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 Post subject: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:12 am 
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Huffs Nutritional Yeast

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The sweet hereafter soft-opened Tues in the Dixie Mattress space on Belmont. This is a new venture by the "Bye & Bye" crew. The vibe is upscale southern sport bar with fancy lighting and lots of dark paneling. The patio contains a large non-smoking section. (The one thing I really hate about the Bye & Bye is getting smoked out on the patio.) The cocktail menu is very much an ode to the south with modern takes on the julep and sazerac. The beer list is not extensive but I enjoyed an IPA and IRA. My partner had a $5 glass of the house red which was soft and fruit-forward (possible a soft-opening special). The limited food menu has substantial cross-over with the Bye & Bye, including the eastern bowl and georgia bowls. The buffalo chicken sandwich was a sliced toasted baguette piled with seasoned soy curls and lettuce tomato salad dressed in thousand island. It was good messy fun but I wished there was a little more heat a la the weeping tiger. We also ordered the panelle, which contained a decent but somewhat bland chickpea patty and homemade pickles. This could have been improved by more spice in the patty and perhaps a slaw in addition to the pickle. All in all, I am very excited that we now have our own "Bye & Bye" on the inner east side. One less reason to visit gentrifying nopo!

I changed this topic title so that we can have a thread to discuss the Sweet Hereafter. - Isa


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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:55 am 
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Thanks for the info. Enjoyed the review until the last comment.

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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Yeah that was kind of dumb. Ugh. Actually it makes me feel like avoiding SE.

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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:57 pm 
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How is SE not...gentrified...??

Anyhoo, next time I'm down there I'll have to check it out.

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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Huffs Nutritional Yeast

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ethnic cleansing of nopo:

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... hiter.html

(notice how se pdx stays purple the whole time.)

PS: /ducks


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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Santa is a WELFARIST!
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Sorry to derail this thread....but ....

Gentrification does not always have to do with race or ethnicity, it's roughly defined as changes that result when wealthier people ("gentry") acquire property in low income and working class communities.

I do not disagree with the numbers (i.e. yes, I agree some ethnic groups are being pushed out due to wealthier mostly white people) , but this is a pretty general graph that has a couple of issues that make it confusing (not saying it is incorrect, just possibly not the best tool for this discussion):

-According to the numbers given along with the graph, the latino population is rising at a faster rate than the white population in
my neighborhood but the color scheme doesn't really reflect that.
-It only goes to 1990...only 20 years ago which almost not even a generation, who knows what the ethnic diversity of the areas (including SE) was before then.
-Also the first graph has a category for "other" while the latest graph has "other" and "multiracial" (granted those are small percentages, but it's an additional category they should kept the categories the same for the sake of comparison of data).

I guess I am just picky about data since I started taking science courses. ;P

I don't know if any of this makes sense or what point exactly that I'm trying to make but i feel inexplicably resentful at the shot taken at the N area of PDX. Try visiting some businesses in N or NE that have been around longer and support the income of the working class people and families who live and work in the areas. Also, not sure how visiting an "upscale" business in a relatively wealthy (and yes, white) area in SE helps discourage gentrification in N/NE pdx?
I live here in N pdx because it's what I can afford and I'm not sure what I personally should be doing to prevent gentrification...should I not live here because of my ethnicity (white)?
I am working class, I live paycheck to paycheck and I definitely feel the pressure of wealthier people moving here and raising rent prices and I hate to see the local businesses go under when wealthier people demand bigger and more expensive businesses.

So, What I guess I'm trying to say after all that is that gentrification is more about income than ethnicity and I feel ethnic cleansing is a strong term. Plus I love my neighborhood and feel happy and welcome here. I'm sure local business owners (whatever their ethnicity) appreciate me(whatever my ethnicity) spending money in the neighborhood. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

/threadjack

P.S. On a more encouraging note, I definitely recommend joining your neighborhood association if you are interested in issues like this. Mine has it's own newsletter and website and you will know more about the people and businesses you live around. Sometimes they discuss with the association if their business is going under and the support from neighborhood people is amazing. It will change the way you see your neighborhood!

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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:29 pm 
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Right on Muffin, I wholeheartedly agree. I live in NoPo because I can afford it here, and I can't afford living in the inner SE, nor do I want to.


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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:31 am 
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Huffs Nutritional Yeast

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many long-term resident african americans were forced to move because they could not afford property taxes (or were simply bought out). trendy restaurants, coffee bars, yoga shalas, doggy day cares, natural foods stores and even vegan bars raise property prices/taxes. i am conflicted about supporting businesses in nopo and will remain so even if it offends someone who recently moved there. and to be blunt, when someone says they moved to a newly gentrifying area because its quote unquote affordable i gotta smile. rents are dirt cheap in rockwood.

Quote:
The latino population is rising at a faster rate than the white population in my neighborhood but the color scheme doesn't really reflect that

the latino community is growing rapidly overall and increases on the periphery are even larger than those in close in nopo. (viva la reconquista).


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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:39 am 
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Portland is a growing city. Of course it's going to grow in the inner city before it does in Rockwood. I mean if it did start growing fast out to the suburbs that's what we call urban sprawl, which has a huge negative effect on, let's say, the environment for one. Portland is doing good at keeping people living close to where they work. Growing inward and upward, instead of out. Sure, gentrification kind of blows, but 40 years ago there was major gentrification in SE too. Gentrification always happens when cities grow.

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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:44 am 
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what the fork? I thought this thread was about a new bar. Why don't you start a new thread if you want to discuss political issues?


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 Post subject: Re: the sweet hereafter -- new vegan bar
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
what the fork? I thought this thread was about a new bar. Why don't you start a new thread if you want to discuss political issues?

Portland.

But yeah, I'd love if we could have a new thread just about this awesome new spot. The owners put so much work into it and it's such an amazing accomplishment, that it would suck if it got sucked into a vortex of Portlanders outgentrifying each other. I am going to change this topic to be about gentrification and start a new thread to discuss the actual restaurant.

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Because it wouldn't really make sense to start a thread titled: "a response thread to something someone said in another thread, read that one for context". Also, it's too many characters!

Anyhow, I wasn't trying to say that gentrification is good or should not be a concern. I'm just trying to say that avoiding places where it's happening is not helping. Businesses go to where the people already are. Laws are going to be the only way you can help people with their property taxes. And property taxes aren't just being raised in N/NE... I live in a shitty, more east area of SE and it's mostly low-income white people, but our property taxes have all jumped quite a lot the past two years... And it's not like there are any fun businesses around to make sense of it. I really think it's better for Portland the more small businesses that open, no matter what neighborhood.

P.S. I'm excited for The Sweet Hereafter.

And good solution Isa.

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Really sorry for derailing it guys, I was afraid of that....but you just can't tack that kind of topic onto a review of a bar and think nobody is going to want to discuss it.

I'm not trying to one up anybody (or "outgentrify").... I just think supporting family businesses in N portland is big step to keeping families in their homes in the area (homes that might have a fixed rent or property tax).

Of course I agree that frequenting newly added businesses to the area can lead to undesirable things like pushing a lower income group of people out...but we should also consider how to improve the areas. (For instance I'd love to see a grocery store within walking distance of my house so people don't have to get food at convenience stores.)
Maybe microloans for lower income people to start or continue their business? (not sure exactly how those work).

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Muffin-Tuffin wrote:
Really sorry for derailing it guys, I was afraid of that....but you just can't tack that kind of topic onto a review of a bar and think nobody is going to want to discuss it.


Nope, I totally agree with you. I don't think you derailed it, I actually thought it was a rather trollish thing to do, tacking that last sentence on to the review. If you want to discuss it then do so, no need for passive aggressive comments at the end of restaurant reviews.

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:16 pm 
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I think Utilitarian just comes off as passionate about the negative consequences of gentrification. I'm not going to avoid NoPo or any other gentrified area, but here's my weak understanding of the history here, with the African American population being shafted over and over.

There were very few African Americans in Portland before WW II, as historically they could not own property in Oregon. But many moved here during the war to work in the shipyards, to an area called Vanport, along the Columbia River. Right after the war, Vanport was washed away in a devastating flood with a lot of loss of life, after which the focal point of the African American community moved to NoPo. It was a vibrant community which was again devastated when they built I-5 right through the middle of it in the mid 60's.

When MAX was built 45 or so years later, it was looked at as an opportunity to revitalize the area and a lot of urban renewal/other money was put aside and promises to the community were made, including help for local businesses/homeowners and plans for substantial lower income housing. These promises were not kept, which has been a prominent subject recently in local newspapers. Many African Amercians are now ending up in outer SE, the David Douglas area, losing community ties, churches, etc. and with inconvenient public transportation.

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:43 pm 
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There are at least a couple studies that suggest that gentrification doesn't actually force out low-income residents. The demographic shift seems to happen by succession (a change in the rate and demographics of people moving to the neighborhood, along with normal turnover rates) rather than displacement (increased turn over rates with low-income and minority residents being forced out by increased cost of living):

http://www.time.com/time/business/artic ... 55,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... tion_x.htm

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:08 am 
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That's interesting hoveringdog but I experienced it first hand in greenpoint (brooklyn) and it was as much people moving away as not coming in. Much of the Polish community, including my own super, were forced to move away from their longtime hood as prices went up. Of course, it has only been a largely Polish community for maybe 100 years. Before that it was mostly Dutch/other Northern Europeans, and of course before that it had been occupied by Native Americans. Not to say that it isn't depressing to see working class folks get pushed out of their longtime neighborhoods (and homes). It is, but I try to rationalize it by taking note of the impermanence of everything.

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:11 pm 
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I would think there's a lot of overlap between succession and displacement. A better measure might be to look at the number of housing units per income level. Once that trends upward it does either displace or discourage the poor within the community - renters, young people starting out, etc. The driving force for Portland neighborhood gentrification in the last 30 years hasn't been passive, but by city mandate in "urban renewal" districts. In NoPo, as in other areas in Portland, a lot of tax and grant incentives have been utilized in "urban renewal" districts, with the requirement for developers to replace a set number of low income housing - which somehow always gets forgotten or forgiven.

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Saw this thread after juuust signing a lease in NE Portland. Don't know how to feel now.


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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:13 pm 
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k-in-your-book wrote:
Saw this thread after juuust signing a lease in NE Portland. Don't know how to feel now.

don't feel bad.

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:45 pm 
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Nebraskalaska wrote:
k-in-your-book wrote:
Saw this thread after juuust signing a lease in NE Portland. Don't know how to feel now.

don't feel bad.

Yeah, indeed. It's really stuff like what Jill said:
Jill wrote:
...by city mandate in "urban renewal" districts. In NoPo, as in other areas in Portland, a lot of tax and grant incentives have been utilized in "urban renewal" districts, with the requirement for developers to replace a set number of low income housing - which somehow always gets forgotten or forgiven.

Not people like you signing leases. Welcome to the best part of Portland!

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 Post subject: Re: PDX gentrification (was about the sweet hereafter)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:48 pm 
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As Jill said, there's a looooong history of low-income and minority groups being screwed over in North Portland - I would add the construction of Emmanuel Hospital and the Japanese internment camp in Delta Park to the list. Totally forked, and every time new development happens it's like, "well, this bad thing happened last time, but trust us, we've learned from our mistakes!" and then mysteriously the money for low-income housing or whatever isn't there. Whoopsie!

That being said, I grew up in North Portland in the 80s and early 90s, and it is a much better place to live nowadays! I can't count the number of times I had a gun pulled on me as a kid by some gangbanger because my neighbors and I playing basketball didn't get out of the street fast enough when they drove by, in addition to all kinds of other forked up stuff. Nothing compared to the ghettos of other big cities... but a big problem all the same.

And no, we definitely couldn't afford a house over there now and had to pick between St. Johns and outer SE, but I'm happy to ride my bike 8 miles to support the Bye and Bye as often as possible!


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