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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:09 pm 
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erawka wrote:
von m wrote:
Drives me nuts too, but you did the right thing by not saying anything. It is confusing for some when they are starting out. Getting her vegan cookbooks is great, especially ones that do some explaining. She'll learn lots from you as you are leading by example. I'm a great believer of gentle persuasion. Too much preachiness and lecturing turns people off.

And baking vegan treats for her, too! What's more gentle and persuasive than brownies? She'll learn that she doesn't miss out on anything because of her ethical/health/eco/whatever choices in a delicious, delicious way.

Oh god yes, forgot about baking!


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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:17 pm 
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pyroFOODiak wrote:
FootFace wrote:
But "vegetarian" certainly doesn't mean "eating less meat."
You can say you're a nonsmoker when all you mean by that is that you're down to half a pack a day, but that doesn't make you a coherent person.


well you could say that you are a vegetarian but would it mean that you are vegan? I am arguing that it is a spectrum, and from someone on the outside looking in, it is all the same. and quite frankly the widespread smugness is a huge turn off. every journey begins with a first step and all that.


How in the world is it smug to say that vegetarian means not eating animals? Look, you can call yourself anything you like. No one's going to sue you if you say you're vegetarian but eat chickens, fish, cows, or pigs. But if it's reasonable to call yourself a vegetarian when you eat animals, I am going to start calling myself a Martian because I'm from Earth.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:28 pm 
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philadelphegan wrote:
Scruffleupagus wrote:
We were driving to have a wonderful lunch at Loving Hut when she said it. "Well... I am doing the vegetarian thing... I'm not eating beef or any red meat... But I'll still be having chicken and fish".


You could tell her you are doing the marriage thing, but you'll still be having dates and casual one-night stands.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:46 pm 
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pyroFOODiak wrote:
FootFace wrote:
But "vegetarian" certainly doesn't mean "eating less meat."
You can say you're a nonsmoker when all you mean by that is that you're down to half a pack a day, but that doesn't make you a coherent person.


well you could say that you are a vegetarian but would it mean that you are vegan? I am arguing that it is a spectrum, and from someone on the outside looking in, it is all the same. and quite frankly the widespread smugness is a huge turn off. every journey begins with a first step and all that.



I don't agree that it's all the same to them. I know a lot of non-vegetarians who know the definition of vegetarian and wouldn't call themselves that if they ate chicken or fish. I know people who call themselves vegetarian and still eat meat, too, but they're in the minority. Being smug is pretty bad but so is underestimating the intelligence of everyone who isn't vegetarian.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:18 pm 
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I've probably met more 'vegetarians' of the meat eating kind than not. Like the person who would exclude certain items like pepperoni pizza, the fish eating kind and I was even reading a review of a vegetarian cookbook on amazon that includes poultry recipes.

I personally never thought vegetarians eat meat but somehow there seem to be a lot of people that believe that.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:25 pm 
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I would say something if I were you. Probably along the lines of, "That's great that you're wanting to go veg! Though chicken and fish aren't vegetables..." I can't let things like misusing a clearly defined thing go.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:36 pm 
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linanil wrote:
I've probably met more 'vegetarians' of the meat eating kind than not. Like the person who would exclude certain items like pepperoni pizza, the fish eating kind and I was even reading a review of a vegetarian cookbook on amazon that includes poultry recipes.

I personally never thought vegetarians eat meat but somehow there seem to be a lot of people that believe that.


But how does that compare to the number of vegetarian cookbooks without meat? I'm not saying those people don't exist, but there are a lot of people who know the real definition. I never called myself a vegetarian before I was.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:19 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
How in the world is it smug to say that vegetarian means not eating animals? Look, you can call yourself anything you like. No one's going to sue you if you say you're vegetarian but eat chickens, fish, cows, or pigs. But if it's reasonable to call yourself a vegetarian when you eat animals, I am going to start calling myself a Martian because I'm from Earth.


i believe that when someone says they are a vegetarian, it means that they are making a conscious effort to change the world for the better starting with their diet, and that they are reaching out for advise or a friend. they should be encouraged to continue and go further, not have eyes rolled at them or looked down upon.

in response to the topic, i am going to advise you to not roll your eyes, don't condescend your FMIL's good intentions and look at this as an opportunity to make a friend. Or on second thought, maybe better advise would be to roll your eyes at her and make her feel bad about what ever progress she has made. Rattle her cage and make sure she is tough enough to handle interactions with other vegans that she will meet in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:50 pm 
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pyroFOODiak wrote:
FootFace wrote:
How in the world is it smug to say that vegetarian means not eating animals? Look, you can call yourself anything you like. No one's going to sue you if you say you're vegetarian but eat chickens, fish, cows, or pigs. But if it's reasonable to call yourself a vegetarian when you eat animals, I am going to start calling myself a Martian because I'm from Earth.


i believe that when someone says they are a vegetarian, it means that they are making a conscious effort to change the world for the better starting with their diet, and that they are reaching out for advise or a friend. they should be encouraged to continue and go further, not have eyes rolled at them or looked down upon.

in response to the topic, i am going to advise you to not roll your eyes, don't condescend your FMIL's good intentions and look at this as an opportunity to make a friend. Or on second thought, maybe better advise would be to roll your eyes at her and make her feel bad about what ever progress she has made. Rattle her cage and make sure she is tough enough to handle interactions with other vegans that she will meet in the future.


I'm with you about not looking down on people who are making an effort, but the term "vegetarian" simply does not mean "someone who is making a conscious effort to change the world for the better starting with their diet." It means "someone who does not eat meat."

Words can't have infinitely flexible meanings. It's not a matter of snobbery; it's just that language doesn't make sense if we don't accept that words have definitions.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:53 pm 
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I used to call my self a vegetarian but I still ate hot dogs. They don't kill pigs for hot dogs was my logic. I was 13. When I started cutting meat out of my diet this time I started with mammals, then all animals with feet, then 'meat'-I am still very liberal with things like stock or gelatin. Eventually I will cut it all out, and I have stopped buying those items. I don't claim to be vegetarian but I get called it and it is just easier to not explain because it will/has become a huge issue.

I just think the best advice is to never critize a MIL-unless it is absolutly necessary!

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:10 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
I'm with you about not looking down on people who are making an effort, but the term "vegetarian" simply does not mean "someone who is making a conscious effort to change the world for the better starting with their diet." It means "someone who does not eat meat."

Words can't have infinitely flexible meanings. It's not a matter of snobbery; it's just that language doesn't make sense if we don't accept that words have definitions.


She could call herself a flexitarian, but I agree that you can't be a chicken-and-fish-eating vegetarian.
http://www.newsweek.com/2008/09/28/part ... ians.html#

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:26 pm 
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I blame all this on Richard Rorty, postmodernism, and the swishifying effect of a post-fact society where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing's the way it seems.


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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:05 pm 
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philadelphegan wrote:
I blame all this on Richard Rorty, postmodernism, and the swishifying effect of a post-fact society where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing's the way it seems.


I was thinking exactly the same thing, only with all the words different.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I tell my FMILU that she's not REALLY vegetarian?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:29 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I wouldn't tell her she is wrong. I would praise her and ask why she decided to cut out pork and red meat. Depending what she tells you (health, AR, environment), you can then start having the conversations to move her away from chicken, fish, dairy etc.

Hurrah for small steps and for an awesome FMILU. At least you know you're guaranteed good food at family dinners not the obligatory throw-away salad.


I think this is definitely more my style... And more like what I'm doing. We are still working on a kit for her with TVP, VWG, Better Than Bouillon, etc. I'm only buying her vegan cookbooks as gifts. And I really do think I'm being very good about not pressuring her into anything (since she wanted to go vegetarian and not vegan I reassured her by saying she can ALWAYS use regular milk/cheese instead of the vegan cheeses). Although I did convince her to try Silk in her morning cereal and she looooves it. It's even helped with some digestive issues. And when we were talking later on we both talked about how gross it feels after you eat meat (after being vegetarian for any length of time or even since she cut SOME of the meat out of her diet). She even agreed that after our Vegan Thanksgiving spread she was full but it was such a "nice" full rather than a bloated, gassy full after a meat & dairy laden meal. Now, I'm not vegan to be straight with you all, but I do primarily cook vegan.

... That was longer that I intended... but I'm leaving it. :)

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