| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:03 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2096 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79 ... 84  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:30 am 
Offline
WELFARIST!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 5185
^I would, if only my parents survived long enough to fill in soooooo many blanks!!!! Actually my grandmother (on my Dad's side) wrote stuff about her own family history that I found somewhere online (someone posted it on Ancestry.com, actually) and it's long and didn't mean much to me but it was cool to see her writing and I was quite impressed. I met one of my Dad's sisters just recently and she told me my grandmother used to write poems and stuff "all the time". I have no idea how she found time with fourteen living kids though. No wonder my father complained about having to raise all his brothers and sisters. I think that's what happened in such large families--the older siblings helped with a lot of the child care work for their younger sibs.

_________________
"I'm sorry! I'm Canadian!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:15 pm 
Offline
Vegan Since Before There Were Vegetables
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Posts: 10411
Location: Wolfville, Nova Scotia
That's so cool. My family is so tiny on both sides, and my husband's family has sadly died out except for him and his sister. I'm fascinated by the concept of massive families! Like, how do you divide your love and time between 14 kids and still remain a (sane) individual?!

For the first time in my life, I'm getting a little tiny maternal itch. I really don't want a baby, at ALL, but I'm considering thinking about adoption if we can afford it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:53 pm 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3775
Location: Smugville, CA
A short but thought-provoking piece on Jezebel this morning: http://tinyurl.com/madoqqh

This summarizes one of my many personal reasons for not having kids. Quoting a large part of it below, and spoilering it because it's large.

Spoiler: show
Quote:
But I don't want to bring a child into a world where little boys playing soccer with their cousins on a beach get blown up by the Israeli army. I don't want to bring a child into a world where a Ukrainian rebel (or Russian fighter, or who-the-fuckever) with poor eyesight and even worse judgment shoots a Malaysian Airlines passenger flight from the sky with a Soviet-era war relic, killing 295 people who have absolutely forking nothing to do with a lingering conflict over territory. I don't want to bring a daughter into a world where college administrators turn a blind eye to sexual assault, or a son into a world where he'd likely bear witness to sexual assault as a bystander, victim, or perpetrator. I don't want to bring a child into a world where a girl's rape can go viral. I don't want to give birth to a child in a coastal city that will be under water in 100 years, to one where boys who grow up wanting to serve their country end up dying to protect Dick Cheney's stock portfolio. To a world where a religious institution that has, for 1500 years, harbored pedophiles and blood money, still holds political sway over a large portion of the country that controls the largest military in the world. I won't bear a child into a world of constant surveillance. I can't do it.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:54 pm 
Offline
Has it on Blue Vinyl
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 2140
Location: milwaukee
here's a little video i found forever ago, but i wouldn't let myself post it in here until i got caught up. i was months behind, and now, whew!! i'm current again. :) anyhow, this video made me think of our little thread here. :)

http://www.upworthy.com/got-relatives-w ... hem?c=ufb1

_________________
i'm not around much, but that doesn't mean i don't love you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:12 pm 
Offline
Inflexitarian
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:19 pm
Posts: 762
Tofulish wrote:
Just if this is of any help to anyone: If you're not super-at-ease with a baby, you can always offer to stay with them while they are napping. You don't have to do much then - just read a book while they sleep for an hour or two. Babies sleep a lot. And normally the parent will tell you what to do if they wake up and mostly the answer is if they're crying offer a bottle. They also may like to be picked up and bounced around a bit, or else put in a bouncer or swing for a bit. Or you could give them a break to go swimming or something close by so that you can call them if the baby wakes up.


I'm so glad I came to this thread to learn how to hold a baby! This is the perfect thread for this!

_________________
Chicken>Lacan all day, any day. -pandacookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:17 pm 
Offline
Inflexitarian
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:19 pm
Posts: 762
Published today, by 21 year old woman. Not the best piece of writing, but I appreciate her point that in general people who state that they do not want kids are always having to provide justification. People who have children, of course, don't have to provide justification. Since that's the "normal" (she says "cookie cutter") thing to do. The title nails it: having kids is acceptable, not having kids, especially as a young woman, is not acceptable.

"Yet, each time I inform people that I don't have a burning desire to have my own children someday, that I lack that deep-rooted maternal craving, they look stunned -- as if that is what every 20-something woman should be waiting for, working towards.The response is usually one of the following: 'But you work with kids, you're so good with them. You have four younger siblings!' Or,
'Oh, someday you'll change your mind.' The first response I can tolerate, because it is true. I do work with them, I am good with them and I do have four younger siblings. It's the second response that irks me to no end."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/beth-leip ... mg00000046

_________________
Chicken>Lacan all day, any day. -pandacookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:38 pm 
Offline
Memorized Veganomicon

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 90
I mostly appreciated that article, especially the point about how no one is asked to provide justification for not wanting kids, but those who don't want kids are questioned about their reasoning. I took issue, though, with her comment about something like finding kids cute or interesting (something like that) because she's not "heartless." So, if a woman (like myself) isn't especially enamored with kids, doesn't find them particularly interesting, they're heartless? I think that plays into gender stereotypes about women-as-nurturers, and like, "I'm not one of those horrible women who don't like kids." Well, I don't especially like kids all that much. So there.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:50 pm 
Offline
Asked Santa for a pony
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3110
Location: Portland
Yeah...babies just don't do it for me. I have never held a baby and thought anything more than "when can I give it back?" I don't think I'm heartless because I really, really like puppies.

_________________
The Noochy Noodle, my personal obsession with discovering the worlds greatest vegan mac and cheeze


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:33 pm 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3775
Location: Smugville, CA
I agree, I think there is huge pressure in our society to temper "I don't want to have children" with "but I love them!" I vaguely remember years ago on Facebook your options for your parental status were "I have kids," "I don't have kids but want them," and "I love kids but they're not for me." One day I remember the simple "I don't want kids" quietly appearing, and it was incredibly validating.

A huge part of not wanting kids, especially as women, is that we are expected to explain and justify our decisions, to reassure the person to whom we're conveying this information that we're not excessively aberrant, that although we're defying this iron-clad society expectation, we're going to be "good girls" and conform to gender identities in other acceptable ways.

I think what is so infuriating to me about the "you'll change your mind" comments are that it's just one more instance of gaslighting women who assert their autonomy. Silly woman, you don't really know what you want. You'll change your mind. Others know better.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:40 pm 
Offline
Inflexitarian
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:19 pm
Posts: 762
Agreed re: heartless. I wonder how much of the author including that is just to soften people's inevitable confusion and vitriol. "Oh, you LIKE kids but just don't WANT them? Well, you're not a monster...." It's almost like in her passionate plea against having to justify, she does it anyway with that comment.

It's so sad that people are so threatened/scared by women without children that women are pressured into coming up with excuses, convoluted stories, justifications, etc... to explain that nope, we don't want kids.

_________________
Chicken>Lacan all day, any day. -pandacookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:24 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya

Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:49 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Do you think age/maturity is a factor in how much one invokes the not heartless justification? When I was that author's age (I'm assuming she's early 20's because she's a college student, but of course she might be older) I think I was more prone to giving in to the "Oh I LIKE kids I just don't want any, and yeah maybe one day i'll change my mind" discussion, whereas now (37 yrs) I'm all "yeah I don't want kids. Period. Live with it. Next topic."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:48 pm 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3775
Location: Smugville, CA
For me, it was the opposite. I've never felt the need to qualify my choices with a declaration of Love for All Children, but it was really truly not until very recently that I even felt the slightest bit comfortable around kids. If anything, it only fortified my decision from early on that having kids was really not for me, and gave me the 'insider knowledge' necessary to roll my eyes at the "you'll change your mind"s.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:02 pm 
Offline
Just Loathin' Around!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 7275
Location: bindlestiff
I think the pressure is still there for every woman of every age to qualify the desire for no children. It's rare at any age for a woman to simply state 'I don't want kids because I don't want kids'. I find that it is more useful for shutting down the conversation, though. Like you say, next topic. Not open for discussion.

_________________
Ovoids=not vegan --invictus

Panda With Cookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:49 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya

Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:49 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
For me, it was the opposite. I've never felt the need to qualify my choices with a declaration of Love for All Children, but it was really truly not until very recently that I even felt the slightest bit comfortable around kids. If anything, it only fortified my decision from early on that having kids was really not for me, and gave me the 'insider knowledge' necessary to roll my eyes at the "you'll change your mind"s.


Interesting! Back when I totally lied when I said "I LIKE kids but..." The truth was, I knew I didn't like kids, but I felt the need to say it as part of the excuse. Granted I didn't/don't dislike kids either, but kids are no puppies :)



pandacookie wrote:
I think the pressure is still there for every woman of every age to qualify the desire for no children. It's rare at any age for a woman to simply state 'I don't want kids because I don't want kids'. I find that it is more useful for shutting down the conversation, though. Like you say, next topic. Not open for discussion.


I would definitely agree with you that the pressure exists despite age, I was just wondering if people felt more comfortable in shutting the conversation down as they got older compared to when they were younger, or if people have the same lever of comfort or non-comfort regardless of age. Me, I think its a combination of getting older and not caring because I'm more comfortable with "me" and just getting tired of the question.

On another note, I have noticed a lot more people not giving me grief about it. I've been meeting some new people here and there and when they ask if I have kids, I say "just the 4 legged furry kind" and they've been cool about and ask about my dogs, relate stories of their dogs or "my coworker doesn't have kids but has dogs that she rescued and...." etc. Kind of nice that the conversation goes to a different common ground rather than the usual confrontational why not or the condescending you'll change your mind. And I wonder if THAT is a function of my age or if more people are realizing that questioning this particular decision is both rude and potentially emotionally upsetting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:57 pm 
Offline
Asked Santa for a pony
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3110
Location: Portland
I'm 25 and when the topic comes up I shut it down very quickly with a simple "because I/we don't want to". It's nobodies damn business and people need to learn to not ask such personal questions. It's incredibly rude.

_________________
The Noochy Noodle, my personal obsession with discovering the worlds greatest vegan mac and cheeze


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:18 pm 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3775
Location: Smugville, CA
emmalv wrote:
I wonder if THAT is a function of my age or if more people are realizing that questioning this particular decision is both rude and potentially emotionally upsetting.


I wonder this, too. I feel like I get far fewer inquiries as to whether I "want" kids to begin with these days,* let alone challenges to my answer. Even though I've never wavered from this conviction myself, is it that my decision is taken my seriously by others because I'm now in my mid-30s? Or is it just that society in general is a tad bit less dickish than it was 10-15 years ago?

*unless, of course, it's a relevant question from, say, a doctor or a date.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:46 pm 
Offline
Bought a used copy of Natural Harvest
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 6186
Location: Land of Maple and Beavers
Nebraskalaska wrote:
It's nobodies damn business and people need to learn to not ask such personal questions. It's incredibly rude.


QFT. It is so rude and invasive. Like, that's incredibly personal and no one should have to explain or qualify that to anyone.

_________________
Did you notice the slight feeling of panic at the words "Chicken Basin Street"? Like someone was walking over your grave? Try not to remember. We must never remember. - mumbles
Is this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:07 pm 
Offline
Drinks Wild Tofurkey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:16 am
Posts: 2750
Location: SF Bay area
I do feel the pressure to put out a blanket statement that I like kids even though I don't want them. I feel it now more as a person in my late 20s than I did in my early 20s.

When I was younger I used to say I didn't like kids and I don't know, that seems pretty harsh. It's too negative. I give every kid a chance, just like I give every adult a chance. Some I like, some I don't and it doesn't really have anything to do with age. I wouldn't say I love babies either. It seems like I'm treating them like objects rather than people to say that I love all babies.

_________________
http://hotveganchickpeas.wordpress.com (food blog)
http://baybalcony.wordpress.com (gardening blog)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:22 pm 
Online
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:55 pm
Posts: 4300
Location: The land of maple syrup and beavers.
I think when I was younger I seemed more heartless because I openly disliked them and could not relate to them and did not try to. I have improved leaps and bounds in that regard and actually have kids I care about now, and can say I don't dislike kids. I just don't automatically connect with them and have no desire to create any.

Now I occasionally get a raised eyebrow when I say I'm not having kids, but adding on "just fur babies for me!" or something similar seems to make it acceptable - people knowingly nod or say "oh my dogs are like my kids too". Did pets as kids become more acceptable in the last 10 years? Is that the difference?

_________________
Anyone for some German Shepherd Pie? - daisychain
Well! Fruit is stupid! These onions taste nothing like fruit! - allularpunk
Dwarf-tossing for God: A Story of Hope - Invictus


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:55 am 
Offline
Vegan Since Before There Were Vegetables
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Posts: 10411
Location: Wolfville, Nova Scotia
When I say I don't need kids because I already have cats, people roll their eyes as though I'm some idiot who confuses the humongous challenge of children with having cats. But that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:25 am 
Offline
Inflexitarian
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:53 am
Posts: 755
Location: Emerald City, Oz
ScooterDiva wrote:
pandacookie wrote:
I saw a recent book (The Otherhood) that has this quote as part of it's selling point.
"While our society often assumes these women are “childfree by choice,” that’s not always true. In reality, many of them expected to marry and have children, but it simply hasn’t happened."


That's me, exactly. Only one out of my friends that's not married yet. Never expected it to happen this way. And at 38, I don't see Prince Charming showing up at my door tomorrow, eloping next week, and expecting next month. I really wanted a family. Obviously the universe had different plans.

I'm sort of similar. Assumed I'd have kids eventually, and I really like them, but I've ended up being perpetually single and the onset of financial security is coming much later than I would have thought at 20. In my late 20s, I could almost literally have screamed at the unfairness of the universe ("But I'd be such a fantastic parent! Just because some theoretical guy hasn't showed up..." - see also: entitlement, delusions of grandeur). What I've settled on in recent years is this: I haven't chosen not to have kids as such, but I've never been in a position of really needing to decide either way. So I'm just getting on with my life and choosing to be happy with wherever it takes me. Working pretty well for me. monkeytoes and ameyfm - your comments rang true for me, too.

Tonight I'm having a rare sad mood about it. I blame stress, PMS, and the arrival of my adorable new nibling (the offspring of two people I adore, and presumably not completely unlike how a biological kid of my own would look). I wouldn't want to sleepwalk into regret by not going after something I want (if I could even be sure I do) - but going back through some pages of this thread has been a much-needed reminder of other things that can be. In short: good thread - thanks. x


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:48 am 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3775
Location: Smugville, CA
When it's slow at work, I'll peruse my library's online catalogue to see if there are any interesting new additions. Today I came across a book titled 'Yes, You Can Get Pregnant'. It made me snort and say to myself "really?" Because I have had an operation to physically bar the ability for a sperm to meet an egg in my body. I'm not trying to dismiss what people with fertility struggles go through, but the way the book title was written, as if directly to me, made me laugh.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:39 am 
Offline
Inflexitarian
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:19 pm
Posts: 762
parts of this article really ring true for me:

"At least once a week I read an article or overhear a conversation about the difficulty women have balancing work and home. Especially since Sheryl Sandberg urged women to Lean In and take on more responsibilities, the professional world is overrun with rebuttals, critiques, and demands for corporate restructuring to better accommodate the overwhelming demands of the working mother.

Great. I’m with it.

But where are the conversations about the women who’ve chosen not to get married or have children? Where is the outrage on behalf of the women who are expected to work longer hours, attend evening and weekend events, and be ‘flexible’ in their work schedule because they don’t have ‘pressing obligations’ outside of work?"


http://theotherclass.wordpress.com/2014 ... -a-family/

_________________
Chicken>Lacan all day, any day. -pandacookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:07 pm 
Offline
ugh
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 2647
Location: north of Boston, MA, USA
[youtube]http://youtu.be/4AhGvR0143s[/youtube]

ETA: Hmm, the video isn't showing up for me but you can see it here: NEW! Try, "NOT HAVING KIDS"

_________________

"I feel like it's not a real political discussion if I'm not morally opposed to something I don't understand." - ndpittman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:26 pm 
Offline
Flounceiad 2011
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:26 pm
Posts: 5618
Location: A New England
Words cannot describe how happy this makes me. Now I wish someone would recreate those creepy, shudder-inducing Celine Dion photos from a few years back with cats. Or mountain lions.

http://elitedaily.com/envision/couple-p ... by/694218/

_________________
I will read all sorts of tripe and am great at suspension of disbelief,
but when characters start getting the hots for serial killer ghosts, I'm out. ~ lavawitch
"SMLOUNCE!" ~ smurfterrobang?!
http://elizaveganpage.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2096 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79 ... 84  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kiddo, MissGabbster, Pi_Face and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer