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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:31 pm 
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You know, I'm going to be a lot more generous when it's my idea. If I am taxed I'm less likely to make donations.

I don't want to be penalized for my choices.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:32 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
I have three cats and two dogs, and a mortgage. Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I have a bunch of money to spend on hookers and blow. I have to choose between hookers OR blow. :(

Two mortgages.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:36 pm 
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That was not what I wanted to read while staring down what is honestly a kind of terrifying tax bill. I haven't been on a real vacation since I was 21 and my mom and dad's long-drawn-out divorce settlement was finalized, and we took a family trip to Hawaii. Apparently I'm really shitty at being childless.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:39 pm 
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I owe on my taxes too. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:49 pm 
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brian wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
I have three cats and two dogs, and a mortgage. Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I have a bunch of money to spend on hookers and blow. I have to choose between hookers OR blow. :(

Two mortgages.


Well, one of those gets canceled out by a rent check so I forgot.

I haven't been on a vacation since I was 21 either and all of my vacations involved staying with friends or on the floor of someone else's hotel room and eating at Subway for 1-2 meals a day. Apparently I should be dancing on a beach on a yearly basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:32 pm 
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As others in this thread have pointed out, childfree people already do pay more than parents, in that they don't get tax deductions and they pay property taxes that go towards funding schools. I would add to that that the childfree also pay in less obvious ways, such as not having the workplace flextime that parents get and in fact covering for the parents who do need to leave early/arrive late/take the day off because their child is sick/playing in a soccer game/has a parent-teacher conference. I feel like having children is also an advantage when it comes to things like promotions and raises- whether the supervisor realizes it or not, there's going to be a tendency to view a parent as more 'deserving' of advancement or more money because they have to provide for others who are dependent on them.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:45 pm 
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re the article: what is the point in being bitter towards people who don't have kids? why begrudge people without the kids the ability to go to the movies without hiring a babysitter or take a vacation that they might not otherwise be able to take. you want to tax people because they don't have to pay for diapers and babysitters?
EVEN THE SCORE? there's a score? apparently she thinks that people who don't have children are winning. you only try to even the score with people who are beating you somehow. If she's got a ton of disposable income to help out parents, why not donate money to a charity that helps out families in need. that would be a more direct way of "evening the score" i'm rambling and not making sense, but wow does that shiitake peas me off. what the fork? i'm so annoyed!

i don't have kids or pets because i know i cant afford it at this time in my life.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Statistically speaking, women without children are more likely to receive promotions than women with, but the reverse is opposite for men. Being a mother is viewed by employers as a liability, being a father is a bonus. It doesn't make sense, but the numbers back this up. (You can find several studies linked from the Wikipedia article here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherhood_penalty

Regardless, the idea that child free people should pay some sort of no child tax is insane and trollish.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:33 pm 
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I thought the part in the article that says that you don't enter into the 35% tax bracket until you make $450k or so... I can tell you that I don't make anywhere near $450k but whenever I get a bonus (rare, rare, I just got a small one), 40% of it is held for taxes. The reason is not only do you have taxes but you have social security, state taxes, and whatever else. And usually those that make over $450k... they tend to have a lot of loop holes to ensure that they can pay less in taxes so they may pay less percentage than someone who makes $50k. Why not close some loop holes? Divert the money to those that are poor, whether they have kids or not? I'd be for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:37 am 
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jordanpattern wrote:
That was not what I wanted to read while staring down what is honestly a kind of terrifying tax bill. I haven't been on a real vacation since I was 21 and my mom and dad's long-drawn-out divorce settlement was finalized, and we took a family trip to Hawaii. Apparently I'm really shitty at being childless.


What you need to do is accrue some epic student loans so you can write off the interest.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:40 am 
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this is glorious: http://theuglyvolvo.com/2014/04/01/why- ... y-is-fine/

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:07 am 
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EmperorTomatoKetchup wrote:


As a tattooed, child-free woman, yes. Yes, it is glorious!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:17 am 
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i just saw that! <3 it! i was going to post it. tattoos over children!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:23 pm 
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That was the best!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:32 pm 
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missmuffcake wrote:
tattoos over children!!!!

i really doubt that's the take-home message. as far as i know, the author of that article has a child.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:07 pm 
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EmperorTomatoKetchup wrote:
missmuffcake wrote:
tattoos over children!!!!

i really doubt that's the take-home message. as far as i know, the author of that article has a child.


Yeah, that is definitely not the message. The author was talking about society's double standard in that it blithely encourages women to make one permanent, life altering decision (having kids) while hand wringing about the enormity of the impact another permanent decision (getting tattooed) has on a woman's life.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:42 pm 
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i have neither tattoos nor children - an elite bracket!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:45 pm 
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EmperorTomatoKetchup wrote:
missmuffcake wrote:
tattoos over children!!!!

i really doubt that's the take-home message. as far as i know, the author of that article has a child.



maybe i needed to post #tongueandcheek with my comment?

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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In Denmark, having children means you get a lot of extra tax money compared to people who don't: child support from the government every month, sliding scale childcare (most children, around 98%, are in full time child care from they're 1), maternity/paternity leave (1 year between the two parents with 80% of regular salary payed), the entire education system is free, your children get free dental care until they're 18, your children get free medical care (everyone does) etc. Besides from that, people who get children during their education gets 1 extra year of school support money (everyone gets around $800 a month if they're taking a college education or trade education) so that they can take maternity/paternity leave + if you are a single parent, you'll get double school support or quite a lot more welfare if you're in that situation.
So children are definitely expensive for society and people who have children spend more tax money than child free people.

But I think that it's important. Besides from the fact that people need to have children in order to finance society when we are all old and grey (health care, welfare stuff, the state pension that everyone gets etc.) there is the very important fact that children are people who have rights to get their needs covered just like adults. Here, children have the right to get medical care, dental care etc. But they also have the right to have parents who can afford to let them participate in the same activities as their peers, they have the right to not starve, they have the right to have a place to live with their parents. I don't see the extra money spent on families as something given to the parents, but as something given to the children in order to make sure that they're safe and healthy and happy. Because safe and healthy and happy children are a lot more likely to become safe and healthy and happy adults. As soon as children are born, they have their own rights. It's not about parents having the right to more money or to pay less tax, it's about children having rights to a good life, no matter what socioeconomic reality they're born into. It's a way of maximizing social mobility and investing in the future for all of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:25 pm 
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I will say obviously Denmark is very different than the US in that adults don't get their needs covered, let alone children. Many children (and adults) live in poverty where they may not have food to eat, a place to live or money to provide heat during winter or air conditioning during heat waves. Although we have a social security system for the elderly, it isn't enough for people to live on and many elderly work until they die or until they are unable to. In the US, having a larger tax deduction for parents wouldn't guarantee that children are safe, as those in the most danger either pay no tax or little tax as it is. Obviously a lot of problems and no real solutions and our government is too divided to come up with any good solutions to help those in need.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:18 pm 
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ameyfm wrote:
i have neither tattoos nor children - an elite bracket!


I'm in your bracket! I love that other people have tattoos and/or children so I can appreciate them without making a lifetime commitment!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:31 pm 
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I have no children and am having a tattoo removed.

I truly have it all.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:56 am 
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choirqueer wrote:
ameyfm wrote:
i have neither tattoos nor children - an elite bracket!


I'm in your bracket! I love that other people have tattoos and/or children so I can appreciate them without making a lifetime commitment!

I'm also in your bracket - first time in my life I've been a member of the elite!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:23 am 
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I don't have any tattoos either! Too much of a commitment ;)

I'm tired of being treated like an incubator with legs.
I have to start looking for a new gyn for the regular pap smear later this year, I would like a friendly one so I wont have to have to hear "WHEN you have had kids" again, when I ask about sterilization.
I'm not looking to get sterilized right now, but I want a gyn who doesn't see women as incubators with legs, so when I do need to get sterilized the process will be easier and I wont waste time doctor shopping.
Wonder if I should send emails to doctors. It bugs me that by googling it seems like Germany is very conservative on this area.
If needed I can always travel to do the surgery, but I would prefer to stay in my flat instead of a hotel, and also because I might even be able to get it payed by insurance due to health issues as far as I've read.
But I think it's sad it has to be a health thing (so I'm reluctant to do it that way for political human rights reasons...), even if I was healthy I'm still not an incubator with legs. I want to have a doc who treats me with respect and who can see that children are not for everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:30 pm 
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I'm looking for books on this topic-- has anyone read any that they'd recommend? I made a list from Amazon results and then looked to see what's in the public library system. I was irritated to find that only 5/14 of the books I looked for are in the library at all, which seems telling given that there's a section on parenting even at the tiny local temporary location of a branch library. Ugh. Anyway, I'm really appreciating this thread, even if I read way more than I post.


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