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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:01 am 
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torque wrote:
exactly, you need to factor in the cultural baggage.
most people will tell you what they think you want to hear, because they want you to be happy. i have BR friends with severe allergies and they never eat outside of the home, point blank. too risky. you don't get an honest answer, you get a hospitable answer.
unless you have someone with you who is also a vegan (same definition of vegan, and same level of commitment) i think there is a certain level of deception that you have to expect.

I don't know if you've seen suco de milho up there. Typical truckstop diner and way-out-in-country drink. It's blended sweet corn and sugar, strained out to be juice. DELISH. At least, that's the way I have always had it made for me. I got some at a truckstop, took a long pull, and BLARK. it was milk. i said to the guy "shiitake man this is milk" and he was like, well sure, it's almost all whole milk, that's how people like it. I said dude, what if i were allergic? he was like "well it's only a little bit of milk powder, you'll be fine." I was in total what the fizzle mode by then and I think Mr T had to lead me out of there before i got violent.

Half the time when you ask if something has milk or cheese, they think you want to hear yes (wholesome!). If you tell them you don't want milk, then they'll tell you there's no milk. I've had people try to convince me that a t-bone steak was actually a vegetarian alternative. It's a cultural thing and i try to be patient with it.


Ha! This happened a lot in Japan too. Wally has a severe cheese allergy (closing up of the airways severe) and he had this conversation in a restaurant once:

- I cannot eat cheese, which items can I have?
- Oh, none of the items on the menu have cheese.
- Really? Because if I eat cheese you will have to call an ambulance.
- (long pause.... ) All of the items on the menu have cheese.

As a result I was often his food taster. If I eat sneaky cheese I get annoyed but at least I don't die.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:41 am 
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This is more of a food sensitivity pet peeve...from a website of a pizza restaurant with a gluten free crust: We roll our traditional dough every day, so all items in our kitchen will be cross contaminated with flour and gluten, including the gluten free crust.

Then why bother offering a gluten free crust if you aren't even going to make an effort to avoid cross contamination? I wouldn't have been so POed by it if they had said "may be" instead of "will be." That just makes it sound like they don't care at all. Sure, cover your butt by saying you don't have a GF kitchen and can't guarantee there won't be cross contamination, but don't tell me that it WILL BE cross contaminated, as if you are going to smear flour all over it just for good measure.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:30 am 
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a clear sign that GF is considered by many, to be some diet, just like veganism. don't forget to cheat sometimes!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:40 am 
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torque wrote:
a clear sign that GF is considered by many, to be some diet, just like veganism. don't forget to cheat sometimes!


Well I think that is the biggest issue celiac people have because the influx in gluten free as a diet has resulted in gluten cross contamination not being thought of as an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:17 pm 
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That kind of reminds me of this time I was reading the comments on a vegan cake recipe and this woman said that she went out and bought all of these fancy ingredients and made this really awesome cake for her vegan friend but that she ended up making a butter cream frosting with dairy butter and covering the cake with it (and her vegan friend said that was okay). What was the point in making the vegan cake???

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:37 pm 
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More importantly, why did she need fancy ingredients to make a vegan cake??

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:58 pm 
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It was a tropical cake so it called for some more expensive ingredients. I think she may have went the whole organic route, though, too for some reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Oh, that makes sense! But yeah, going to all that trouble to make a vegan cake, then putting non-vegan icing on, makes no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:21 pm 
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aelle wrote:
Ha! This happened a lot in Japan too. Wally has a severe cheese allergy (closing up of the airways severe) and he had this conversation in a restaurant once:

- I cannot eat cheese, which items can I have?
- Oh, none of the items on the menu have cheese.
- Really? Because if I eat cheese you will have to call an ambulance.
- (long pause.... ) All of the items on the menu have cheese.

As a result I was often his food taster. If I eat sneaky cheese I get annoyed but at least I don't die.

This would be sort of hilarious, if it wasn't so infuriating. I get super, mega upset when people lie to me about food, I just take it so personally.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:38 pm 
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A lot of cultures will tell you what you want to hear to make you happy. It is annoying for the food (and dangerous if you're allergic like Wally!) but also makes directions infuriating, because no one will tell you that they don't know where X is, they'll make something up. It happened so often in Morocco :) I was literally wandering around the medina with people assuring me that the place I wanted was just around that corner :)

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:56 pm 
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In Japan a westerner's girlfriend told me there was a vegan buffet at the Osaka JR station. I was STARVING so I found it and loaded up. What I thought was coleslaw or a finely shredded kinpira was actually those tiny little fishies with their eyes staring at you. It was kind of revolting.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:01 pm 
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linanil wrote:
torque wrote:
a clear sign that GF is considered by many, to be some diet, just like veganism. don't forget to cheat sometimes!


Well I think that is the biggest issue celiac people have because the influx in gluten free as a diet has resulted in gluten cross contamination not being thought of as an issue.


Totally. I gained weight when I went GF. Just like when I went vegan. I think some people apply the nametag "gluten free" to their low-carb diets, which only adds to the issue. I'm cool with carbs! Just not wheat, barley, or rye. ;)

There is a restaurant here with a GF menu, featuring beer cheese...made with...non-GF beer. Eh? Needless to say I won't go there, because if they're willing to put that on their GF menu, there's no telling what else they're dong.

It takes weeks to get over accidentally eating it, I don't even want to know what a "cheat day" would be like!

Frustrating because I'm so sick of feeling like I have to cook every single thing I eat, or else spend a zillion dollars on Amy's meals, or eat black bean enchiladas from TJ's all day.

My husband shrugged the pizza restaurant thing off with, "Well they do use flour." Yeah but seriously, an effort can be made...plenty of other places do it successfully. P's me off when it's like they don't even want to make an effort. The Domino's disclaimer kind of reads this way too, but my small-town local store does a good job doing what they can to avoid cross contamination -- making an effort with clean gloves, a clean apron, a clean spoon/pan/cutter...totally not hard and gets you a return customer. Not making an effort probably means you won't sell many GF crusts...which is why I don't get having that attitude.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:51 pm 
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I had Jamba Juice's oatmeal with brown sugar today and I thought the sugar tasted kind of funky. I googled and found out they use a "brown sugar crumble", which includes dairy. Damn it! What's wrong with plain ol' brown sugar on oatmeal???

I've always thought it was a little strange tasting but it only occurred to me today that the weird flavor could be coming from dairy.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:23 pm 
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I swear the peanut butter cookie Luna bars used to be vegan.

The one I bought today had "contains traces of milk" on the wrapper in the allergen information - I checked sort of idly and was like WHAT. I feel like that's different from "may contain traces of milk" - but then also milk wasn't listed in any of the ingredients that I could tell! Maybe it's the mysterious "natural flavors." The ingredients on their website don't say "contains traces of milk."

I guess my pet peeve is that I don't understand labeling. I'm peeved, at any rate!


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:36 pm 
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madeleine, I wonder if it is just a change in wording and nothing has actually changed in the product or processing. i.e. not an actual product change but a CYA/lawyer-recommended change.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:39 pm 
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madeleine.teacup wrote:
I swear the peanut butter cookie Luna bars used to be vegan.

The one I bought today had "contains traces of milk" on the wrapper in the allergen information - I checked sort of idly and was like WHAT. I feel like that's different from "may contain traces of milk" - but then also milk wasn't listed in any of the ingredients that I could tell! Maybe it's the mysterious "natural flavors." The ingredients on their website don't say "contains traces of milk."

I guess my pet peeve is that I don't understand labeling. I'm peeved, at any rate!


Weird, I used to buy those before I knew I was allergic to peanuts. It's probably a legal thing, because I doubt natural flavors would be "traces" so much as actual milk product.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:55 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
I had Jamba Juice's oatmeal with brown sugar today and I thought the sugar tasted kind of funky. I googled and found out they use a "brown sugar crumble", which includes dairy. Damn it! What's wrong with plain ol' brown sugar on oatmeal???

I've always thought it was a little strange tasting but it only occurred to me today that the weird flavor could be coming from dairy.


sorry, but this is one of my vegan pet peeves: when vegans claim they can "taste the dairy" in products that are not obviously dairy, even if it's just "may contain traces of". how funky could brown sugar crumble taste? it's brown sugar. it's not going to be made to taste like dairy, it's made to taste like brown sugar.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:42 pm 
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madeleine.teacup wrote:
I swear the peanut butter cookie Luna bars used to be vegan.

The one I bought today had "contains traces of milk" on the wrapper in the allergen information - I checked sort of idly and was like WHAT. I feel like that's different from "may contain traces of milk" - but then also milk wasn't listed in any of the ingredients that I could tell! Maybe it's the mysterious "natural flavors." The ingredients on their website don't say "contains traces of milk."

I guess my pet peeve is that I don't understand labeling. I'm peeved, at any rate!


I contacted them once about their chocolate chip cookie bar, which says the same thing but doesn't have any obvious non-vegan ingredients. They said that their chocolate chips are processed in a plant where they also process dairy chocolate chips. So because of the possible contamination issue, they have that warning. I imagine it's the same kind of thing with the peanut butter cookie one; although, I agree that the wording does make it confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:27 pm 
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biorobotics wrote:
couroupita wrote:
I had Jamba Juice's oatmeal with brown sugar today and I thought the sugar tasted kind of funky. I googled and found out they use a "brown sugar crumble", which includes dairy. Damn it! What's wrong with plain ol' brown sugar on oatmeal???

I've always thought it was a little strange tasting but it only occurred to me today that the weird flavor could be coming from dairy.


sorry, but this is one of my vegan pet peeves: when vegans claim they can "taste the dairy" in products that are not obviously dairy, even if it's just "may contain traces of". how funky could brown sugar crumble taste? it's brown sugar. it's not going to be made to taste like dairy, it's made to taste like brown sugar.



I don't claim that I can always 'taste the dairy' (as I have made mistakes, especially when it comes to milk), but I do know that I can immediately taste when there is butter even in small amounts in many things.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:36 pm 
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We go to a diner that serves vegan options and they bring you your soy milk in the same silver pitchers as they bring dairy milk in. And even my omni partner can smell the slightly sour smell of dairy, when I get nervous that maybe they brought us dairy instead of soy.

I do think that dairy has a pretty distinct taste and butter has a distinct taste and mouthfeel. Not saying that I could taste a bit of whey that is the 50th ingredient in a piece of processed food, but I can definitely imagine having couroupita's experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:54 pm 
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I don't know, if it was a crumble, I imagine the dairy was butter. Butter stands out a ton to me in dishes. It just coats your mouth in a super weird way that other things don't. I've had dishes where the vegetables where fried in butter (after them swearing they just used oil) and after a bite or two I can definitely tell something is off, even of their isn't exactly a butter flavor.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:00 am 
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biorobotics wrote:
couroupita wrote:
I had Jamba Juice's oatmeal with brown sugar today and I thought the sugar tasted kind of funky. I googled and found out they use a "brown sugar crumble", which includes dairy. Damn it! What's wrong with plain ol' brown sugar on oatmeal???

I've always thought it was a little strange tasting but it only occurred to me today that the weird flavor could be coming from dairy.


sorry, but this is one of my vegan pet peeves: when vegans claim they can "taste the dairy" in products that are not obviously dairy, even if it's just "may contain traces of". how funky could brown sugar crumble taste? it's brown sugar. it's not going to be made to taste like dairy, it's made to taste like brown sugar.

Errrr, sorry if I'm your pet peeve. Good grief! It tasted like butter. Butter has a very distinctive flavor. I think you should give people the benefit of the doubt.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:49 am 
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Yeah, I taste dairy and eggs (and alcohol/fermentation) crazily quickly. Of course I can't taste "traces of" but it's been a handy tool for restaurants and coffee shops. Butter especially has a very distinct taste.It always tastes a bit "rotten" to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:28 am 
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biorobotics wrote:
couroupita wrote:
I had Jamba Juice's oatmeal with brown sugar today and I thought the sugar tasted kind of funky. I googled and found out they use a "brown sugar crumble", which includes dairy. Damn it! What's wrong with plain ol' brown sugar on oatmeal???

I've always thought it was a little strange tasting but it only occurred to me today that the weird flavor could be coming from dairy.


sorry, but this is one of my vegan pet peeves: when vegans claim they can "taste the dairy" in products that are not obviously dairy, even if it's just "may contain traces of". how funky could brown sugar crumble taste? it's brown sugar. it's not going to be made to taste like dairy, it's made to taste like brown sugar.


Whoa. Out of line, biorobotics.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegan pet peeves
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:30 am 
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I would also agree that butter has a very distinct flavour. I get what you are saying when it's trace amounts, but a crumble made with brown sugar and butter? Yeah that would have a certain taste.

And couroupita, how annoying! Why can't they just put regular ol' brown sugar on the oatmeal?!

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