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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:52 am 
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Exactly, and to this end you can just as easily replace "kids" with "new boyfriend" or "hobby."

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:54 am 
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just let her know that you'll be there in a few years when she's ready to have friends again. (you know, the "if you love someone set them free" kind of thing?) maybe she won't come back, maybe she will. don't hold out hope, of course, but don't hold a grudge and show hostility if she does decide to come back. (but then people change. maybe she'll have made mommy friends, and wouldn't feel comfortable or even need the old friendship anymore. it's okay! just look fondly on the point in your life where you had each other, and move on yourself.)
and then find new child-free friends who had been abandoned by their old friends, and fill each others' friend-shaped holes. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:03 pm 
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supercarrot wrote:
just let her know that you'll be there in a few years when she's ready to have friends again. (you know, the "if you love someone set them free" kind of thing?) maybe she won't come back, maybe she will. don't hold out hope, of course, but don't hold a grudge and show hostility if she does decide to come back. (but then people change. maybe she'll have made mommy friends, and wouldn't feel comfortable or even need the old friendship anymore. it's okay! just look fondly on the point in your life where you had each other, and move on yourself.)
and then find new child-free friends who had been abandoned by their old friends, and fill each others' friend-shaped holes. :-)


I love this. Very wise supercarrot.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:42 pm 
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When I'm old I plan to be sitting on the porch eating cinnamon rolls with jilly, linanil and lycophyte.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:43 pm 
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And meeeeeeeee! (And torque's awesome sriracha rolls!)

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:46 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
When I'm old I plan to be sitting on the porch eating cinnamon rolls with jilly, linanil and lycophyte.


This should be a thing for the PPKommune on that tropical pig island.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:50 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
When I'm old I plan to be sitting on the porch eating cinnamon rolls with jilly, linanil and lycophyte.


That is how we do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:55 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
It irks me on the facebookery that I'm getting ads for baby stuff in addition to the diet stuff. It's a pretty minor pet peeve but I just don't need to see pictures of organic baby socks and whatnot. I changed my gender to male, so I wonder if that will stop that nonsense. It is pretty stupid to even have to choose a gender (and why only male/female?).

I need to figure out if there's a way to get adblock on my smartphone since I don't use my computer to look at fb.


There is some app that you can use to add to FB to make it gender neutral...http://genderqueerid.com/post/403915685 ... ettings-to

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:56 pm 
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lobsteriffic wrote:
pandacookie wrote:
When I'm old I plan to be sitting on the porch eating cinnamon rolls with jilly, linanil and lycophyte.


This should be a thing for the PPKommune on that tropical pig island.


Or some damn where. PPKommune now!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:54 pm 
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lycophyte wrote:
lobsteriffic wrote:
pandacookie wrote:
When I'm old I plan to be sitting on the porch eating cinnamon rolls with jilly, linanil and lycophyte.


This should be a thing for the PPKommune on that tropical pig island.


Or some damn where. PPKommune now!


Please?

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:40 pm 
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Of course people can prioritize relationships however they want, but it does suck when people blow you off because of kids, but still expect you to be a friend. Also, it's sort of short sighted- one of my favorite, closest friends and his partner had a wonderful, awesome baby who I love, love, love earlier this year. They have a great community of friends who organized all sorts of stuff to help them- like dinner every night for the first month of parenthood. It was great, because we all got to meet the kiddo, and our friends got some low-stress socialization. Also, they are awesome people who wanted to know stuff about friends lives and not just talk about the baby (everyone else wanted to talk about the baby, of course.)
My partner's sister and husband similarly have used their baby as a reason to invite people into their lives, rather than closing off. I know there are a lot of great ways to have a family, and I don't want to judge, but it seems to me that managing relationships in a way that fosters more support for you and your child is a smart idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Exactly, Olives. In the case of my friend, I still wanted to be her friend if she has kids and I don't. She's basically saying that she doesn't feel the same way.

I think it's fair to offer that advice, supercarrot, but I can't say I completely agree. I would be irritated if someone blew me off as a friend no matter what the reason - like someone else said, it could be a new hobby or a new boyfriend or whatever.

As for the "mommy friends" thing... You should be friends with someone because you like them, not because they have kids and so do you. I'd like to think that I have room in my life for all kinds of people. I guess we'll see what happens. But I'm less inclined to want to be her friend now since there is basically an imposed time limit on the whole thing. Plus, people need friends. Yeah, being a new parent is work, but you need adult relationships that center on things other than children. I fundamentally believe this.

I'm also not super good at making new friends so it's not like I can just be like, "oh well, let's go get a new pal!"


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:51 pm 
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One of my fears about having kids is that people will make the assumption I don't have time for them, or that I'm going to be boring and family oriented only. I don't think its right to the kid to exclude your friends like that, personally, because it seems if you change your life that much for the kid its just going to end up super spoiled. It sends a message that the only thing that matters to you in life is the kid, and if they get that message, it does not bode well for their socalization with other people where they are expected to act like everyone else, and not the most important thing ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Gee Whiz! Some people with kids (I would say most) are just friggin' tired and they don't have the energy for socializing. And many couples would like time alone with one another. The child is always there and time alone as a couple is precious. Some people are more introverted and with a kid always there maybe they don't want a house full of people. Some people see their home as a sanctuary from the world and don't want a bunch of folk, no matter how well meaning, traipsing through. This is the very reason I started the introvert support thread. A large number of people can't seem to accept that some people may want to do something other than spending time with them. Heaven forbid you're not the centre of all your friends' universes. Just because you have a few friends with kids who have tonnes of energy and are extremely extroverted and love having friends drop in whenever, don't assume everyone is like that or should be like that.

Although I don't have children, this attitude towards people who have children who choose not to fall all over themselves to share their precious free time with their childfree friends are really starting to tick me off.

Maybe they didn't like you that much to begin with and the kid is their excuse. Maybe they weren't that good a friend to you either. Jesus! People change. Get the fork over it.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:22 pm 
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1. Do not tell anyone to 'get the fork over it' ever, please see the rules for whichever one is about being awesome.
2. I've already said in this thread that I was personally hurt by the scenario of someone dropping me after she had kids, not even inviting me over to watch tv anymore when she lived mere blocks away. Maybe she didn't really like me, maybe she wasn't a good friend, but that doesn't make my feelings any less hurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:48 pm 
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lycophyte wrote:
lobsteriffic wrote:
pandacookie wrote:
When I'm old I plan to be sitting on the porch eating cinnamon rolls with jilly, linanil and lycophyte.


This should be a thing for the PPKommune on that tropical pig island.


Or some damn where. PPKommune now!


It has absolutely GOT to be on Pig Island.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Before i had a kid i used to think i'd be the type of parent who would somehow still maintain a life outside my kid. but i've found that to be impossible. mainly because i also work full time. so the few hours i have off i need to spend teaching my kid things and having quality time with him. i feel terrible that i don't give my old childless friends enough attention, and in turn they have stopped calling me. i want to have more friends very badly but just don't seem to have the resources to make it happen.

also as far as watching tv - it is tough as a parent because the american academy of pediatrics et. al. say you shouldn't let your kids watch more than 2 hrs of age-appropriate tv a day. so if you want to watch your own parent shows, that only happens after the kid goes to bed - and for me by that time i'm totally exhausted and fall asleep before i even finish a board on candy crush, nevermind watch a whole 30 min of tv.

all in all for me i love parenthood, but have definitely found that when this kid was born it is no longer about me. i brought this life onto the planet and the responsibility of that is so huge, i feel i have to 100% dedicate myself to providing him with the best life i can. of course i realize that i need to take time for me, but right now that is pretty much my career so friendships are what falls behind. it sucks, and i never expected to be this way...but so it is.

i'm just saying all this in the childfree thread to hopefully give a bit of perspective for how things change in ways you woldn't expect them, so it may not be that people intend to diss their childfree friends...it is just really hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Another vote for Pig Island. Old Mr. T and old PPPP will be there in all their wrinkly glory.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:41 pm 
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bathsheba wrote:
As for the "mommy friends" thing... You should be friends with someone because you like them, not because they have kids and so do you. I'd like to think that I have room in my life for all kinds of people. I guess we'll see what happens. But I'm less inclined to want to be her friend now since there is basically an imposed time limit on the whole thing. Plus, people need friends. Yeah, being a new parent is work, but you need adult relationships that center on things other than children. I fundamentally believe this.

I'm also not super good at making new friends so it's not like I can just be like, "oh well, let's go get a new pal!"

well, parents becoming friends with people who also have children that their children can play with is a double bonus. (kids need socialization too) people tend to focus on specific things for periods of time, and friends who are willing to discuss kids ad-nauseum while you're learning to be a parent is a good thing. (i know i wouldn't, so that's why i'm okay with the idea of releasing a friend to go on this adventure without needing them to actively keep me on their roster.)

i'm also pretty bad at making new friends, but i'm also okay with not really having friends to hang out with at all. (that's where you and i differ.) also, i suppose my introversion is a factor. even without a kid, i find leaving the house to be a huge chore that i need to psych myself up for, so i can only imagine how it'd be WITH one, and it would be unfair to hold anyone to standards that i know i wouldn't be able to keep myself. you don't want a friend who is resenting having to spend time with you. (i guess i am more understanding because i'm really slow at doing everything, so i know how valuable other peoples' time is. especially if they're also slow-pokes. i wouldn't want them wasting their precious time on me when they could be doing something more important.)

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:50 pm 
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I think it's totally fine if you get a new baby/dog/job/other timesink and your priorities change for a while. That's life, right.

What's offputting about what bathsheba's friend said (or at least the way I keep reading it) is that her friend basically said "hey bathsheba, just so you know, I'm only spending time with you because I don't have a baby! Once I get that thing, you're totally outta here!" Like she doesn't really like her, she's just... passing the time because she's got nothing better to do. I dunno. I don't think anyone wants to hear that from a friend!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:00 pm 
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but she said she'd try. (even if it was a weak intention) she knows her limitations. i think it's good that she was honest.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:39 am 
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Two of my best friends are single moms (1 with a single child, one with 2) who both go to grad school full time and still manage to hang out at least a few times a month. they even both showed up to help me move last week! For me, it's not really a matter of what we do or how often we do it, but about keeping the connection alive, and about wanting to.
Sometimes we hang out in groups, sometimes the kids are there, sometimes we go out, sometimes we go to museums, sometimes we eat lunch in the middle of the school day, sometimes it's just a few phone calls during the month. But the intention is there! And the will to actually check in and talk for a little while.

I have a lot of friends with kids, and some of them I only see every few months, some of them I see often - but it's the same with everyone else. Some friends have a super busy career, some friends move to another part of the world and are kind of unavailable for long stretches of time.. It's all a matter of investing a little energy into the friendship every once in a while. Otherwise it will disappear.

Also, friends make the best babysitters ever. I've babysat most of my friends kids and had so much fun with it - you can play, read, bake, cook, go for walks, sing, whatever and give your parent-friends a little break from parenthood! It's super fun and a great resource. I definitely don't mind spending some of my time on babysitting my friend's kids, for them to have a relaxed adult evening.

I just really don't get it when people insist that they can't even make a single phone call every once in a while, or hang out for a few hours. I assume that most people who have friends that have kids would love to get to hang out with the kid and parent for a few hours every once in a while. Of course things change - you're not all alone anymore, you have a kid who is more important than anything else etc.. But just changing your old friends out with new friends, because you have a kid? That's not cool IMO.

Also, children only need constant adult supervision for so long - as soon as they are a bit older, they're gonna do their own thing, and then you will have plenty of time to hang out and do stuff. It's not like the baby-fatigue (which is totally understandable!) will continue for the rest of your life.. A 5 or 6 year old doesn't need constant attention.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:49 am 
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But I do realize that my friends are pretty outgoing people in general and that there are a lot of different situations. I just think that friendships are give and take, and that both parties need to put some love and attention into the friendship. I make an effort to do things with them that I wouldn't normally do in order for them to be able to hang out with me, and I expect them to make an effort as well.
Of course things change, and situations change, but in my world having a baby doesn't mean you can't maintain a relationship with people, just because they don't have children.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:16 am 
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smoothie wrote:
But I do realize that my friends are pretty outgoing people in general and that there are a lot of different situations.


I think this is key. The description you give of the amount of time your friends with kids manage to carve out for you is more than I (without kids) carve out for anyone. A month with two social activities is a busy month for me, and takes a lot of energy from me. I can't imagine carving out weekly or biweekly time for all of my friends if I then had the added energy-sapping element of a kid/kids to consider. (Another reason it's probably good I'm never having kids.)

I keep in touch with my closest friends mainly via e-mail/FB/Whatsapp. That's maybe exacerbated by the fact that I don't live in the same country as any of them right now, but it was actually the same when we lived in the same city (except for the friends who I happened to work with and saw weekly because of that). Friends who can't accept that I'm not a frequent contacter/plan-maker have indeed dropped by the wayside. It's no one's fault. I think people just have different styles of friendship.

For the record, most of my friends who kind of disappeared off the radar when they got kids did start dribbling back once the kids got older. Now most of us our in our mid to late 40s and for the most part, we're all back in touch again (although living on opposite ends of the world). Things change. Life changes. It's all good.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:39 am 
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Yes I'm like you lepeelar. For me it has been incredibly hard to find friends who understand I'm introverted and just don't have the energy to call them all the time, so even before having a kid I didn't have a lot of friends. They just don't believe me when I tell them I don't go out and don't call anyone else but them the 1x per month I call them - they can't grasp the concept.

Add to that now they can't understand what it is like to have a 3 year old either, and it just made things worse. I can't blame them - before I had a kid I was intentionally childfree, it wasn't until I was 37 my husband convinced me to change my mind. So I totally understand having all these other ideas about parenthood that I just didn't get until I had a kid - like I thought, how hard could it be to get a shower when you have an infant? Well it was nearly impossible! Unfortunately my childfree friends don't really go out of their way to come to my house or anything. As I said earlier, since I'm not with my kid for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, getting a babysitter for him on the 2 days we get to spend together doesn't work.

I haven't replaced any of my childfree friends with new ones who have kids either. I just have no social life. I hope it gets better in a few years when my kid can do his own thing!!!

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