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 Post subject: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:39 pm 
Mediocre Tart
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I am assuming you dudes here are far more rational than the [don't read the] comments on the Guardian (I daren't read the Telegraph or such just now for fear of exploding with rage) articles and the arguments that are happening right now on a teevee debate I am watching at the moment. What do you think? And what do you think about people aged 16 being given a vote, as is being proposed just now?

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:01 am 
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For as long as I can remember fear has been threaded into the 'anti' debate and this has been behind many comments and opinions. I don't have a TV so avoid all the crepe from that source, and tend to read any mainstream media with more than a hint of suspicion

16? yes why not

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:31 am 
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I think they're proposing to give 16 and 17 year olds the vote for entirely the wrong reason; they just want to get more voters on their side.

I wasn't politically aware at 17, or even 18 or 19. It wasn't until my twenties that I started really paying attention to the world around me.

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:36 am 
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If young voters are politically unaware, why should we assume that they would vote in any particular fashion?

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:49 am 
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Gulliver wrote:
I think they're proposing to give 16 and 17 year olds the vote for entirely the wrong reason; they just want to get more voters on their side.

I wasn't politically aware at 17, or even 18 or 19. It wasn't until my twenties that I started really paying attention to the world around me.


On the other hand, I was extremely politically aware, far more so than now, in fact. I remember during the general election of 1987 being so angry that some people at school could vote who had no idea what was going on around them, and I wanted to be able to vote so desperately.

Lots of people aren't ready to have babies at 16, or at 20, or at 30.

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:45 pm 
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I think that if, at 16, you're deemed old enough to consent to a sexual relationship, marry, raise a family, join the armed forces, work full time in a factory and pay tax on your earnings, you're old enough to have a say in how your money is spent, and how your community is organised and defended. Clearly not old enough to be allowed to buy a pint or drive a bloody car though...

I'm broadly in favour of full independence for all the devolved nations, but I'm interested to hear how the Devo Max option evolves.

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Yes, we don't really know as to what 'Devo Max' will be until someone decides to unfurl it. For sure it is a middle option, in-between a 'no' and a 'yes', but then a majority of Scots in effect said yes at the last election, so do we really need a third option?

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:59 am 
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Many 16/17 year olds are very interested in politics and should be allowed to vote. The apathetic ones won't make the effort, so they don't really matter. Also, the radicalism of youth is an important counterbalance to the conservative complacency that proliferates amongst older voters. Younger voters should also have a say because so many political decisions affect them more than they affect older voters: anything to do with education, for instance, is very relevant to them.

Scottish independence is, of course, a matter for the Scots to decide, and I'm English, but I think the most important thing to do now is to establish exactly what independence or devolution would mean. There needs to be serious negotiation about things like monetary/fiscal arrangements, North Sea oil, public sector debt partition, etc, before people are asked to vote, so they understand exactly what they are voting for.


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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:35 am 
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I think since you can leave school for University, get married, pay tax etc from 16 in Scotland, having the vote is absolutely a good idea.

Personally, I am pro-independence and I have a feeling that we will get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:49 am 
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A yes to independence from me with mutterings from some over the border that they would like to join us

Comforting to know that Scotland has more pandas than Tory ministers :)

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Huh. If Scotland stops sending MPs to Westminster, the rest of us will probably be stuck with a Tory government for ever.

Don't leave us, Scotland. xxx


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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:51 pm 
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I'm sure like minded people will be welcome to join us here Sluggie!

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:45 pm 
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I might just have to do that. Thanks for the welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:36 pm 
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i'm a foreigner with only a rudimentary knowledge of Scotland who's never been north of Birmingham, so i can't say one way or another. but it feels like finding out the old couple next door who've been together for ages are getting a divorce :/

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 Post subject: Re: Independence and all that
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:47 am 
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I'm afraid that it it is a divorce then one partner doesn't want to let go, but wants to continue to try and be dominant and has started making all sorts of threats and accusations backed up by some of his pals :(

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