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 Post subject: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shootings?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:39 am 
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Flat Chesty McNoBoobs
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First Oscar Grant, then the shooting of the drunk gay at Civic Center station, and now another man, shot by SFPD for fare evasion?

http://sfappeal.com/news/2011/07/sfpd-s ... ection.php

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/0 ... -shooting/

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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:05 pm 
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so sad. I just read that they guy evading muni fares was only 19


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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:55 pm 
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

apparently he shot himself?


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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:37 pm 
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I can't even keep track of what's happening with the shooting in Bayview. The details seem to change by the hour.

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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:00 pm 
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I was away for 5 days and came back last night to hear about the drastic story change. That seems MAJORLY sketchy to me. I also read that this "hardened criminal" actually had some juvenile offenses on his record only, nothing adult.

If it were anyone other than the police that were trying to defend their actions, the investigators would be using the rapidly changing story as evidence that they're obviously hiding something. I hope there's a major investigation, because even if the cops were totally in the right in their actions, the way this incident has been handled is appalling.

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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:02 am 
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Not NOT A Furry
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jordanpattern wrote:
I was away for 5 days and came back last night to hear about the drastic story change. That seems MAJORLY sketchy to me. I also read that this "hardened criminal" actually had some juvenile offenses on his record only, nothing adult


Quote:
Harding, who served 22 months in prison for attempting to force a 14-year-old girl into prostitution

doesn't sound to minor to me...not that it justifies what happened

don't get me wrong I dislike and distrust the police as much as anyone but that dosent mean they are always lying. Whether the guy accidentally shot himself because he was being shot at or whether the cops shot him, it was not justified in my mind...fare evasion isnt worth it, let him run

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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:17 am 
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SkepticalVegan wrote:
jordanpattern wrote:
I was away for 5 days and came back last night to hear about the drastic story change. That seems MAJORLY sketchy to me. I also read that this "hardened criminal" actually had some juvenile offenses on his record only, nothing adult


Quote:
Harding, who served 22 months in prison for attempting to force a 14-year-old girl into prostitution

doesn't sound to minor to me...not that it justifies what happened

don't get me wrong I dislike and distrust the police as much as anyone but that dosent mean they are always lying. Whether the guy accidentally shot himself because he was being shot at or whether the cops shot him, it was not justified in my mind...fare evasion isnt worth it, let him run


Oops! The articles I read didn't mention that offense, so apologies for my mis-statement.

I agree that the cops aren't always lying, but I do work in a field where I read their reports (including a lot of SFPD reports) several hours each day. It's been really, really shocking how many falsifications and material omissions I catch. That has definitely coloured the way I see stories like this.

The thing that bothers me about this case is that though there were many witnesses, it took, what, a week for the police to solidify their story. I think that makes the story a lot less credible. I'm concerned with the way this was reported on as well, with many media outlets taking the police statements as truth, when there appeared to be a lot of different versions of what actually happened.

Maybe Harding was the worst person on earth, but I don't think that justifies the way this was handled or the police actions at the time of his killing.

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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:54 am 
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jordanpattern wrote:

Maybe Harding was the worst person on earth, but I don't think that justifies the way this was handled or the police actions at the time of his killing.


I agree, especially since there was no way the cops could even know if he had a shitty history or not at the time of the shooting.


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 Post subject: Re: What the fork is up with public-transport-related shooti
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:18 am 
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Ok after further reviewing the evidence I feel that the cops MAY have been justified in firing
the Shoot Spotter data (a series of microphones designed to pinpoint gunshots) seems to indicated that the suspect fired first. Here is the map that was generated showing the locations of the shots.
Image

The ballistic evidence also seems to point to the suspect firing at the officers
"Kenneth Harding Had Gunshot Residue on His Hand, Police Say" - http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/201 ... hot_re.php
The caliber of the bullet in Hardings lung and head matched his own gun rather than the officers gun
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/201 ... g_shot.php
I find it hard to believe that he was able to intentional or accidentally self-inflict both those shots but I find it about as equally hard to believe that the ballistics evidence is falsified or that if it is that will be kept under wraps for very long

Also in addition to the prostitution charge I mentioned earlier, it appears Harding may have been pursued with such vigor because he was A. a parolee and B. a person of interest in the shooting death of 19 year old Tanaya Gilbert

While I strongly support a citizens rights to defend themselves in any manner from unjust assault by the police, I am also willing concede that at least as human beings that cops have a right to defend themselves if fired upon.

Im not sure where I stand on this case at the moment but Im feeling less and less like this was the out right murder that it was reported to be on facebook an such

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