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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:56 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Ariann wrote:
Thank God we are not France. For so, so many reasons.


I didn't particularly want to go there, but yeah, there is a lot wrong with the French approach to national language. Including the forcible extinction of native minority languages (my grandparents live in the French part of Basque country, and a couple of generations ago children who were caught speaking Basque in school were snitched on by their peers and beaten by their teachers. Same went for Britton, Corsican, Chtimi, Occitan, etc.) The current treatment of bilingual children as pre-criminals. The prescriptivist nonsense that is the Academie Francaise. Not to mention that BeforeWisdom's example only holds because our migrant population (unlike migrants to the US) mostly comes from our former colonies and therefore already have had French violently imposed upon them.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:28 am 
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beforewisdom wrote:
Anytime I have seen the "English as the national (US) language" debate come up, I always see a communication fail.

People who ask why shouldn't English be the language of the US automatically get dismissed as racists who aren't asking an honest question. If a bunch of people from New York emigrated to France most people would think it would be inappropriate for the New Yorkers to refuse to learn French and to ask the French to put more things in English.

Why not the same view for people emigrating to the United States?

Having one language as opposed to several has many practical benefits.


Can you explain to me what the practical benefits are of not providing language assitance to those who need it when accessing goods and services? Because that's what these discussions are generally about. People act as if by providing translation services to the communities that need them (often vulnerable communities) it's like they're being denied English language services. But it's not like English language services are going to be eliminated. It's an extra; it's not taking anything away from anyone. So what's the point in codifying English as "The Language of the US"?

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:36 am 
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In any case, if English were to become the official language of the US, the only consequence would be that all official documents and communications must have at least an English version (which de facto is already the case). It will not mean that it will be forbidden for there to be a Spanish version; in fact many countries provide translations of official forms and stuff in languages that aren't official.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:41 am 
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linanil wrote:
So I have one today, I'm so confused...

My parents are both extremely liberal, they both speak spanish and are active in the Mexican-American community in their city. My mom has a Facebook account but my stepdad also uses it but my mom gets mad if he posts on it. I should also say that my stepfather's parents never spoke english despite being born in the US and we have relatives on our side that are similar.

So anyway, I see on my mom's FB page this...
Image

I'm so confused... did someone hijack my mom's FB page? haha

Oh gosh I can see my dad posting something like that if he had a facebook account. Thank goodness he doesn't and just sends those terrible all caps chain emails.

I think there's a bit of truth to both sides. If the majority of your town's population doesn't speak English as a first language it's super helpful to have resources in spanish, vietnamese, hindi or whatever language the immigrant community speaks. And at the same time, coming from such a community as an english speaker, it can be extremely frustrating to have neighbors who refuse to talk to you or expect you to to speak to them in their native language. It's complicated but seeing as how English speakers are still the privileged class in the us, it seems pretty petty to be resentful of such accommodations.

eta: the only thing that directly affected me, living in a spanish-speaking community, was that as an "advanced" student I was placed in a bilingual classroom where half the class time was spent teaching in English and half in Spanish. It effectively cut instruction time in half but the rationale was that advanced students weren't expected to be affected by it. I don't know what would have happened. My parents hear the resources to put me in a private, english speaking school. Probably the lack of resources and large class sizes of that public elementary school would have had more negative consequences than a bilingual classroom.

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Last edited by couroupita on Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:44 am 
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Yeah, I don't even think these people know what English being the official language would entail. German is the official language in Germany. We still have doctors practices where most people speak only Turkish. I used to go to one all the time (because I live in an area of the city that is turkish-dominated) and I don't get the big deal. Obviously the people working there speak German, too. It's just providing something for the people living here who aren't that fluent in German, especially older people.

I think it's mostly racism and people being uncomfortable when they're around people they can't understand. And that is not going to change by making one language the official language.

I just remembered when I went to school in Holland in 2006 there was a public discussion happening about whether it should be forbidden to speak any other language than Dutch on the street. We had a discussion about it and school too and it was crazy how many people agreed with it!


Edit: I just realized Germany actually does have other official minority languages in some regions. There's Danish, Yeniche, Low German, Frankonian, Limburgish, Guelderish, Sorbian, several Frisian languages, Romani... Just didn't want to spread misinformation.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:10 am 
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Back to FB awkwardness, I just accidentally sent a friend request to a non-PPK friend of Desdemona's while scrolling through FB's friend suggestion on my iPad. (Stoopid clumsy fingers.) Luckily I could figure out pretty quickly how to cancel the request and hopefully they didn't get notification that this crazy woman who they don't know and have never heard of wants to be friends.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:30 am 
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kfad wrote:
allularpunk wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
I think the most awkward thing i've ever seen on facebook is someone talking shiitake about another person and either not realizing or just not caring that they're friends with the person.


This has happened to me! I was like...does this person not realize we are facebook friends? Except I know they do because we interact on facebook? Passive aggression at its best!


Being on the receiving end of that nonsense not fun. I have actually "unfriended" people in real life for doing that to me.


It made me pretty mad, but since we were internet friends only, I just unfriended and moved on. It's harder when it's someone you have to see in real life, for sure!

(Not to say that I don't value my internet pals any less than my real life pals! I just don't see them.)

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:51 am 
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couroupita wrote:
Oh gosh I can see my dad posting something like that if he had a facebook account. Thank goodness he doesn't and just sends those terrible all caps chain emails.

I think there's a bit of truth to both sides. If the majority of your town's population doesn't speak English as a first language it's super helpful to have resources in spanish, vietnamese, hindi or whatever language the immigrant community speaks. And at the same time, coming from such a community as an english speaker, it can be extremely frustrating to have neighbors who refuse to talk to you or expect you to to speak to them in their native language. It's complicated but seeing as how English speakers are still the privileged class in the us, it seems pretty petty to be resentful of such accommodations.

eta: the only thing that directly affected me, living in a spanish-speaking community, was that as an "advanced" student I was placed in a bilingual classroom where half the class time was spent teaching in English and half in Spanish. It effectively cut instruction time in half but the rationale was that advanced students weren't expected to be affected by it. I don't know what would have happened. My parents hear the resources to put me in a private, english speaking school. Probably the lack of resources and large class sizes of that public elementary school would have had more negative consequences than a bilingual classroom.


And the part that I left out is although english was common in the city and community I grew up in as we were pretty multi-racial, where my stepfather grew up was a small farming community in central California where only Mexicans lived. We went to the doctor's office with his mother when she was alive and everything was in spanish. Everyone in the town spoke spanish and since the main language of farming in California is spanish, you don't need english for anything except for dealing with services outside your town.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:04 am 
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creep wrote:
A coworker defriended me today and made a big show about it with a couple other people who happened to be in the room. Apparently, my posts are "too depressing." I mean, they probably are, but it's usually in jest... like, "let's laugh about how dumb and awkward life is!" kind of stuff, not like "I HATE MY LIFE!"

It's cool if people don't want to be friends with coworkers, period, or even if they don't want to read my posts, but I feel like it makes shiitake really forking awkward when they defriend one coworker they have to see every day, plus the whole telling everyone about it, when I wouldn't have even noticed if someone hadn't mentioned the whole dramatic show to me.

I don't particularly care whether we're facebook friends or not. It just feels kind of weird and passive aggressive, like she's trying to send some message without actually saying anything to me.


This sort of happened to me, too. I was "friends" (as friends as you can be with a co-worker in the context of only ever seeing them at work and not hanging out with them outside of it) with a co-worker. We were friends on Facebook and Instagram, and I'm pretty selective of who from work I have on there, but she was one of a few. Anyway, when I got laid off, I posted a couple things about it. One was saying, "I'm losing my job." and the other was saying, "I may be a pawn on a corporate chessboard, but this pawn is going to try her hardest to fight." Anyway, she deleted me. I actually didn't put two and two together because I thought what I said was so innocent, I wasn't directly bashing the company or naming names, but I was being real about what was happening in my life.

Anyway, fast forward 3 months, and she finally arranges a coffee date with me. She tells me that she deleted me because she thought my posts were extremely negative and reflected poorly on my work ethic. Um, lady. I worked for a company for 4 years, on contract, being promised each time I was handed an ADDITIONAL job role that I would be hired permanently eventually. Then, when it came time for that to happen, they dumped my sorry asparagus. Do I not have reason to be upset? Do I not have a right to seek support from friends on Facebook?

So I said to her that I use my social media to be real about life, and not just posting the good because I find that to set an unrealistic standard for what life is like. She disagreed, and thinks it should only be used for posting cute pictures of your kids and saying things that could leverage your career (not verbatim, but pretty much).

I felt really angry that someone who I let in to read my friends-only posts would just drop me like a hot potato like that. I mean, wouldn't it have been appropriate, if she found what I said offensive, to send me a message and say, "hey dude! That was super negative, consider deleting that!" I would be way more receptive to that than being deleted and excommunicated for 3 months without ever knowing what I did wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:08 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
I felt really angry that someone who I let in to read my friends-only posts would just drop me like a hot potato like that. I mean, wouldn't it have been appropriate, if she found what I said offensive, to send me a message and say, "hey dude! That was super negative, consider deleting that!" I would be way more receptive to that than being deleted and excommunicated for 3 months without ever knowing what I did wrong.


Ugh, PP, that sucks, I'm sorry that happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:15 am 
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Yeah, I was actually really upset about it. It put me into this weird shame spiral, feeling bad for being me, and who I am is a pretty candid and open person. She really made me feel guilty and ashamed for seeking support on Facebook. Bah.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:18 am 
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There is only one coworker I am friends with on FB because she is one of the sane ones. The other ones? No way. My husband was surprised I would friend a coworker. I know you can create groups but I rather not try to friend coworkers and then create groups for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:07 am 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
I think the most awkward thing i've ever seen on facebook is someone talking shiitake about another person and either not realizing or just not caring that they're friends with the person.


I'm amazed how reckless people are on FB in this day and age with all sorts of stories in the news about things people saying on FB doing serious damage to jobs,relationships, money, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:10 am 
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creep wrote:
A coworker defriended me today and made a big show about it with a couple other people who happened to be in the room. Apparently, my posts are "too depressing." I mean, they probably are, but it's usually in jest... like, "let's laugh about how dumb and awkward life is!" kind of stuff, not like "I HATE MY LIFE!"


I think the people that have separate FB pages for coworkers and everyone else are very smart. I see it in the same way as not mixing personal and professional email in the same account. Wow, what a hurtful thing to deal with.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:12 am 
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lobsteriffic wrote:
supercarrot wrote:
dude, it's 1! it's not like we have to press 5!


Yeah, I feel like pressing 1 on the telephone takes 5 seconds, I certainly don't feel hard done by.


I personally don't care. I think for people who do care it is not about the effort of pressing a button. I think it is about feeling that their home is becoming less like their home.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:21 am 
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Now I'm feeling a little guilty about my defriending! I'll do it easily for no reason at all like if I don't recognize your name. Or you post with hashtags. Or my biggest vanity cause - you never like or comment on my statuses, pictures , etc. which is just me thinking hey maybe I annoy you. I hope people don't feel mad or sad about it. I just never notice when defriended so I assumed others don't either.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:28 am 
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Fee wrote:
Or my biggest vanity cause - you never like or comment on my statuses, pictures , etc. which is just me thinking hey maybe I annoy you.


this is why facebook is so hard! i'm always concerned about liking or commenting too much, because i'm afraid that will be annoying or seem, like, internet clingy or something.

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Last edited by acr on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:29 am 
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acr wrote:
Fee wrote:
Or my biggest vanity cause - you never like or comment on my statuses, pictures , etc. which is just me thinking hey maybe I annoy you.


this is why facebook is so hard! i'm always concerned that i'm liking or commenting too much, because i'm afraid that will be annoying or seem, like, internet clingy or something.


This! I have a few PPK friends on FB and I'm worried if I like their posts too much they'll think I'm being weird or annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:38 am 
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I have one or two friend who will "like" every FB post I make. It doesn't offend me nor do I think it is weird. I take it as a friendly gesture. I also love getting comments on my posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:44 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Yeah, I was actually really upset about it. It put me into this weird shame spiral, feeling bad for being me, and who I am is a pretty candid and open person. She really made me feel guilty and ashamed for seeking support on Facebook. Bah.

Turn that shiitake around. If someone is only your friend if you post fluff on the bookery, then I wouldn't consider them much of a friend anyway. Sometimes life is tough and it is damn well fine to talk about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am 
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The funny thing is I normally wouldn't notice if someone unfriended me, but I found out because I went to go to her profile so I could click "message" and send her a message about how I'm grateful for the support she's given me during this tough time and that I hope we can stay in touch. I saw she unfriended me, sent her a message instead saying that I hope I hadn't done anything to offend her, and never heard back for 3 months. She avoided me for the rest of the time I worked there, and then one day in August she messaged me on LinkedIn (the only place we were still connected). It really hurt my feelings!

When we met up for coffee, my main objective was to find out what I had done wrong. She pretty much came out and told me the moment we sat down, so clearly it bothered her a lot. She pretty much said, "I unfriended you because...the things you were saying around that time were really negative." So I went back and looked, and all I said were those two things. I still don't get it.

ETA: Trevor says, "is there any chance she's just a bisque and you were just able to look past it until now?"

PPS: This is why I pretty much only pay attention to PPKers on there. Y'all are the best there is.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:56 am 
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beforewisdom wrote:
lobsteriffic wrote:
supercarrot wrote:
dude, it's 1! it's not like we have to press 5!


Yeah, I feel like pressing 1 on the telephone takes 5 seconds, I certainly don't feel hard done by.


I personally don't care. I think for people who do care it is not about the effort of pressing a button. I think it is about feeling that their home is becoming less like their home.

I'm pretty confident there's a word for that...

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:11 am 
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What would that be?

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:25 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Facebook Awkwardness
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:34 am 
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I think that is certainly the case with many people.

I don't think it is the case with every person though. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread about older immigrants not picking up a language, change can be harder for older people. Seeing your home change dramatically around you can be very threatening to many people. Especially if it involves an influx of people you can't communicate with.

That isn't the same thing as a fear or hatred of foreigners.

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