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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:02 pm 
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I am also glad this thread is still open!
(And I hope it stays open till we retire and get our commune set up.)
I agree with the above, it is certainly better to err on the side of not having kids than end up with kids that are not 100% joyously wanted for the next 18+ years.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:39 pm 
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Can we have an american commune and a european commune and organize exchange programs between the two? With care packages every month, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Anek wrote:
Can we have an american commune and a european commune and organize exchange programs between the two? With care packages every month, of course.


Like!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:50 pm 
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sounds good to me!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Love the PPK old age home. It'll be like all of the rooms on this board. We'll cook so much food and have a great garden and lots of cute animal friends.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:12 pm 
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molasses jane wrote:
Love the PPK old age home. It'll be like all of the rooms on this board. We'll cook so much food and have a great garden and lots of cute animal friends.


I'm so in.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:14 pm 
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bluedawg wrote:
i'll just say for now that i'm 38, have no kiddos, and don't plan to have any. i've been married since i was 24 (my husband is 4 years older) and we just always were in the "i'm not sure what will happen in the long run, but i definitely don't have a strong desire to be a parent" camp. also, we're both professors so we were extremely worried about getting tenure, and agreed that if (big if) we ever had kids that it wouldn't be until after we had tenure.

and i totes want to live in supercarrot's retirement home when i get old!


bluedawg, i so hear you. i am in a tt job here, just passed my fourth year review. even if i were interested, i couldn't even think of having kids till tenure, but that's not going to be determined till i am 37. meanwhile a lot of my jr. colleagues are having kids and taking off a year or two during the tenure clock, and those of us without kids get saddled with more and more committee work and department responsibilities. it's insane. i'm at a very small SLAC, and most of my work life is also my social life, and for whatever reason, nearly all the jr. faculty have kids. it's hard to meet people outside of work, so i feel pretty isolated most of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:59 am 
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I'm not delving into the past 19 pages, because there is inevitably some terse debating whenever one of these threads pops up. But I'm happy to chime in now, and add that I'm 33, have never wanted children, and had myself voluntarily sterilized about 3 years ago. I'm far more comfortable around children now than I've ever been, and I take great joy in my friends' children (now that I am at the age that friends start having children), but at the same time I've never felt a moment of doubt or regret about my decision to remove myself from the gene pool permanently.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:24 am 
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Am 41, no kids and never wanted them. I do however have two step kids who live with me and my husband full time, which has again confirmed to me why I never wanted to have kids myself (this situation was not what I signed up for btw, their mom who had them lost her shiitake and took off; she probably would not have kids again either if she could do it over again). If my husband could make the choice again he has said before that he would not have kids again. My mom even said the same thing. Like some other posters have said before up threads, it's better to regret not having kids than having them and regret it.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:24 am 
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I'm not going to have kids. It's just not for me.

For the last few months I have dated someone who might want to have kids. Might.
If anybody else has experience with this then I would love to hear about it.

I have made my point clear, and I'm afraid he still thinks there is a hope I'm going to change my mind. I have said I'm never going to have kids, and he said I can't say never, and let's talk about this later on.
I think he would be a great dad, but I cannot provide the genes, uterus, and mothering skills for it.
We talked about birth control and I mentioned that I've always known that I will get sterilized if needed, and if we're still together after some time I can go to the doctor for a consultation etc.
But he wants me to take the pill, everybody takes it.... Personally I don't want to be on birth control until I hit menopause... It's way more scary to me than the operation. So when we want to ditch the condoms I don't know what to do, no method of birth control, hormonal or non hormonal appeals to me.

My last partner did not want to have kids either and it was very nice to not have to worry about that, and even though you never know if the relationship is going to last, it's nice that there is a common ground so it's an option, and that's it's not doomed to be a short-term relationship.
With this I feel like I could be left because of it, invest time and feelings in the relationship and him thinking if he wants kids he can just talk me into it, even though I made it very clear from the beginning that I'm not having kids.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:19 am 
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la vie sale wrote:
Am 41, no kids and never wanted them. I do however have two step kids who live with me and my husband full time, which has again confirmed to me why I never wanted to have kids myself (this situation was not what I signed up for btw, their mom who had them lost her shiitake and took off; she probably would not have kids again either if she could do it over again). If my husband could make the choice again he has said before that he would not have kids again. My mom even said the same thing. Like some other posters have said before up threads, it's better to regret not having kids than having them and regret it.


Yup. Not that husband's kids live with us (or that husband lives with me for that matter, but I digress). I was lucky in that Wilson thought he definitely wanted more kids, but now that he's in Brazil and around so many kids, he's having second thoughts on that. He adores his daughter (and nieces and nephews), but they are exhausting and expensive. Better to provide for the kids that are already here than make new ones.

Ladies that have been sterilized, was it tubal ligation? Did you have to fight to be allowed to do it?

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:45 am 
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I realize my first post may have come across a bit harsh but I am just telling it how I feel and think it's ok in this particular thread. Having step kids when you never wanted to have kids or liked kids that much for that matter is no walk in the park and I can't wait for them to be grown up and gone. It's exhausting and we never get a break. I don't have a bond with them like they do with their bio parents and more often than not feel like their housekeeper. I love how many ladies here are smart enough to never want kids. There are plenty of 'em on this planet already. I have never thought of not having kids as selfish; I see it as the other way around.

Oh, and I made my husband get a vasectomy last year. It really wasn't that bad he said. I know men think their junk is sacred and expect us to just be on the pill etc, but I refused to be on it anymore and got rid of my IUD as well. It's been great.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:58 am 
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I'm thinking about talking to Wilson about that, but yeah. I can see him not wanting to do that; I'm going to guess it's a no go for most Brazilian men.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:01 am 
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scandinaveggie, you'll need to frame it to him in such a way that gets the point across that he either needs to resign to the fact that he will not have kids if he stays with you, or he can go and find someone else while you both are still young. staying in the relationship is detrimental to the both of you of he still has hope.

also, I've been practicing fertility awareness for over 100 cycles. aside from waking up when I don't have to otherwise, I love it. but it's not for everyone. vaslgel will be the perfect solution for trustworthy dudes, but it's still in trials. probably won't be available to the public until after 2015.

good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:24 am 
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supercarrot wrote:
scandinaveggie, you'll need to frame it to him in such a way that gets the point across that he either needs to resign to the fact that he will not have kids if he stays with you, or he can go and find someone else while you both are still young. staying in the relationship is detrimental to the both of you of he still has hope.

also, I've been practicing fertility awareness for over 100 cycles. aside from waking up when I don't have to otherwise, I love it. but it's not for everyone. vaslgel will be the perfect solution for trustworthy dudes, but it's still in trials. probably won't be available to the public until after 2015.

good luck!


Yeah I think it will be a good idea to clarify again, I'm unsure of how I should bring it up again anytime soon, since I have already mentioned it a few time to make sure that he knows about it.
I have just started taking my temperature (I have the book and everything) so I hope that will work out. I have very irregular sleep schedule so I'm not sure if I can use that method, but I will keep a chart the next few months and see.



I think the issue is that he isn't really sure himself if he wants kids or not, and maybe he thinks I will accommodate his wishes if he decides that he wants to have kids, cause that's what partners do, make compromises (but he is not the one with crappy genes, a bad childhood, risk their life if getting postpartum depression or likewise, or have to live with the guilt if the kid inherits some of the diseases that run in my family, or the one who will be the the main caretaker the next 18 years+ etc.).

It's nice to have a thread like this with understanding people, it seems to be something you're not allowed to talk about.
Usually I just smile politely when people say "When you get kids of your own..."


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:48 am 
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scandinaveggie wrote:
I'm not going to have kids. It's just not for me.

For the last few months I have dated someone who might want to have kids. Might.
If anybody else has experience with this then I would love to hear about it.

I have made my point clear, and I'm afraid he still thinks there is a hope I'm going to change my mind. I have said I'm never going to have kids, and he said I can't say never, and let's talk about this later on.
I think he would be a great dad, but I cannot provide the genes, uterus, and mothering skills for it.
We talked about birth control and I mentioned that I've always known that I will get sterilized if needed, and if we're still together after some time I can go to the doctor for a consultation etc.
But he wants me to take the pill, everybody takes it.... Personally I don't want to be on birth control until I hit menopause... It's way more scary to me than the operation. So when we want to ditch the condoms I don't know what to do, no method of birth control, hormonal or non hormonal appeals to me.

I was in a situation like this years ago and we ended the relationship. It infuriated me then and it would now that someone thought I would change my mind or could be convinced otherwise. For me, not having kids was an area of no compromise in a relationship and after that I was very upfront about it right away and never got into another relationship with someone who wanted kids or might want kids or had kids who were older. It was a tough short term choice but a very wise long term choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:57 am 
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la vie sale wrote:
Am 41, no kids and never wanted them. I do however have two step kids who live with me and my husband full time, which has again confirmed to me why I never wanted to have kids myself (this situation was not what I signed up for btw, their mom who had them lost her shiitake and took off; she probably would not have kids again either if she could do it over again). If my husband could make the choice again he has said before that he would not have kids again. My mom even said the same thing. Like some other posters have said before up threads, it's better to regret not having kids than having them and regret it.


I'm pretty sure that my parents didn't really want kids and only had them because that's what people do. Not because my parents ever screamed 'I wish you'd never been born', but a lot of the stuff they did and didn't do made me realize that. They didn't teach me how to ride a bike, swim, or drive a car and i'm pretty sure the only reason I was in Girl Scouts is because my troop met across the street from my house, so my mom didn't even have to walk me. And i'm pretty sure she volunteered for our trips so she could take off work. My dad had a home business, and as soon as he moved to his own building, my mom stopped making dinner and told us we were old enough to make food (aka, microwave meals and frozen pizzas), I think I was around 11 so it was technically true, but still. Holidays were dropped as soon as possible, like Easter and dyeing eggs and getting chocolates. Our garage burned down on the 4th of July due to faulty wiring, so it had nothing to do with fireworks, but my dad declared the next year that because of that, we weren't getting any. I was like eight and didn't even get sparklers. My brother and I got to go to the pool and water park a lot, but only because my mom could drop us off there for six hours. My dad went to my class play when I was in Kindergarten and then never to another school function I was involved with ever again. Neither of them would go to those parent-teacher conferences which is partly why I got away with being such a bad kid. I could go on forever.

My mom got her tubes tied when I was around two, thank god.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:17 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
Ladies that have been sterilized, was it tubal ligation? Did you have to fight to be allowed to do it?


I didn't have to fight for it, but then I was already 43 when I asked for it. They did ask me a lot of questions to make sure that I wasn't being pressured into it, and to make sure I wasn't going to regret the decision. They also explained other options that were less permanent (basically IUDs), I think to give me an out if I wasn't really sure, but I assured them that I had known for a long time that it was what I wanted to do, and that was that. I don't know how much more difficult it would have been if I was younger. Or living in the US.

One thing that just came back to me was that around the time I was making the decision, a few people questioned why I was getting it done rather than my partner getting a vasectomy. As if he was being selfish for "making" me go through the procedure. But that was also my decision. I've always known I don't want kids. If we were to break up, and I had a new partner, I'd still not want kids. But if we were to break up, he might end up with someone who does want kids, and I didn't want to take that option away from him.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:17 pm 
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MBM, I'm sorry that you went through that. That is not at all how my mom was or how I am with my step kids (not that you're implying it). I make dinner for the kids every night and we play board games after dinner a few times a week. I have gone to every parent/ teacher conference since their mother took off because I want to know how they are doing in school and I want to know their teachers. We go on trips with them, soccer games, have sleep overs at our house all the time. My husband is the best dad I know, and I am a pretty good step parent I think. Just not by choice really (in hindsight of course I knew they were a package deal, just not to what extent after the mom left). I just tried to be brutally honest that if it were up to me I wouldn't have step kids. It's a huge strain on a relationship, especially if the step parent is not a "kid" person perse.

Sorry, maybe I took it too personal. I struggle a lot with being a step parent so it's a touchy subject at times.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:35 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
Ladies that have been sterilized, was it tubal ligation? Did you have to fight to be allowed to do it?


I had a relatively new procedure/technique done called Essure. It's a simple outpatient procedure; they go in vaginally and insert a metal coil/spring in each fallopian tube. Inside each coil is a small suppository of a scarring compound which begins dissolving upon insertion. Over the course of an average of 3 months your fallopians scar around the coils and effectively seal themselves shut, so that eggs can no longer pass through to the uterus and sperm can no longer enter the fallopian tubes. To ensure it was successful, the doctor will flush a dye into your uterus and do an ultrasound to ensure the fallopians are sealed off and the dye does not reach in there.

I had it done when I was 30, and did not have to fight very hard. I had to attend a mandatory class and sign multiple acknowledgements that the procedure is irreversible and will permanently keep me from having children. I also was asked by the doctor just before the procedure if both my partner and I were sure we didn't want to have children in the future. None of this, however, was done in a condescending manner or in a way that implied that any of the medical professionals doubted my motivations or wishes. It was run-of-the-mill CYA stuff, which I appreciated because permanent sterilization, just like parenthood, is a hefty decision to make and should be approached with certainty by someone in a stable state of mind.

I've been lucky in that, although I used to get plenty of "you'll change your mind"s, none of it came from medical professionals, at least as far as I can remember. I can't imagine how infuriating it might be to be faced with that from a doctor and my heart goes out to any voluntarily child-free women (whether temporarily or permanently) who face that kind of intrusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:49 pm 
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I really appreciate that, Erika Soyf*cker. That sounds much less invasive.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:57 pm 
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la vie sale wrote:
I realize my first post may have come across a bit harsh but I am just telling it how I feel and think it's ok in this particular thread. Having step kids when you never wanted to have kids or liked kids that much for that matter is no walk in the park and I can't wait for them to be grown up and gone. It's exhausting and we never get a break. I don't have a bond with them like they do with their bio parents and more often than not feel like their housekeeper. I love how many ladies here are smart enough to never want kids. There are plenty of 'em on this planet already. I have never thought of not having kids as selfish; I see it as the other way around.

Oh, and I made my husband get a vasectomy last year. It really wasn't that bad he said. I know men think their junk is sacred and expect us to just be on the pill etc, but I refused to be on it anymore and got rid of my IUD as well. It's been great.

Thanks for sharing this. I don't think it sounds harsh at all, I appreciate your honesty.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:22 pm 
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My mom had the tubal ligation probably about 20 years ago, so she would've been around 40. I remember they went into her belly button and she was sore for a while after. I also think she didn't have to fight to get it done but I'm sure she saw an alternate primary care doctor as hers didn't even prescribe birth control pills.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:56 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
I can see how exhausting it must be to have to constantly defend your choices as childfree, but I can't help but think that things like "breeder", "fencesitter", etc. make it an us vs. them fight when it really needn't be. We should all be working together to broaden women's choices, to make parenthood a do-able choice for those who want it and to make non-parenthood an unquestioned position.


I agree with this. ^ In addition, I believe we should all continue to support safe + legal abortions as well as access to readily available birth control for men, women, and minors. Ideally, children should be a choice. Everyone should have the ability to plan to have them or not.

In regards to the term "childfree". I referred to my family (me, my partner, and our 2 dogs) as childfree because we have no children and after all, this is the topic of the thread. When the topic comes up IRL I believe "childfree" is often a better word choice than "childless" because we don't feel like we lack anything. But I think it is important to note that we still think of ourselves as a family. Maybe we are a little different than the average family in the US since we are all vegan (dogs included), childfree, and atheists (yeah the christian-right loves us!) but we are definitely still a legitimate and loving family. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:42 pm 
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la vie sale wrote:
MBM, I'm sorry that you went through that. That is not at all how my mom was or how I am with my step kids (not that you're implying it). I make dinner for the kids every night and we play board games after dinner a few times a week. I have gone to every parent/ teacher conference since their mother took off because I want to know how they are doing in school and I want to know their teachers. We go on trips with them, soccer games, have sleep overs at our house all the time. My husband is the best dad I know, and I am a pretty good step parent I think. Just not by choice really (in hindsight of course I knew they were a package deal, just not to what extent after the mom left). I just tried to be brutally honest that if it were up to me I wouldn't have step kids. It's a huge strain on a relationship, especially if the step parent is not a "kid" person perse.

Sorry, maybe I took it too personal. I struggle a lot with being a step parent so it's a touchy subject at times.


Oh no, I just wanted to add onto your experience with my own, not to be like 'YOUR STEPKIDS WILL THINK YOU HAAAAAATE THEM'. I actually didn't think anything weird about my rearing until I was an adult, and I didn't even get into the drinking and various types of abuse. It's just an example of, if you don't want kids, here's a reason not to cave or fold to your partner or parents or whatever. Or if people say 'it sounds selfish/harsh', well, I think it was selfish of my parents to have kids that they clearly didn't have a lot of interest in. I didn't ask to be born and obviously if I hadn't been, no skin off of my non-existent nose, but I think that my brother and I deserved better. I automatically assume that everyone is a better parent than they were.

How old are your stepkids? Did their mom flee even paying child support? I think it's amazing that you do all that you do for them, especially since it's absolutely the opposite of what you wanted.

_________________
"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear


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