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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:21 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
I went to a potluck recently where the host read the ingredients on my bag of Sweet Chili Doritos out loud with disgust. I made a whole foods dish as well but wanted to try the chips BC they are vegan without eating the whole bag. It was uncomfortable and judgemental.

Uh. That's not hospitable. What an asparagus.
When people talk about good v bad food in veganism, I wonder if this is a trap we are especially susceptible to, because many of us have already attached ethical values to our food. I don't eat animal products because I believe it is wrong. I don't think the leap from that to if you eat oreos you are not really vegan or are somehow bad is a logically valid leap. But it seems like for some people (and not just vegans) making one ethically sound choice leads to a whole lot of tangentially related moralizing. I don't know if that makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:33 am 
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It's an interesting thought, I'm not sure however if it's really tangentially related moralizing that's going on but that some people get get really used to restricting foods and find it hard to stop once they've gone down that path. I think Ginny Messina had a post that touched on that:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2009/11/no-ne ... foods.html

Personally as an ethical vegan I find it hard to connect moralizing about not eating animals, with moralizing about healthy choices vs. non-healthy, that makes no sense to me whatsoever. I think it's a bad leap of logic if people are doing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:37 am 
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I don't think I'm the typical vegan but I don't think eating animal products is necessarily wrong, I think it as more as something that is unnecessary and something I can actively avoid doing. I think people in general follow societal norms and pressures and that includes eating animal products. As for other things, I can accept that oreos are vegan and so is broccoli. Not eating one or the other doesn't make you any less vegan than those that don't. And I also think a lot of people have issues with food in general where they try to seek some level of perfectionism but the truth is there is no perfectionism. If you have to worry that every morsel you eat may be good/bad, you may never eat.

We also have people on these boards that aren't vegan as well as kids, spouses, significant others and other people who are close that aren't vegan. That doesn't make those people bad, they just aren't vegan.

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Last edited by linanil on Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:38 am 
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Quarantined wrote:
It's an interesting thought, I'm not sure however if it's really tangentially related moralizing that's going on but that some people get get really used to restricting foods and find it hard to stop once they've gone down that path. I think Ginny Messina had a post that touched on that:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2009/11/no-ne ... foods.html


Yeah, I agree with this entirely.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:42 am 
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oh yeah just to clarify my post I don't think that anyone who does eat animals is wrong or a bad person, I'm definitely not moralizing in that sense. I just meant for my ethical beliefs it would be wrong to eat animals, but I don't think eating unhealthy food is unethical.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:44 am 
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Ha and your response was just quicker than mine, I wasn't talking about your post :) I assume most vegans on this board don't think non-vegans are evil.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:52 am 
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I certainly don't think non-vegans are bad (my long time domestic partner is not vegan), and am sorry if I implied that.

I just think that some vegans might be inclined to attach moral values to food (whether you or i see these values as valid - which I don't) because they already see their food as an ethical choice.

Also some people are not good at nuance, thus are unable to distinguish the difference between saying, for example, that large companies that control the food industry in this country act in unethical ways that are a detriment to people's health vs. people who choose to eat these foods are making bad choices and are morally inferior. (I do not believe the latter, to clarify)


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:56 am 
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I can understand that Olives. Although control of food industry extends beyond Doritos and Oreos. I think agriculture as a whole is in a bad place. I think it is good that people think about what they eat because many don't but I also think you can be caught in a paralysis (similar to what Ginny Messina says) in such a way that you start thinking that everything is bad in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:23 am 
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Problems in the food industry absolutely extend beyond oreos, chips, etc. And I think Ginny Messina's point is spot on.

I guess my overall thought is: it's not my business what others eat. Someone who consistently makes less healthy choices is not morally inferior, nor are they necessarily ignorant. There is a lot of complexity to food availability and choices, and we should all consider that before commenting on other's food.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:36 am 
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linanil wrote:
I assume most vegans on this board don't think non-vegans are evil.


I did one day for a few minutes after getting super sensitive after reading something on Facebook. But after I calmed down I realised that they are only a minority. Most non-vegans are alright!

I'm already dreading going to a friends hen night. It's 2 months away and is going to cost a fortune and I will have to eat out and more than likely all I will get is a plate of chips all day, I can't sleep when I am not at home and I go to bed early because I get so tired with my meds and lack of sleep triggers my depressive symptoms so I am going to be hungry, tired and grumpy. Oh and I have to wear black. Black is so not my colour.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:20 pm 
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allularpunk wrote:
I still felt like he was just saying that my veganism was some thing that could come and go, though, which is what annoyed me the most. So I guess my real peeve is people thinking veganism is just some phase that you get over when life gets complicated.


For some people it is, though. Lots of people go through periods of trying different ways of eating, even, as we have seen, people who profess to be strongly ethical vegans who then dream of eggs and become clean/paleo/local meat preachers or somesuch.

You can't control what other people think about vegans in general or you in particular. You also can't control the twists and turns they use to explain their choices. Just be honest and live your life. (Chanting Be kind, be kind, be kind... in my head sometimes helps).


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Arisaig wrote:
allularpunk wrote:
I still felt like he was just saying that my veganism was some thing that could come and go, though, which is what annoyed me the most. So I guess my real peeve is people thinking veganism is just some phase that you get over when life gets complicated.


For some people it is, though. Lots of people go through periods of trying different ways of eating, even, as we have seen, people who profess to be strongly ethical vegans who then dream of eggs and become clean/paleo/local meat preachers or somesuch.

You can't control what other people think about vegans in general or you in particular. You also can't control the twists and turns they use to explain their choices. Just be honest and live your life. (Chanting Be kind, be kind, be kind... in my head sometimes helps).


Yeah. I just hate when people downplay my ethical choices because of their own decisions or what they've seen others do. This particular person knows how important it is to me, so for him to be so dismissive of it stings a little. I guess it's more about him in particular than other people in general. He made another dig today when a girl we're working with was talking about needing calcium (he had been talking about his 3 year old drinking tons of cow milk) and I mentioned that you can get loads from leafy greens if you didn't like milk (which she doesn't). He said, 'If only my daughter would eat leafy greens' in this sarcastic voice. I wasn't even talking about them! I feel like he thinks I'm being preachy, but I don't think that I am. I offer advice when people want it, but I don't shove anything down anyone's throat. I dunno though, he's been snippy with me a few other times this week, so maybe we're both just tired and sick of being around each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Arisaig wrote:
allularpunk wrote:
I still felt like he was just saying that my veganism was some thing that could come and go, though, which is what annoyed me the most. So I guess my real peeve is people thinking veganism is just some phase that you get over when life gets complicated.


For some people it is, though. Lots of people go through periods of trying different ways of eating, even, as we have seen, people who profess to be strongly ethical vegans who then dream of eggs and become clean/paleo/local meat preachers or somesuch.

You can't control what other people think about vegans in general or you in particular. You also can't control the twists and turns they use to explain their choices. Just be honest and live your life. (Chanting Be kind, be kind, be kind... in my head sometimes helps).


I think this is so wise. When I was pregnant with L, people I had just met would explain to me that I couldn't have a vegan pregnancy - they weren't MDs or medical professionals or trained in nutrition, they were just passing on received wisdom as fact. So I would just smile and thank them for their concern and say that I had tons of friends who were vegan and had had very healthy pregnancies and were raising happy healthy vegan kiddos. Thank goodness for the Playground, as a voice of reason in the face of the inevitable scary stories and misinformation :)

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:12 pm 
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It got real at Whole Foods yesterday.

Triggered peeves:

- When you think a company is all vegan and don't check the ingredients (I know! it's like I just started this yesterday!) and buy, for example, 4 flavors of Sweet Earth burritos to try and only realize when you go to eat one that half of them have dairy.

- People who advocate veganism based on bad/silly info. This guy was in an aisle trying to convince someone to go veg*n. I don't know how the convo started so maybe it was consensual, that's not my issue. He was all "where does the cow get its protein and calcium? Those don't come out of the air, it's from grass! So why not just eat what the cow eats?" And it was all I could do not to jump in and point out that a cow is a ruminant with four stomachs capable of digesting grass, whereas we..aren't. I get the broader point (eat low on the food chain to get those nutrients directly), but it's such an obvious thing to shoot down that it loses credibility.

- Somehow my tub o' spinach I threw in the cart did not make it home with me, even though from the receipt I paid for it. This meant I didn't get to make the dinner salad I'd planned, and since all vegans eat is salad I had to starve.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:39 pm 
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annak wrote:
It got real at Whole Foods
- Somehow my tub o' spinach I threw in the cart did not make it home with me, even though from the receipt I paid for it. This meant I didn't get to make the dinner salad I'd planned, and since all vegans eat is salad I had to starve.

Bring the receipt and tell them what happened, they will totally give you a new one, they have all sorts of customer satisfaction guarantees.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Not getting something you paid for at the grocery store is the worst. Totally screws up whatever you were planning to cook, and driving back sucks. Also, I once didn't get back a fancy $15 reusable grocery bag. I didn't see it in my cart, just assumed it was inside one of the other bags. NOPE.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:49 pm 
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annak wrote:
People who advocate veganism based on bad/silly info. This guy was in an aisle trying to convince someone to go veg*n. I don't know how the convo started so maybe it was consensual, that's not my issue. He was all "where does the cow get its protein and calcium? Those don't come out of the air, it's from grass! So why not just eat what the cow eats?" And it was all I could do not to jump in and point out that a cow is a ruminant with four stomachs capable of digesting grass, whereas we..aren't. I get the broader point (eat low on the food chain to get those nutrients directly), but it's such an obvious thing to shoot down that it loses credibility.


For the last time, you weirdos: I eat grass.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:53 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:13 pm 
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Southwest now only seems to have honey roasted peanuts. Boo.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:32 pm 
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I bought a beautiful embroidered pillow (on clearance!) that I was so excited about. Got it home and read the tag. FEATHERS. FORK YOU.

Returning stuff at Ross is the worst, too. They take down your driver's license number even when you have your receipt. Like a criminal or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:21 am 
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My friend bought me a nice embroidered pillow for a housewarming present when I moved in January, and it ended up being stuffed with feathers. I left it on my couch, but besides the fact that it makes me sad, it's scratchy to lean on and smells super weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:06 am 
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Gross! I had a feather pillow as a kid, and it was always leaking feathers. They'd start poking through the fabric so I'd pull them out and throw them on the floor behind my bed.


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