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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:28 pm 
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acr wrote:
that's totally something a wasp would say. is your husband a wasp? like a giant, alien wasp using a human body as a puppet/cloak?



oooohhhh, yeah. That will happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:51 am 
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I really like the article you posted, Isa, and want to draw on my forehead the one about "My life didn't have meaning before I had kids!" and "Is this a kid-friendly party?", and "You think you're tired, try having kids." Well, all of them, actually.

Three more of my colleagues/friends just announced they are pregnant. Of the 30 or so junior people where I work, that means that there are only three women left without kids, and I think all the straight men have kids. It's feeling lonelier and lonelier. I never realized that being a single woman without kids in my 30s could feel so radical. I honestly think it freaks people out. I spend most of my time with my great friends, almost all of whom are gay men. It's odd to work somewhere known for being left wing and politically progressive, and to find the gender norms so antiquated. It's the most heteronormative, coupled, baby-producing place I've ever worked, and the skepticism towards single people/people without kids is astonishing.

I am so tired of spending so much money on baby and wedding presents. When I complained about this to my mother, and commented that it's hard to get by alone on one salary in terms of nice kitchen and house things, etc.... she said that I had never done anything "socially recognized," and thus would never be able to reap the thousands of dollars of presents Americans like to give hetero married/baby-producing people. Thanks, mom.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:17 am 
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I hate the 'my life didn't have meaning before kids' one. So insensitive, especially to women who want kids but can't conceive.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:32 am 
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blondiefk wrote:
I hate the 'my life didn't have meaning before kids' one. So insensitive, especially to women who want kids but can't conceive.

Actually, I think it's especially insensitive to everyone: people wise lives were meaningful before kids; people who don't want kids;people who want kids but for whatever reason can't have them; mothers with severe post-partum depression. It's just such a obnoxious thing to say, it makes me want to puke.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:18 pm 
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soooo last night, seemingly out of left field, my boyfriend got very broody and started talking about wanting kids, and badly. It caught me really off guard and has left me feeling kind of bummed out today. I told him that I'm not completely opposed to the idea of adoption (I'm already sterilized), just that I don't know if/when there will be a time in my life when I decide to proceed with that.

We've been together almost a year now, and while I really like him and really want to stay together, this gives me major pause. I don't want him to stay with me banking on my likelihood to adopt, because I can't guarantee that I will eventually hit that moment where having a kid makes sense to me. I don't want him to resent me for that if we end up staying together and childless. I texted him about talking again, so I guess we'll delve more into it and I'll have to decide whether it was a passing mood or if this is potentially a dealbreaker. Really bummed, because I love my bf and he is awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:51 pm 
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That is a bummer, Erika. Hopefully the two of you can come to an understanding that makes you both happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Olives wrote:
blondiefk wrote:
I hate the 'my life didn't have meaning before kids' one. So insensitive, especially to women who want kids but can't conceive.

Actually, I think it's especially insensitive to everyone: people wise lives were meaningful before kids; people who don't want kids;people who want kids but for whatever reason can't have them; mothers with severe post-partum depression. It's just such a obnoxious thing to say, it makes me want to puke.


I'm a mommy who spent the first year of my child's life gushing over how much being her mother changed my life and how wonderful she is. I'm still gushing but I keep it more to myself now as I understand there's only so much people can take of hearing how much I love being a mom. But I have to say the "my life didn't have meaning before kids thing" is just a sad and tragic thing to say. Really? No meaning? Not one great thing was happening in your life before kids?

I had a full, fantastic, wonderful life before my daughter, one that has only become better with her in it. Now that she's here I can honestly say she's the best part of life. But I would never just throw out the first 30 years of my life as nothing - they were everything! They made me the person (and the mother) I am today.

I've always wanted to be a mom and so the experience has been everything I thought it would be and more. But just because this was my choice doesn't mean that I think it should be everyone elses choice too. I applaud women (and men) who can proudly proclaim that they do not want children. I think of the women for generations and generations who were forced to have children because of the expected role of women (and the women all around the world who are still in this position) and my heart breaks for them. It is so fantastic to live in a time and a place where women can make these choices and do what is right for them and their lives.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
soooo last night, seemingly out of left field


This sucks hard. I hope it ends up just being an emo moment because I'm sure you've been upfront all along and if this were a thing for him it's kind of late to be brooding about it now.

Gah. Crossing my fingers for you and wishing you the best. Maybe he's just having a wee existential crisis.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:06 pm 
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~Sz wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
soooo last night, seemingly out of left field


This sucks hard. I hope it ends up just being an emo moment because I'm sure you've been upfront all along and if this were a thing for him it's kind of late to be brooding about it now.

Gah. Crossing my fingers for you and wishing you the best. Maybe he's just having a wee existential crisis.


I hope so, he was acting kind of unusual all evening. I have been upfront, and he knows I am sterilized. I think he wanted to see how firm I was on the "no kids" thing, and perhaps even float the idea of him co-parenting with someone else by me...? Which I think I would be okay with, but like I said, this seems to come out of left field, especially the urgency of it. It's an awkward time in our relationship for this to come up- we haven't been together long enough for me to feel confident riding out big changes like him becoming a father, but we've also firmly crossed over from casual dating into LTR territory.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
he knows I am sterilized. I think he wanted to see how firm I was on the "no kids" thing


I mean, I think that would be self-evident?

I guess, for me, not reproducing has a lot to do with keeping my impact on the earth to a minimum, so for me, this would be a yes to adoption or foster parenting, but a no to adding a new life to the world. Being sterilized speaks to that, to me. (In my case, Mr. Sz did the fixing, otherwise, I would have.)

I would be curious to know if this is coming from somewhere else, like maybe he's lost someone close to him recently, or it's the anniversary of a loved one's death?


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:22 pm 
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^ Well, that was awkwardly written. Just wanted to emphasize that I am only speaking for myself. I do like little ones!


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:24 am 
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Hugs, Erika. That would throw me for such a major loop.

I thought of this thread the other day, because I was at a 5-year-old's party, and of course there were kids everywhere. THREE times, another grown up asked me "which one is yours?" Of course they were just being polite and such, but it made me feel weird. I guess I was the only non-parent adult there. She's my goddaughter, which is why I was there. Anyway, the thing left me feeling weird, and I knew you all would understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:56 am 
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Someone posted this on LinkedIn and I thought it was interesting (disclaimer: I'm not saying anything about the intelligence of parents, correlation is not causation, yada yada yada):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2384787/Too-clever-mother-The-maternal-urge-decreases-QUARTER-15-extra-IQ-points.html

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:06 am 
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Plus I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts that has anything remotely to do with gender!

Thanks for the kind thoughts, everyone. I am still in kind of a funk about this because I honestly don't see any way out of this other than to break up, but I'm hoping I am wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:38 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Plus I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts that has anything remotely to do with gender!


Fair. I Googled it and other news sources talked about the study. I tried a search in Google Scholar but couldn't find a peer-reviewed article. Apparently it's discussed in Satoshi Kanazawa's book The Intelligence Paradox, which I haven't read, so I'm not saying anything about the validity of the study.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:41 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Plus I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts that has anything remotely to do with gender!


I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts full stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:03 pm 
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lobsteriffic wrote:
Apparently it's discussed in Satoshi Kanazawa's book The Intelligence Paradox, which I haven't read, so I'm not saying anything about the validity of the study.


Woah- I just read an article on HuffPo about elective childlessness and saw Kanazawa quoted. This is what he said:

Quote:
"If any value is deeply evolutionarily familiar, it is reproductive success. If any value is truly unnatural, if there is one thing that humans (and all other species in nature) are decisively not designed for, it is voluntary childlessness. All living organisms in nature, including humans, are evolutionarily designed to reproduce. Reproductive success is the ultimate end of all biological existence."


Obviously that doesn't discredit any studies that have been done which he may have quoted. But it certainly discredits him and his stupidpants opinion in my mind!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-wa ... 20480.html

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
lobsteriffic wrote:
Apparently it's discussed in Satoshi Kanazawa's book The Intelligence Paradox, which I haven't read, so I'm not saying anything about the validity of the study.


Woah- I just read an article on HuffPo about elective childlessness and saw Kanazawa quoted. This is what he said:

Quote:
"If any value is deeply evolutionarily familiar, it is reproductive success. If any value is truly unnatural, if there is one thing that humans (and all other species in nature) are decisively not designed for, it is voluntary childlessness. All living organisms in nature, including humans, are evolutionarily designed to reproduce. Reproductive success is the ultimate end of all biological existence."


Obviously that doesn't discredit any studies that have been done which he may have quoted. But it certainly discredits him and his stupidpants opinion in my mind!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-wa ... 20480.html


Yikes! I mean, I get that he's an evolutionary psychologist, and in evolution, broadly speaking, "success" = passing on your genes, but wow. I didn't mean to open up such a can of worms!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:56 pm 
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jogirl wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Plus I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts that has anything remotely to do with gender!


I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts full stop.


Ha, that's exactly what I was going to say!

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:38 pm 
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Kanazawa is the guy who wrote a piece for for Psychology Today called "Why Are Black Women Ugly?", so I think it's safe to say that he's full of it. Gross.

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Jigglypuff wrote:
a piece for for Psychology Today called "Why Are Black Women Ugly?"


SAY WHAAAAAAAAAA

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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Beyond not trusting the Daily Mail, don't trust anybody who is described as an evolutionary psychologist. That is code for "able to sound sciencey in support of racism and sexism, without having to do any scientific inquiry whatsoever."

ETA: The point of his "research" that was quoted in the Daily Mail, I assume, is to substantiate the idea that it's better for women to be dumb and that's how you'll get the men to like you. I don't think he was trying to give anybody a compliment for being childfree.


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 Post subject: Re: Women who have chosen not to have kids
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:19 pm 
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jogirl wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Plus I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts that has anything remotely to do with gender!

I don't trust anything the Daily Mail posts full stop.

they're also a pretty ideologically terrible organization, and i really don't want to give them any pageviews. here's an alternate link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... er-IQ.html (the Telegraph is a right-leaning publication, but not awful, as far as i know)

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