| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:48 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:09 pm 
Offline
Can't Dance, Isn't Part of Revolution

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 146
From The Thinking Vegan http://thethinkingvegan.com/articles/st ... gveganism/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:26 pm 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3887
Location: Smugville, CA
I do agree with a lot of that post but I gotta say, I really don't think it's cool to call out other people on presumed eating disorders on a blog. Veganism is a pretty small community- even though the author didn't name names, I knew immediately who he was talking about, and I really didn't like it. If anything, making those kinds of assumptions about someone and using what I imagine could be a harrowing personal struggle in an argument detracts from an otherwise excellent piece.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:27 pm 
Offline
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 4449
Location: Toronto, ON
Yes, yes, a million times yes.

_________________
I like my bagels like I like my men - big and covered with earth balance & nooch. - Bunniee

http://veganforthewin.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:29 pm 
Offline
Impressive boner
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:57 pm
Posts: 4125
Location: Nottingham.
I'm not sure that it's an excellent commentary. People sometimes need to move away from veganism for all sorts of reasons.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:50 pm 
Offline
Banned from Vegan Freaks.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:44 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Jungles of America
8ball wrote:
I'm not sure that it's an excellent commentary. People sometimes need to move away from veganism for all sorts of reasons.

Like what? Are there actual medical reasons like some people claim? I could imagine places where obtaining vegan food is extremely difficult, but I've always personally defined veganism as the attempt to avoid animal products as much as "possible." With possible not being literal, but really just accounting for all of life's other demands. So if I was in a place where I often couldn't get a vegan meal I'd just do my best.

I'm straying, I was just curious what some legitimate reasons are and I started to expound on the idea in the back of my head about someone not having much access to vegan food (like in the military maybe?).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:53 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 1450
Location: Berlin
I understand people who are recovering from eating disorders to (temporarily?) stop veganism. I never did because veganism never was a restriction to me, but yeah, it can help to get the mindset that some foods are "wrong". At the same time, I don't think animals are food so it's a confusing concept...

I don't think there's non-psychological good reasons to stop being vegan. I can only think of things that make it "difficult" to be vegan but that's a perception thing.

_________________
http://www.veganinberlin.com
"Money ain't got no owners, only spenders." - Omar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:08 pm 
Offline
Asked Santa for a pony
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3136
Location: Portland
I won't fault someone for moving away from veganism if they have an eating disorder. A lot of the posts I've seen lately are from people who used hyper-healthy and restrictive forms of veganism (no sugar, oil, gluten etc.) to mask an ED, so it rarely shocks me when they don't stick around for the long haul. My hope is that they learned a lot about living compassionately and they can come back to veganism when they're in a better place with food and their bodies. That also includes ethical vegans whose recovery might not allow any room for food restriction.

I do hate that a lot of these people throw veganism under the bus when they quit and seem to conflate their issues with food with ethical living ("ohhh, it was just too restrictive! because I made it that way!"); I just try to remember that they're in a seriously difficult place in their lives and they're looking for support in their posts and probably trying to build themselves a new community.

I do roll my eyes when I hear about "medical" reasons people have for quitting veganism, which tend to include conditions and deficiencies diagnosed exclusively by listening to their bodies.

_________________
Instagram @noochynoodle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:15 pm 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3887
Location: Smugville, CA
Nebraskalaska wrote:
I won't fault someone for moving away from veganism if they have an eating disorder. A lot of the posts I've seen lately are from people who used hyper-healthy and restrictive forms of veganism (no sugar, oil, gluten etc.) to mask an ED, so it rarely shocks me when they don't stick around for the long haul. My hope is that they learned a lot about living compassionately and they can come back to veganism when they're in a better place with food and their bodies. That also includes ethical vegans whose recovery might not allow any room for food restriction.


Thank you, that is a fantastic way of putting it. I think what is harmful about the post linked above is that those are the kind of 'Mean Girl' shaming attitudes that would totally put a person off from trying veganism again once they get well if indeed that is their struggle.

I understand that it's disappointing and even hurtful when people you know and respect stop being vegan. But I fail to see how haranguing them and shaming them is helpful to the animals. If someone walks out the door, are you gonna slam the door behind them? Cause if you leave it open, maybe they'll turn around and come back in.

ETA: not 'you' personally, 'you' in the sense that... oh, you get it.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Last edited by Erika Soyf*cker on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:15 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 1450
Location: Berlin
Nebraskalaska wrote:
I won't fault someone for moving away from veganism if they have an eating disorder. A lot of the posts I've seen lately are from people who used hyper-healthy and restrictive forms of veganism (no sugar, oil, gluten etc.) to mask an ED, so it rarely shocks me when they don't stick around for the long haul. My hope is that they learned a lot about living compassionately and they can come back to veganism when they're in a better place with food and their bodies. That also includes ethical vegans whose recovery might not allow any room for food restriction.


In the eating disorder clinic I was, I was allowed to eat vegan food while some others weren't. They basically quizzed you on your reasons for being vegan and when you convincingly could explain your ethical reasons it was ok. I mean, I don't think it was less difficult for me to let go of restrictions just because I wasn't forced to eat dairy (especially since I'm also lactose intolerant...).

I mean, I also know a lot of eating disordered people that were helped my ethical veganism. As in "no food is immoral because of it's calorific content or healthfulness" and having a more logical body-positive framework for "moral" food consumption.

I definitely have compassion for people who say "look, I did this to restrict, now I need to let go of it", but the ex-"animal activists" who suddenly feel some urge to eat steak and then magically feel better the next day? Urgh.

_________________
http://www.veganinberlin.com
"Money ain't got no owners, only spenders." - Omar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:30 pm 
Offline
Flounceiad 2011
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:26 pm
Posts: 5634
Location: A New England
Nebraskalaska wrote:
I do hate that a lot of these people throw veganism under the bus when they quit and seem to conflate their issues with food with ethical living ("ohhh, it was just too restrictive! because I made it that way!"). I just try to remember that they're in a seriously difficult place in their lives and they're looking for support in their posts and probably trying to build themselves a new community.
This. Obviously eating disorders are horrible and do terrible things to our brains and our bodies, but I really hate it when someone blames a way of life that is perfectly healthy when approached with care and education for their abuse of it to create opportunities for more restriction. That's not veganism, that's an eating disorder, and it's not cool to publicly tar an entire movement with such a broad brush because some people actively choose to interpret it in extreme, unhealthy ways.
Nebraskalaska wrote:
I do roll my eyes when I hear about "medical" reasons people have for quitting veganism, which tend to include conditions and deficiencies diagnosed exclusively by listening to their bodies.
Also, the way these raging, life-threatening deficiencies that took months or years to develop are miraculously cured by one piece of fish or a scrambled egg. "Praise the Lard, I'm free (of ethical responsibility) at last!"

_________________
I will read all sorts of tripe and am great at suspension of disbelief,
but when characters start getting the hots for serial killer ghosts, I'm out. ~ lavawitch
"SMLOUNCE!" ~ smurfterrobang?!
http://elizaveganpage.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:05 pm 
Offline
Huffs Nooch
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:40 am
Posts: 133
Location: Seattle, WA
I stopped reading at "obesity epidemic". No time for scientifically baseless fat shaming, thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:00 pm 
Offline
Has it on Blue Vinyl
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:13 pm
Posts: 2156
Location: NYC/Schenectady, NY
veganchubosaurus wrote:
I stopped reading at "obesity epidemic". No time for scientifically baseless fat shaming, thanks.


This was when I stopped too.

_________________
If a milkshake is going to change the world then it should be at least be an Oreo one. - daisychain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:33 pm 
Offline
Banned from Vegan Freaks.

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:48 pm
Posts: 370
I liked the article but I have to agree with other posts about eating disorders. If someone stops eating vegan because of an eating disorder I wouldn't hold it against them. I had symptoms of orthorexia nervousa for nearly a year (This was pre vegan) and even though that is a short time to have an eating disorder, it was debilitating. My entire day was spent being obsessed with food and how clean it was. Also, if someone does end up having a nutritional deficiency and they eat animal products to help fix it, I don't hold it against them. I would encourage them to try veganism again and figure out why the deficiency occurred. (I've run into people who claim that B12 supplements are not necessary and that B12 can be found in plant foods. These people tend to be against all supplements)

What I often don't understand is when people have issues with veganism, why do they go back to full blown omnivore? Why not just try vegetarianism? I know there is still cruelty with eggs and milk but there is still some concern for animals. I have heard that some people may have issues absorbing plant based iron but I'm not sure how true this is or if it is just more anti veganism.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:23 am 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 1399
Here is a similar commentary I wrote a few years ago

Where was *MY* meatgasm?

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:34 am 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19114
Location: Cliffbar NJ
BW, that was funny.

Its interesting to see how the promise of this elusive "meatgasm" does lead some people to think that if they give up on veganism, they'll also have a return to perfect health.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:51 am 
Offline
WRETCHED
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:54 pm
Posts: 8680
Location: Maryland/DC area
Kal wrote:
What I often don't understand is when people have issues with veganism, why do they go back to full blown omnivore? Why not just try vegetarianism? I know there is still cruelty with eggs and milk but there is still some concern for animals. I have heard that some people may have issues absorbing plant based iron but I'm not sure how true this is or if it is just more anti veganism.


Some people do go back to vegetarianism instead of full blown omnivore. I think though that those that go full blown omnivore need to assert themselves more so they are more vocal.

Honestly, if someone goes non-vegan, that is their choice, I just don't think them glorifying it or saying "veganism caused my issues" is a fair assessment.

_________________
You are all a disgrace to vegans. Go f*ck yourselves, especially linanil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:19 am 
Offline
Flat Chesty McNoBoobs
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:41 am
Posts: 7567
Location: Portland
Honestly, I'm just sick of hearing about ex vegans. I totally understand why people with eating disorders (and rare medical conditions) might go back to eating animal products, but I'm just so sick of hearing about it from both sides (the ex vegan side and the vegan rebuttal side). Maybe if there wasn't so much attention given to these "hey I'm not vegan anymore" announcements, they wouldn't be so common.

_________________
If you spit on my food I will blow your forking head off, you filthy shitdog. - Mumbles
Don't you know that vegan meat is the gateway drug to chicken addiction? Because GMO and trans-fats. - kaerlighed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:20 am 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3887
Location: Smugville, CA
jordanpattern wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sick of hearing about ex vegans. I totally understand why people with eating disorders (and rare medical conditions) might go back to eating animal products, but I'm just so sick of hearing about it from both sides (the ex vegan side and the vegan rebuttal side). Maybe if there wasn't so much attention given to these "hey I'm not vegan anymore" announcements, they wouldn't be so common.


::clapping::

Thank you. I think we could all do much more for the animals if we simply kept our gaze forward instead of obsessing over the handful of people who stop being vegan for whatever reason, whether we think it's perfectly valid or not.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:26 am 
Offline
Queen Bitch of Self-Righteous Veganville
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 10701
Location: Illinoize
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I do agree with a lot of that post but I gotta say, I really don't think it's cool to call out other people on presumed eating disorders on a blog. Veganism is a pretty small community- even though the author didn't name names, I knew immediately who he was talking about, and I really didn't like it. If anything, making those kinds of assumptions about someone and using what I imagine could be a harrowing personal struggle in an argument detracts from an otherwise excellent piece.


That Blonde Vegan chick* has been doing a media tour over her quitting veganism and she herself is the one who said she has an eating disorder. Or specifically, that being vegan gave her an eating disorder.

Also about the 'obesity epidemic' comment, he has several articles about fat shaming so I don't think that's where he's going with that.

http://thethinkingvegan.com/tag/fat-shaming/


*am I the only one who had never even heard of her until her dramatic flounce?

_________________
"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:01 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 1399
jordanpattern wrote:
but I'm just so sick of hearing about it from both sides (the ex vegan side and the vegan rebuttal side). Maybe if there wasn't so much attention given to these "hey I'm not vegan anymore" announcements, they wouldn't be so common.


Yep. So many people forget that giving attention to things they don't like helps those things grow: ex-vegans, PITA's latest nasty campaign, etc

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:10 pm 
Offline
Lime and a Coconut
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 3887
Location: Smugville, CA
mrsbadmouth wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I do agree with a lot of that post but I gotta say, I really don't think it's cool to call out other people on presumed eating disorders on a blog. Veganism is a pretty small community- even though the author didn't name names, I knew immediately who he was talking about, and I really didn't like it. If anything, making those kinds of assumptions about someone and using what I imagine could be a harrowing personal struggle in an argument detracts from an otherwise excellent piece.


That Blonde Vegan chick* has been doing a media tour over her quitting veganism and she herself is the one who said she has an eating disorder. Or specifically, that being vegan gave her an eating disorder.

Also about the 'obesity epidemic' comment, he has several articles about fat shaming so I don't think that's where he's going with that.

http://thethinkingvegan.com/tag/fat-shaming/

*am I the only one who had never even heard of her until her dramatic flounce?


Yeah, I didn't realize that when I first read the article. I still don't think it's cool to really discuss someone else's personal struggle with an ED, even if they are doing press junkets about it. I'm with Jordan, I think it's best to just ignore her. What's the point of doing otherwise?

*I had never ever heard of her either. Although sometimes I do live under a bit of a rock, veganically-speaking.

_________________
Crazy rating: Double plus crazytown bananapants ~Jordanpattern
Too much woo, you guys. Too much woo ~Tofulish
Sews Before Bros


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:30 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 1450
Location: Berlin
I think the point is that when it's ok to criticise people who first make a lot of money by promoting "health veganism" and then going around blaming veganism for getting them sick. I'm not sure I agree that it's always best to ignore these things (and I definitely don't think it's right to ignore PETA doing shiitake and not complaining).

_________________
http://www.veganinberlin.com
"Money ain't got no owners, only spenders." - Omar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:41 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 1399
I would agree with you if there is something you can do to get those people to stop doing damage. If you can't, paying attention to them just promotes them. I had no idea who the blondeveganchick was until this thread.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:27 pm 
Offline
<3
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 425
Location: USA
I went vegan for ethical reasons almost 9 years ago, having been vegetarian for a number of years prior and consuming less and less dairy. I went vegan from one day to the next and never looked back. But recently I'm struggling with staying vegan. Because quite literally It's been indicated I'm not welcome at the vegan table. And after attending a vegan event where I understood the speaker (heavily associated with this organization) to state that vegans should be advocates by their appearance as part of an overall speech, I'm told again, I'm not welcome. It's been over 3 years and I've had no hands on vegan support. I'm unable to make myself return to this place. I can't visit the animals I donated to. I thought being vegan was easy. But everyone needs some kind of support and sense of belonging. And It's been stated in the media from that physicians counsel (whatever they call themselves) to PETA. Be vegan for the look, not the compassion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Excellent commentary on ex vegans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:38 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19114
Location: Cliffbar NJ
http://veganfeministagitator.blogspot.c ... as-ex.html

That was interesting as well!

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer