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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:45 am 
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TurningVioletViolet wrote:
I once watched an interview with Giselle (the model) and she was showing some lingerie. And I said ohhhh so it's not pronounced "lon-jer-ray" (with the French 'j' sound). Everyone I know, and store departments and tv ads etc say lon-jer-ray. But it's not, is it? And then I thought but if I pronounce it the correct way people will laugh and think I have it soooooo wrong. But Giselle, she'd know how to pronounce all manner of clothing, right?

When I was younger I ordered a 'strawberry dye-query". And my vegan friend used to talk about eating 'kwin-oh-a'. And when I was much younger I thought facsmile was "fassiml'.

How do you say kecap manis? I've always said ke-chup mahnis but a friend says ke-kup mahnis.



Gisele is also Brazilian not French so she may have her own accent.
i always feel like she sounds German and not Brazilian. at least she doesnt sound like any of the Brazilians i know.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
dukka (that Ethiopian nutty seedy dippy stuff new at Trader Joe's. There is also a recipe in VEW.) Is it duck-a, so the first part sounds like a water bird, or duke-a so the first part sounds like the husband of a duchess, or something else?

bisteeya (Moroccan filo pie, also in VEW)

Ok, while I'm on a how-to-pronounce VEW recipes:

ful medames

and tonight I'll be making
char siu seitan bao (Chinese steamed seitan bbq buns.)

Arabic phonology can be tricky.
For the Egyptian dukka, the u sound is pronounced like oo in "book". The kk is actually a glottal stop which is similar to the sound at the end of the words "not", "cat", and "yet" when you say them casually. This glottal stop also applies itself to both syllables of the word (at the end of the first syllable and at the beginning of the second syllable). So if we denote the u in dukka as oo (as in "book") and we denote the glottal stop as an apostrophe, the pronunciation would be: doo' - 'uh

Bisteeya, I've heard two different pronunciations by Moroccans, both have emphasis on the second syllable. The more common one I've heard is: bus - Tee - la
The other is: bus - Teey - ya (the y sound is at the end of the second syll and at the beginning of the thrid syll, like the glottal stop in dukka above). In both pronunciations, the t sound is not the t sound we are familiar with from English--it's a deeper sound, if that makes sense. However, saying it with the normal t sound is perfectly acceptable and probably rather chic as it is a Spanish loanword.

Ful Medames is not too hard.
Ful is, as fruitbat said, pronounced like fool (the l sound is actually not like English l sound, but no biggy)
medames in standard Arabic is pronounced: moo - dem - mess *Emphasis on second syllable.
In everyday colloquial Arabic, especially in the Levant, it is pronounced: m - dem - mess *Emphasis on second syllable.

If there are any more Middle Eastern food words, throw them this way lol.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Jallab. I know I'm pronouncing it wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
ful medames

The phonetic transcription off of Wikipedia for it is [fuːl meˈdæmmes], so "fool made a mess" (as in "I pity da fool who made a mess") is probably not too far off the bat. The da bit is stressed.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
Jallab. I know I'm pronouncing it wrong.

There is that different l sound again! I think if you pronounce the l sound as you normally would, that is with the tip of the tongue pressed firmly against the back of the two front teeth, you will feel a depression in the center of your tongue. Now keep saying the l sound while trying to flatten out that depression, while keeping the tip of the tongue in place. Go back and forth between the sounds to get the differentiation. That is the l sound in "jallab".
Therefore a close approximation of pronunciation would be: gel - lab *emphasis on the second syllable. lab as in "laboratory".

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:36 pm 
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TurningVioletViolet wrote:

How do you say kecap manis? I've always said ke-chup mahnis but a friend says ke-kup mahnis.


You're right. It's ke-chap mah-nis. In Dutch it's spelled "ketjap manis" and "tj" in Dutch is very close to the "ch" in English.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:09 pm 
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I thought it was "fool med-DOMM-us."

Anyway, ful medames, shame on you...

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:52 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
i always feel like she sounds German and not Brazilian. at least she doesnt sound like any of the Brazilians i know.

You know, when she speaks in PT ads here her accent is very carefully neutral, and not a southern brazilian accent (where she's from), and so i suspect german was her first language. There have been some exposes about the german-heritage models from that part of the country (and ukrainian and russian and polish) and they often don't learn Portuguese til (unless) they go to school.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:44 pm 
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Exposes about german-heritage models? I am intrigued.

I pronounce ful medames the way mr. zaatar says (colloquial version) and this is the way I've heard it in Israel as well, although generally people there just say ful. Never seen it spelled with vowels in Hebrew, so not sure what the "official" pronunciation might be there.

Bisteeya is a bastardization of pastilla, no? I always just say pastilla (spanish ll).


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:22 pm 
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And here I've been saying "full may-dom"

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Gulliver wrote:
Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
ful medames

The phonetic transcription off of Wikipedia for it is [fuːl meˈdæmmes], so "fool made a mess" (as in "I pity da fool who made a mess") is probably not too far off the bat. The da bit is stressed.

Thanks, I'll always remember how to pronounce it now!
Mr.zaatar, thanks for all the help!

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:56 pm 
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Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
char siu seitan bao (Chinese steamed seitan bbq buns.)


I'm pretty positive it's Cantonese, so I'm not 100% on pronunciation, but I think it's pronounced 'cha siew.' Maybe someone more knowledgeable can verify!


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:43 pm 
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hyperbole was one i used to struggle with. i already know (now) how to say it, but i thought i'd share coz i was getting around saying HYper-bowl. when in fact it is hy-PER-boh-lee. you're wecome ;P


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:33 am 
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Do you pronounce humus and hummus differently? I got a blank stare yesterday when I said I had veggies with hummus for lunch... ok, my colleague never heard of hummus, but still... is there a difference?

ETA: And eventhough I am the weirdo vegan at work, I hope she didnt think I put soil on my carrots.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:50 am 
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i say humus, HUE-mus and hummus HO-mus.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:58 am 
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Ariann wrote:
Exposes about german-heritage models? I am intrigued.

there's occasional flap-flap about why Brazil exports/showcases white models and not people of color. this old NYT article talks a bit about it. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/world ... .html?_r=0
i read another one about the desperate poverty some of these girls were coming from; my niece is a model in Japan (she's Japanese-Brazilian) and she was saying that the other Brazilian models that she knew here in BR and abroad were often from really humble backgrounds and never even went to school, they were scooped up young and taken abroad- where they often made some (unsurprisingly) bad choices and ended up in bad situations. Very sad, really.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:26 am 
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an appendix:
i just went back and watched the video on that page, which i recommend highly. i don't live in that part of the south, but my area is very similar, racial-makeup wise (we have more italians, japanese and ukrainians though) and geography-wise. Everybody in the video has the typical southern accent.
it occurred to me that i've never heard gisele speak outside of an ad and i did a search- even in interviews her speech is pretty standard Braz PT, with no real southern accent (or german accent, as can be heard in some of the voices in the video). But search tells me that she left Brazil at 14, and that she did voice coaching to reduce her accent in English, which leaves an accent that's hard to explain but distinctive- the vowels that are usually the big problem for Brazilians are reduced, but the consonant issues usually stay the same {the other model in the video also seems to have had voice coaching, her Braz accent is not the typical one either}

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:58 am 
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Ariann wrote:
I had no idea there was any other way to say lingerie (lon-je-ray). But also, it matters to me not at all our loan words are pronounced in their original languages. Lingerie in French is now a different word than lingerie in English. We've had the word long enough that it's an English word with an English pronunciation now.


totally. Same with ménage à trois.

[maynajatwa] ?

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Ok, how do you all say "basil"?

I say "baa-sil" (short a) and never really thought anything of it until my coworker and I were talking about that particular plant, and he looked at me like I had two heads and said you mean "bay-sil?" (long a)

Is "bay-sil" more of an American way of saying it? I think I've picked up a bunch of more typically European pronunciations from my BF whose mom is German and dad is English. Like I say "meh-sure" for measure, and the rest of my family says "may-sure" which kind of drives me nuts. My mom also says "cue-pon" instead of "coo-pon" which sounds weird to me now even though I probably grew up saying it that way too.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:26 pm 
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my brit friends say basil with the short a (like cattle).

the may-sure thing is lovely- many of my quaker friends have charming little peculiarity, which makes me think of pennsylvania, amish country, quaker meeting and good times.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:42 pm 
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torque wrote:
my brit friends say basil with the short a (like cattle).

the may-sure thing is lovely- many of my quaker friends have charming little peculiarity, which makes me think of pennsylvania, amish country, quaker meeting and good times.


Yeah, I guess the short a is a Brit thing I've unconsciously adopted.

Huh, that's funny. My parents grew up in various locations but have lived in PA for years sort of close to Amish country, so maybe they've gotten may-sure from there.

I find it very fascinating how pronunciations vary regionally...


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:43 pm 
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my mom is from just-barely-upstate new york (pearl river, new city) and has some odd things like adding an R to idea ("idear"), or occasionally almost the PA-ish R in wash ("warsh"). i have no idea where on earth she got these things from.

i love to keep reviving the old anti-brooklyn brooklyn accent where "oi" is "er" ("terlet" for toilet, "erl" for oil). This accent is so old and dear to me, I can't just let it die with my grandparents. Of course, it's jokingly spoken in my house, but one day my kid will hear someone speaking it and will say "GramGram used to talk like that! [and we took the peas out of her]"

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:57 pm 
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mandycoot wrote:
Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
char siu seitan bao (Chinese steamed seitan bbq buns.)


I'm pretty positive it's Cantonese, so I'm not 100% on pronunciation, but I think it's pronounced 'cha siew.' Maybe someone more knowledgeable can verify!


Yep, it's Cantonese (I usually think of it in Mandarin, which would be cha shao bao).

My first thought was, "Well, it's pronounced just like it's spelled." Then I had the damnedest time trying to figure out how to represent it phonetically. Cha is pronounced ... well, cha. Like you dance the cha cha. Siu, the i is a long e, as in bee, and the u a long u, as in cool. Sort of like "see you" but smoothly and without the y. Bao kind of rhymes with cow, but more of a smooth ah-oh.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Pyewacket wrote:
mandycoot wrote:
Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
char siu seitan bao (Chinese steamed seitan bbq buns.)


I'm pretty positive it's Cantonese, so I'm not 100% on pronunciation, but I think it's pronounced 'cha siew.' Maybe someone more knowledgeable can verify!


Yep, it's Cantonese (I usually think of it in Mandarin, which would be cha shao bao).

My first thought was, "Well, it's pronounced just like it's spelled." Then I had the damnedest time trying to figure out how to represent it phonetically. Cha is pronounced ... well, cha. Like you dance the cha cha. Siu, the i is a long e, as in bee, and the u a long u, as in cool. Sort of like "see you" but smoothly and without the y. Bao kind of rhymes with cow, but more of a smooth ah-oh.

I never knew how to pronounce this so I always called ChaSiuBao (erika Soyf*cker's former ppk username) by the initials CSB

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 Post subject: Re: How do you pronounce (insert word here)?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:57 pm 
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I say it "bay-sil," "baa-sil" is a guys name (like Basil Liddell Hart).

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