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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
ndpittman wrote:
Ladies that have been sterilized, was it tubal ligation? Did you have to fight to be allowed to do it?


I had a relatively new procedure/technique done called Essure. It's a simple outpatient procedure; they go in vaginally and insert a metal coil/spring in each fallopian tube.


I want this instead of having another IUD in November, my boyfriend thinks that I should get another IUD...My parents are on the same page as him...I am looking into it and seeing all my options.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:47 pm 
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missmuffcake wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
ndpittman wrote:
Ladies that have been sterilized, was it tubal ligation? Did you have to fight to be allowed to do it?


I had a relatively new procedure/technique done called Essure. It's a simple outpatient procedure; they go in vaginally and insert a metal coil/spring in each fallopian tube.


I want this instead of having another IUD in November, my boyfriend thinks that I should get another IUD...My parents are on the same page as him...I am looking into it and seeing all my options.


You know I remember when I first looked into getting an IUD, I was told I was way too young (and of course too young for sterilization), now I know girls who were my age at the time who have them. And aside from the PPK I didn't know anyone who spoke of them positively, because you should wait til you have kids because an IUD could supposedly possibly do real damage to your uterus.

Now it seems they're the "please don't sterilize" offering.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Thanks MBM. :)
I really love my husband so I am doing it for him really. If I had known what road was ahead of me before we got married.....not quite sure I would have done it again. There is a light at the end of the tunnel when they are both done with high school and hopefully off to whatever they want to do. They are 11 and 15, so they are quite independent already, but I was there full time when the 11 year old was 8, so really young still, and honestly, those kids are broken from what their mom did to them. She tried really hard to not pay child support, it was really sad and infuriating how hard she tried to get out of it. Those are her kids and she didn't think she should pay anything because my husband makes a decent living. So we had the courts garnish her wages. She only sees the kids once a year when we fly them out to see her (she lives on the east coast, we west coast). Just a few weeks ago it was the 11 year old's bday and instead of her flying out to be here for that (she never flies out for their bdays or xmas or anything), she went on vacation to Costa Rica. I was so pissed and felt bad for her kid. I am afraid those kids will have very messed up relationships later on in life (especially with females) when it finally hits them. Anyhow, that's that. We do the best we can.
My parents were another set of people who should not have had kids but had them because that was what everyone did in the 70's. My dad was an abusive, controlling alcoholic (unemployed half the time) and my mom a very timid wife very afraid of my father. My sister and I had to endure years of physical and emotional abuse and it's no mystery why I haven't seen my dad in 7 years. I still struggle with my past a lot and I sometimes wonder had I grown up in a loving household would I have wanted children. I do have pretty intense mom type feelings but just let those loose on my animals. I don't have them with kids. I think babies are often cute to see for a few minutes but I don't want to hold one or have one. I will happily clean up dog crepe or cat vomit but I will gag when I see a baby drool or puke.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:29 am 
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For anyone who's interested, there are a couple of threads about people's sterilization experiences (both traditional TL and Essure).

Please tell me about tubal ligation...

Sterilization: the procedure

I actually ended up getting both procedures done because it turned out they couldn't do the Essure on my left side, which I guess puts me in the odd position of being able to directly compare experiences. I'd say both procedures have their advantages and disadvantages. If anyone wants to PM me, please feel free.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:48 am 
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Shy Mox wrote:

You know I remember when I first looked into getting an IUD, I was told I was way too young (and of course too young for sterilization), now I know girls who were my age at the time who have them. And aside from the PPK I didn't know anyone who spoke of them positively, because you should wait til you have kids because an IUD could supposedly possibly do real damage to your uterus.



I had to go through a few birth control options, some faulty (using a diaphragm I ended up having to have an abortion when it failed). The Nuva Ring that was a yeast infection - depression party...Then an IUD, which they ended up giving me the wrong one.

I was like 'give me an IUD Please!', they just said to do it when I was on my period and pop a low dose pain pill...

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:07 am 
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missmuffcake wrote:
my boyfriend thinks that I should get another IUD...My parents are on the same page as him...I am looking into it and seeing all my options.


I don't mean to be rude but GIRL WHY ARE YOUR PARENTS INVOLVED IN YOUR VAGINA? I love and respect my parents but there is no way they have (or would have had three years ago) a role or a say in my reproductive choices. I think it's a good idea to involve your boyfriend with your birth control decisions and weigh his opinions, but ultimately it's YOUR body and YOU have final say. If you know for a fact that you don't ever want kids, you should go for the Essure. The rest of 'em can like it or lump it!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:32 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:

I don't mean to be rude but GIRL WHY ARE YOUR PARENTS INVOLVED IN YOUR VAGINA? I love and respect my parents but there is no way they have (or would have had three years ago) a role or a say in my reproductive choices. I think it's a good idea to involve your boyfriend with your birth control decisions and weigh his opinions, but ultimately it's YOUR body and YOU have final say. If you know for a fact that you don't ever want kids, you should go for the Essure. The rest of 'em can like it or lump it!



We were just talking about birth control, my parents and I are very open. My parents are verrryyyy overprotective and when I said 'surgery' they got scared. It is not about the form of birth control, they are cool with not having children, they just do not want me to die on a doctor's table.

I do have a final say to a certain degree...Planned Parenthood will ultimately be the thing that is the deciding factor. I do not have the $$$ for medical care or insurance. PP has the IUD option, I am not sure about the other option.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Re: losing friends. The one friend I mentioned before recently said something to the effect of wanting to enjoy doing things now before she's 35 with two kids.

I was like :(


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:23 pm 
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missmuffcake wrote:

We were just talking about birth control, my parents and I are very open. My parents are verrryyyy overprotective and when I said 'surgery' they got scared. It is not about the form of birth control, they are cool with not having children, they just do not want me to die on a doctor's table.

I do have a final say to a certain degree...Planned Parenthood will ultimately be the thing that is the deciding factor. I do not have the $$$ for medical care or insurance. PP has the IUD option, I am not sure about the other option.


When placing an IUD, the doctor enters vaginally and has to breach the cervix to reach the uterus, and after a short recovery, you go home right as rain.

When placing Essure, the doctor enters vaginally and has to breach the cervix to reach the uterus, and after a short recovery, you go home right as rain.

As for the cost aspect, go get yourself signed up with the State of California Health Access Programs. It covers a glut of reproductive health care options, including permanent birth control. With that assistance, my Essure ended up costing me under $300.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:44 pm 
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supercarrot wrote:
and now that we're back on the retirement home subject, i'll quote my earlier comment (which seemed to get lost in the scuffle)

supercarrot wrote:
i had been thinking lately about what i would do in old age, especially if i'm the last to go. i don't really have any young family members that seem to like me enough to take care of me, or at least check in from time to time. (although the nieces and nephews are still growing into their personalities, i might be wrong) so i was thinking about a retirement community for childfree vegans, especially elders. that'd be awesome! we'd all take care of each other. that's what i'd do if i happened to make a lot of money. we'd have a vet's office on the grounds, and if one of us dies leaving pets, we'd adopt them within the community. (and since we'd have no heirs, our money would go into the community to make it easier for the other residents.) there'd be a button next to our beds that we'd have to press in the morning to check in, and if you didn't press it, someone would come around and check on you.

In all seriousness, I do think about this a lot. Right now my strategy is to start squirreling away money so I can pay for a home care assistant, which I know will be expensive but I really would like to remain in my own home until the end and not get stuck in a nursing home. I think it will be really interesting what our generation comes up with wrt geriatric care. I'd like to see some sort of housing cooperatives form for people with similar interests.

One thing I was thinking about lately was how a few of my friends with kids complain to us CFers about how "rich" we are. I usually just laugh it off, but it really bugs me a lot. I'm not rich; we're just supporting 2 people on our combined income instead of 5 so we have more money to spend on frivolous things. Not sure where I'm going with this, maybe just venting and curious if anyone else has gotten this.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:55 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
One thing I was thinking about lately was how a few of my friends with kids complain to us CFers about how "rich" we are. I usually just laugh it off, but it really bugs me a lot. I'm not rich; we're just supporting 2 people on our combined income instead of 5 so we have more money to spend on frivolous things. Not sure where I'm going with this, maybe just venting and curious if anyone else has gotten this.


None of my close friends have reproduced yet, so this hasn't been a major issue (though several are entering the planning stages and one couple is expecting later this year), but I have gotten or heard friends get statements such as, "Oh, you think you're broke now? Just wait till you have kids!"

A) Who says kids will happen?

B) If kids do happen (for whomever is being addressed), who says that the person won't wait to have a kid until they feel secure in their financial situation? I know I wouldn't even contemplate reproducing right now because I know there's no way I could support a child. So yes, I DO think I'm broke now, thank you very much! Whether or not I have a baby doesn't mean I'm not broke!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:55 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
One thing I was thinking about lately was how a few of my friends with kids complain to us CFers about how "rich" we are. I usually just laugh it off, but it really bugs me a lot. I'm not rich; we're just supporting 2 people on our combined income instead of 5 so we have more money to spend on frivolous things. Not sure where I'm going with this, maybe just venting and curious if anyone else has gotten this.


The money thing bugs me too. I don't like when my friends with kids poke about money and assume I'm "rich", when really 1. I live paycheque ot paycheque, and 2. most of my disposable income goes to paying off enormous student loans. At the same time, one of the many reasons I don't want children is financial--I have no idea how people can afford to have kids, send them to school, etc... I can barely keep myself and my dog afloat. That said, I do enjoy spending money on travel and cultural experiences when I can, and I like that as a single person w/o kids I can basically be completely independent and go/do whatever I want when I want without having the arrange things with others.

I really worry about retirement and money. As has been pointed out so wisely, there is obviously no guarantee that and kids would visit/provide care, but I worry I won't be able to save enough so that I can take care of myself when I'm older.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Similar to parents commenting about how CF people have more money... sort of... I think.

I had a woman I worked who had one who had a toddler and a baby say to me one day "You're lucky, you get to sit and relax when you get home from work and do whatever you want."
Um, no, I'm not "lucky" - I planned it this way and you could have planned it this way too if you so chose. Luck was not a factor.
I just found that that was a really interesting way for her to put that.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:02 pm 
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And yes I do not know how most people with kids afford it. My husband and I are NOT rolling in money. Just taking the dogs to the vet can be hugely expensive. I honestly cannot even fathom what adding all the expenses of children would do to our budget. I think it would not be financially possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
When placing Essure, the doctor enters vaginally and has to breach the cervix to reach the uterus, and after a short recovery, you go home right as rain.


This wasn't the case for me. I needed oxygen because I turned blue and I was on heavy painkillers for the rest of the day. It took several days to feel ok again. Still, I regret nothing!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:

As for the cost aspect, go get yourself signed up with the State of California Health Access Programs. It covers a glut of reproductive health care options, including permanent birth control. With that assistance, my Essure ended up costing me under $300.



I will look into Health Access. I have Family Pact which is through PP.

Can I ask if you had an IUD? If so is there a difference now than with the IUD? I get really bad sharp pains in my uterus at times and I believe it is from the IUD. PP could not find anything wrong with me though.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Fee wrote:
Sometimes I look at my bank balance and cry.

what's a bank balance?
(we mis-managed our quickly growing credit card debt for 5 years, and we're now finally making a dent. hopefully within 5-7 years we'll have it paid off. and then we can start tackling the school loans. i predict we'll be able to START putting away for retirement when we're 45 years old.)

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:38 pm 
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On a personal level, I kind of hate when people bring up money in the context of having kids versus not having kids. I know that caring for children is expensive but I don't think it's very funny when people are like, "Oh, I have kids so I'm 'broke' all the time, hardy har har."

First of all, some people seem to have some real screwy definitions of "broke." When I was little my parents were very young and didn't make much money and I had a great childhood, so I don't think you necessarily have to be financially "set" to be a responsible parent. But complaining about how much your kids are costing you when you're buying all this yuppie kid shiitake just kinda skeeves me out.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:48 pm 
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I definitely want to have my debt paid off before I even really consider kids. Not that I'm thinking I'll have kids, but if I were to. Basically it just buys me time. And I guess that's something that makes me feel bad is that I don't have a super strong opinion either way. I mean, I'm not going to have kids unless I feel really, really strongly about it. I also don't necessarily feel focused on my career like maybe I should be, so I can say things like, oh you know, I'm a career gal. (Most of what I've been reading has been set in the 1950s; can you tell?)

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Yeah, one of my co-workers was once all 'I have kids and a mortgage' when I asked him if he was going to go see Henry Hank Rolo when he was in town. I have a mortgage, and six furry kids who are cheaper than human kids, but people without kids have expenses too! And we don't get tax breaks or WIC for pets, so if you have student loans or credit card debt, you can be pretty effin' broke. There are a lot of factors that go into how much free money someone has, it's not as simple as kids vs. no kids.

I am so cheap, i'm one of those people who ALWAYS looks at the sale section first. I troll the back aisles at Target when I feel the need to shop, and most times I don't buy any of it because I still don't need it. If I need makeup, I wait until ELF or someone is having some sort of sale and then I buy a shitload. Brian and I wait for the bi-yearly Steam sales to go crazy on PC games. Amazon MP3 has 100 albums for $5 every month and a daily deal, I always check those out when I feel like I need new music.

I know that you can't do that with a lot of stuff for kids, like doctors appointments, but I think that how you shop is a bigger factor in how much of your income is 'free'. You can buy second-hand or clearance toys and clothes for your kids, i've known people who refuse to do that because that's for the REAL poor people and my kid gets better blah blah. Same with coupons. Obviously if you don't make a lot, you don't make a lot and if you have debts, you have debts, but there are ways for everyone to make our dollars go further that are easy and available to everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:06 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
You can buy second-hand or clearance toys and clothes for your kids, i've known people who refuse to do that because that's for the REAL poor people and my kid gets better blah blah.

Yeah, I don't understand why some people are snobs about that sort of thing. One of my cousins (who is not "rich" and has a five-year-old daughter) was talking about how "gross" it was of one of the parents she knew to buy their kid jeans at the Goodwill. Why is it gross? As long as it's clean I don't see why it matters. When the kid gets older she might know the difference and feel self-conscious about it, but up to a certain age all clothes and toys are basically just drool/dirt sponges anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:20 pm 
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I basically work off the assumption that I won't make it to an age where I have to worry about having someone help me take care of myself. My body is so terrible at functioning properly that I doubt I'm going to get to be an old person.

Or I'll be kicked in the head by a cow or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:17 pm 
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I had a friend who was always bemoaning the fact that I receive help from my father (living trust). However she received $ from her father, the government and SSI every month - but it was OK because she has kids! She was really toxic about things like this, the fact I have a relationship and do not want a family. I stopped talking to her.

I am lucky and fortunate enough to own some designer things (I try to go for quality over fast fashion), get to go to concerts, own my house...I do not hold it over people's heads. I try to give as much as I can because I feel fortunate, from feeding the homeless to helping feral cats.

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