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 Post subject: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:52 am 
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Tofu Pup Forever

Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:42 am
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Location: Northampton, MA
Just got back from a trip to CA and wanted to say how much we loved Cafe Gratitude and Gracias Madre. we ate at both places twice. We I wish we had them here in Massachusetts.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Chip Strong
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Location: San Francisco
They are indeed awesome ... but mostly I just wanted to say that I used to live in Northampton and now live in SF, how strange! At least you have good food out there too, go eat some muffins at Haymarket for me and suck it down with a Swamp Thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Gracias Madre is sooo tasty. Yet to venture to Cafe Gratitude.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Vegan Since Before There Were Vegetables
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Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:30 pm
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Location: Wolfville, Nova Scotia
God, I think about Gracias Madre at least once a week. So forking good.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:21 am 
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Tofu Pup Forever

Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:42 am
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Location: Northampton, MA
Rubella, would you believe I've never had a juice at the Haymarket. I guess I need to do that! Thanks for the recommendation.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:44 pm 
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Chip Strong
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Location: San Francisco
They are so good! I miss that place like crazy.

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[...]then i pooped pink sparkles out of sheer hatred. -allularpunk


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Not NOT A Furry
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I have had Cafe Gratitude several years ago and did want to try Gracias Madre but since they open I learn of their use of biodynamic agriculture for their veggies and was majorly turned off. I don't see how a "vegan" place could support animal slaughter for essentially magic rituals...that plus their pushy, perhaps cultist attitudes with their Landmark Forum connection makes me want to boycott them.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/i-am- ... id=1370662
http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com/201 ... c-farming/

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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:22 am 
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Saggy Butt
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SkepticalVegan wrote:
I have had Cafe Gratitude several years ago and did want to try Gracias Madre but since they open I learn of their use of biodynamic agriculture for their veggies and was majorly turned off. I don't see how a "vegan" place could support animal slaughter for essentially magic rituals...that plus their pushy, perhaps cultist attitudes with their Landmark Forum connection makes me want to boycott them.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/i-am- ... id=1370662
http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com/201 ... c-farming/


How do you know they use biodynamic agriculture?


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:26 am 
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Not NOT A Furry
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Gunnar Handsome wrote:
SkepticalVegan wrote:
I have had Cafe Gratitude several years ago and did want to try Gracias Madre but since they open I learn of their use of biodynamic agriculture for their veggies and was majorly turned off. I don't see how a "vegan" place could support animal slaughter for essentially magic rituals...that plus their pushy, perhaps cultist attitudes with their Landmark Forum connection makes me want to boycott them.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/i-am- ... id=1370662
http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com/201 ... c-farming/


How do you know they use biodynamic agriculture?


They openly say that they do...
http://sfist.com/2009/12/29/cafe_gratit ... _madre.php

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No gods, no masters, no woo, no whey!
Be skeptical not susceptible!
http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:06 am 
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Saggy Butt
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Location: San Francisco
I can think of better things to boycott than a vegan restaurant that sources all their vegetables from a local organic farm.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:27 am 
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Not NOT A Furry
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Gunnar Handsome wrote:
I can think of better things to boycott than a vegan restaurant that sources all their vegetables from a local organic farm.


So? I avoid many other products and businesses for other reasons too. It no big deal for me to not eat at a particular relatively expensive restaurant as well. Also biodynamic is a step beyond organic...in the wrong direction. And the issue also includes management pressuring some employees to attend expensive Landmark Educations Forums which themselves have been under scrutiny for using high pressure tactics.
I've also got other issues with whole localvore thing but that's another thread

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http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:34 am 
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Vegan Since Before There Were Vegetables
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Location: Wolfville, Nova Scotia
SkepticalVegan wrote:
And the issue also includes management pressuring some employees to attend expensive Landmark Educations Forums which themselves have been under scrutiny for using high pressure tactics.
I've also got other issues with whole localvore thing but that's another thread


Wasn't the Landmark thing just for Cafe Gratitude workers?

I agree that that thing was super weird, but despite having close ties to Cafe Gratitude, Gracias Madre seems far less cultish.

I'm no expert on biodynamics but I really think there is a good chance that biodynamic farming has evolved far beyond what Steiner covers in your quotes from the 1924 lectures. I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's worth looking into further.

I worked as an organic produce manager and the biodynamic farms I ordered from certainly didn't bury a cow horn full of quartz into the ground. I know this for a fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:04 am 
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Saggy Butt
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I'm also not the biggest fan of Landmark, but I can't help notice how happy (blissful?) everyone working there seems.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:36 am 
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Vegan Since Before There Were Vegetables
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Location: Wolfville, Nova Scotia
And that tall waiter with the longish hair at Gracias Madre is forking hot.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:50 am 
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Not NOT A Furry
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Quote:
Wasn't the Landmark thing just for Cafe Gratitude workers?

I agree that that thing was super weird, but despite having close ties to Cafe Gratitude, Gracias Madre seems far less cultish.


I have found references in new reports and blogs that "managers are encouraged to attend Landmark Forum programs...those who don’t find themselves unemployed." and that this is practice for both Cafe Gratitude(CG) and Gracias Madre(GM). Over-all I currently only have personal reports to go on that GM participates in landmark forum but considering that GM is owned by CG or rather both are owned by a certain couple who are into Landmark themselves, which is the source of the connect, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was going on at both restaurants.
I know it seems silly to be worried about it but there have been some seriously disturbing stories coming from ex-landmark participants of emotional abuse and possibly unjust imprisonment. One story I recall was forcing a woman to call up here rapist to "forgive" him. Basically creepy and highly confrontational. Thats setting aside this high monetary price of participation (which I heard CG offers to only partially offset), heck Landmark as a for-profit entiity made $89 million in one year along. It really does look like a predatory "self-help" seminar looking to sweet talk, pressure, abuse, or anything they can do to get as much money out of you as they can



Quote:
I'm no expert on biodynamics but I really think there is a good chance that biodynamic farming has evolved far beyond what Steiner covers in your quotes from the 1924 lectures. I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's worth looking into further.


In my research I found many biodynamic farms using the biodynamic preparations (quartz in cow horn, chamomile in cow intestine, ect). Just search around the net a bit, you will find many many pages with modern pictures of biodynamic preparations in various stages, descriptions of how to makes them or where to buy them, and praises of the wonders of the potions. You can even go to you gardening or healthfood store and buy pre-mixed biodynamic compost and biodynamic "tea-bags", because the magic potion only need to be in small amounts because its not using any active ingredient in the potion rather its about essences and spiritual lifeforces they can use a tea made from the preparation.
here is an example of tea-bags http://www.amazon.com/Bus-Brew-Biodynam ... B003WIL2OK
it clearly states "Contains all the preparations, plus some extra love!" I find products like this to be a waste, whatever good there is in those tea bags its certainly not the preparations, anything good in those bags (if they are any benefit at all) could have been gotten from another source, possibly cheaper since its dosen't have a trendy buzz word attached

also here is a a quote from Be Love Farm's (the farm for CG & GM) website
Quote:
...we incorporate many Bio-dynamic practices but we do not meet Demeter standards for Biodynamic certification....Homeopathic “like” remedies are applied to the soil and compost to strengthen the overall life force of the farm entity.

The "homeopathic" part should be a big tip off

Gunnar Handsome wrote:
I'm also not the biggest fan of Landmark, but I can't help notice how happy (blissful?) everyone working there seems.

Possibly because its is a group self-selected under high pressure
I suggest reading more about them...
not the most damnign article but pretty good I thought http://motherjones.com/media/2009/07/la ... wns?page=1

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No gods, no masters, no woo, no whey!
Be skeptical not susceptible!
http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:00 am 
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Saggy Butt
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Location: San Francisco
Yeah, I've read that mojo article before and I've actually had a pretty negative experience with landmark and a family member but I also know people that seemingly benefited from it and I've never done it so i don't completely slam it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cafe Gratitude
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:41 am 
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I wasn't that impressed by cafe gratitude when I went the other night - the tacos I had tasted a bit weird and the raw tiramisu was overpriced / not that good.

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