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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:53 am 
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Too many buzzwords.
I jump through how many hoops?
Give me the damn job.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:15 pm 
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What could you possibly write about for 2-3 pages in a cover letter? That's absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:51 pm 
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I know. It's dumb. Also I have to fill out an application along with my resume and cover letter.

I bet the main purpose is to reduce the number of applicants. It seems like most nonprofit jobs (the field I'm applying in) here get 200-300 applicants--if you add some hoops it narrows that number down and makes the applications easier to deal with.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:06 pm 
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I can understand asking for a resume, cover letter and application but a 2-3 page cover letter? Who are these people and why do they have so much time to read cover letters?

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Well I probably shouldn't actually say who it is or link to it or anything...it is a super cool organization I would really love to work for though. Powering through.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:17 pm 
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It will probably work in your favor. It will definitely weed out the people who aren't serious.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Oh I wasn't trying to say you should blast their name out, it just seems ridiculous that people would have time to read a 2-3 page cover letter. Cover letter should be 1-2 paragraphs max.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:33 am 
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It's super hard to stay positive and motivated when the very first thing you see when you check your email at 6am is a rejection letter. Maybe I don't even want to work for a stupid company that sends rejection letters in the middle of the night. Go home to to your family, you workaholic jerk! (I need a job so bad)


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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:01 pm 
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I just got the agenda for my (2 hour!) interview on Friday. 45 minutes with the person who would be my immediate boss and someone in the job title I am applying for, then a 15 minute break in which I try not to vomit from nerves, then another 45 minutes with the Senior VP of the division and another person at the same level as the one who would be my immediate boss, and finally a 15 minute debrief with the HR recruiter that I phone interviewed with last week. Followed by more vomiting, probably. I have never, ever had a 2 hour, 5 person job interview. But I got new shoes today, so I can strut in there and fake it until I make it.

My manager offered me a position he'd sort of duct-taped and chicken-wired together in an effort to keep me here, mostly doing what I've been doing, and sortofpossiblyhopefullybutinnowayguaranteed making what I've been making. It's a little sketchy, possibly not possible at all, somewhat flattering, but not at all appealing. Now that I have had a couple of weeks to accept the fact that I am moving on, I am starting to see the upsides of getting laid off. No more horrible sort-of boss bully, and if I can find something fast enough, severance that I can take as a lump sum and pay off some bills. If Friday's interview bombs, I might kick myself for telling him no thanks, but he did say I don't have to decide right away.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Fingers and (monkey)toes crossed for your interview!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:36 pm 
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That sounds a lot like they are planning to make an offer, monkey toes! Especially the final debrief with HR.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:45 pm 
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It does sound like a big commitment of resources for someone they are not terribly sure about hiring. But the interview process so far has just been a 30 minute phone interview with HR, so I don't know how they could be anywhere close to thinking about making an offer...

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:51 pm 
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monkeytoes wrote:
It does sound like a big commitment of resources for someone they are not terribly sure about hiring. But the interview process so far has just been a 30 minute phone interview with HR, so I don't know how they could be anywhere close to thinking about making an offer...


If they put a lot of weight on BB's recommendation and you knocked the phone interview out, could happen. This just sounds a lot like what the oil companies do as a "good fit" interview after they are already 80% sure they will offer. Or between 2 candidates. Either way, it sounds awesome! Go you!

I've had big panel interviews before, but I've never gone to HR a second time unless an offer was imminent. Teaching could be different--certainly that process has its own oddities.

Good luck to everybody in the job search. Hurrah for at least getting rejection letters though. I k ow they suck, but teaching positions never give them. I interviewed two or three times at schools and then nothing. They don't send letters or emails, and will not return messages. They just decide you aren't worth their time and you go into a black hole of rejection and uncertainty. This is especially evil since you often interview a month or more before hiring decisions. I don't really understand it. By the time you go for a THIRD interview, how many candidates could there be? It would take 30 seconds to pop out a form email.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:40 pm 
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WWPPKD?

I have had two (successful and good!) interviews with a company and I really want the job. My last interview was last Tuesday, at which point they said they had a good feeling about me and I should expect to hear their decision by early-to-mid next week. So, that's past now, is it bad for to follow up and see if there has been any movement in decision-making? It's driving me nuts not knowing! They said they let candidates know either way.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:26 pm 
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I know it's torturous, but I would probably leave it for this week. Things come up, people get busy with other things. But I'll think good thoughts for you PP!!

(Disclaimer: I'm not in HR or anything like that, so maybe others have different advice)

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:28 pm 
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I would definitely follow up! Did you send a thank you email or card? I would send an email just following up and thank them again for meeting with you (insert nice thing about company, how you agree with their mission or it's a good fit) and tell them that you look forward to hearing from them.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:45 pm 
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This probably varies by culture, but here at least Friday wouldn't be the best day to follow up. People want to leave early. I'd send an email Monday, maybe late morning / early afternoon, reiterating your thanks for the interview and inviting them to contact you again if they want further information.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Well, I couldn't wait, so I sent off a little note to the HR manager, and she wrote me back quite promptly thanking me for my continued interest and that they will be making a decision tomorrow. Whew! Thanks for the advice, guys!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:34 pm 
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strawberryrock wrote:
I know. It's dumb. Also I have to fill out an application along with my resume and cover letter.

I bet the main purpose is to reduce the number of applicants. It seems like most nonprofit jobs (the field I'm applying in) here get 200-300 applicants--if you add some hoops it narrows that number down and makes the applications easier to deal with.


They may also be trying to weed out people that can't write/communicate effectively. I used to work in a technical position that required a lot of communication with other departments - several people we hired could handle the tech side but were terrible communicators. They started asking for a 1 page cover letter outlining your experience and how it related to the position - it was mostly a writing test to see that they could be coherent, clear, concise, etc. Reading those letters - I was shocked at incoherence of many of them...

But I also think you're right - they are probably trying to narrow it down to serious applicants.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:08 pm 
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I am just so exhausted of applying to jobs.

I think I've applied for around 30-40 at this point? Something like that. I hate it. And I can't pay my bills with my part-time job so I am going to drain my (small) savings within a few months and I don't have a plan for after that. Sometimes I just don't understand how people make it work.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:36 am 
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Ok, I'm new to this looking for work in the age of the internet thing. The last time I was on the job market was in the late 90s when everything was done by post. So I'm wondering, when sending a CV and cover letter via e-mail, do you send the cover letter as the body of your e-mail with the CV as attachment or do you send them both as attachments? And if the latter, what are you expected to write in the body of your email?

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:20 am 
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I wouldn't *not* hire someone over this, but when I was reviewing resumes for a position on our team I found it really annoying when candidates sent two separate attachments (one for the cover letter, one for the resume). When you have a lot of applications to go through, it was nice when they were combined into one file.

Also, I would suggest making sure your cover letter is with the resume and not just in the email, because after I went through and short-listed some candidates, I passed on those files. It would have been annoying to have to print off an email and staple it to the resume. Some candidates included their cover letter both in the email and as an attachment, some just had a very brief email like "I am writing for job X, please find my cover letter and resume attached." I'm not sure which approach is "right."

I'm not in HR and I've only been involved in reviewing applications once, so my opinions are probably not that valid.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:22 am 
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When I was in recruiting here in DE we used to receive an email with CV and cover letter attached. That was we can print the attachments and give them to the manager. The email text was something like "Dear HR, I would like to apply for position X, please find attached CV and cover. Looking forward to hear from you, best regards".
But it might be different in other places.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:56 am 
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Wow, good luck to everyone applying for jobs! What kind of work do you do, strawberryrock? (sorry if it is mentioned up thread, having browser difficulties)

It is crazy how different job applications are. I applied for one last week that wanted two two-page essay responses about my experience in certain areas in addition to a web-based application and my resume. I just got a notification that I'm ranked #9 for further consideration, but I have no idea how many people applied or how many make it to the interview stage. According to the site it could be 3-12 months before I hear anything, but I'm hoping it is sooner than that...

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 Post subject: Re: I'm looking for a job.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:18 am 
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lobsteriffic wrote:
I wouldn't *not* hire someone over this, but when I was reviewing resumes for a position on our team I found it really annoying when candidates sent two separate attachments (one for the cover letter, one for the resume). When you have a lot of applications to go through, it was nice when they were combined into one file.

Also, I would suggest making sure your cover letter is with the resume and not just in the email, because after I went through and short-listed some candidates, I passed on those files. It would have been annoying to have to print off an email and staple it to the resume. Some candidates included their cover letter both in the email and as an attachment, some just had a very brief email like "I am writing for job X, please find my cover letter and resume attached." I'm not sure which approach is "right."

I'm not in HR and I've only been involved in reviewing applications once, so my opinions are probably not that valid.


Still helpful! Thanks! I'm sending open applications at this point rather than replying to ads, so I don't suspect they'll have a lot of applications to go through at once. But I definitely want to make it easier for whoever gets my CV to print and review it.

Anek wrote:
When I was in recruiting here in DE we used to receive an email with CV and cover letter attached. That was we can print the attachments and give them to the manager. The email text was something like "Dear HR, I would like to apply for position X, please find attached CV and cover. Looking forward to hear from you, best regards".
But it might be different in other places.


Huh... interesting. I wonder if this is one of those situations where the standard is different in N. American and Europe. Will have to check some Belgian job sites to see what is preferred here.

Thanks lobsteriffic and Anek!

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