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 Post subject: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:46 pm 
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Anyone out there seen this movie?

I thought it was really good. Very well done. Before, I heard all the Courtney-had-Kurt-murdered business and said, "Yeah, right. Sure she did." I mean, I thought she was an awful person, but I don't think I actually believed she had anything to do with his death, apart from being a bad influence on him. Now I'm not so sure. This movie makes use of extensive documentation (conversations recorded by the investigator Courtney hired to find Kurt—conversations with Courtney, with Dylan Carlson) and interviews with all kinds of credible experts (a homicide detective, a seasoned forensic pathologist, the paramedic who was the first to inspect the scene, Seattle's chief of police from that time) to paint a pretty sinister picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:19 pm 
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Ooh, I need to watch that.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:11 pm 
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I never heard of it but I really want to watch it too. Courtney is pretty sinister--you know how some people just don't seem emotionally designed for fame (i.e., Kurt and many others) and others just lap it up? I always thought Courtney was in the latter category.

I do wonder what they make of Kurt's suicide note because it was handwritten and pretty damning evidence just based on what I know about the suicide scene that Kurt himself likely did the deed. Footie, do they explore the suicide note in the movie? I figure they would...

I'd love to see it though. I'm a frustrated forensic detective at heart, I tell you...

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:23 pm 
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They do indeed go into it. The consensus seems to be it wasn't a suicide note at all, *and* they present evidence that the part that does resemble a conventional suicide note was forged. (They found what appears to be evidence of someone practicing handwriting and the note displays two different styles.)

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:24 pm 
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Oh, did I forget to say it's on Netflix?

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Thanks, Footie!

Well, I know Frances Bean emancipated herself from Courtney and wound up being raised by Kurt's mother. I read somewhere (think it was a 2011 Vanity Fair article on Courtney) that Frances had testified about Courtney that she was horribly neglectful, some of their household pets died (of neglect, which doesn't make that fact any better, but maybe C's drug abuse explains that) and what I remember was when Montage of Heck came out last year, there was a picture of Frances and Courtney at the premiere and there was just this sense from Frances' body language that she could hardly stand next to her. Know what I mean? Courtney's arms were thrown around Frances short of squeezing her and her body language screamed "I'm so happy to see her!" and Frances' body language looked like she was trying to lean away from her, as in "take your picture so I don't have to stand next to her anymore." Okay, maybe that's reading too much into things I know not of but I remember being struck by Frances' body language in that picture vs. Courtney's.

I don't think that has anything to do with Kurt's suicide/homicide, at any rate,I just think that FB is SO angry at Courtney for her motherin' or lack thereof or whatever she put her through in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:28 pm 
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I think you'll like this movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:19 pm 
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I watched this upon your recommendation. I never really paid much attention to Courtney (at least, not enough to have an opinion of her), and skimmed by the murder theories as I do with anything else like that. But this was definitely interesting, and looked solid enough to be worth further investigation. Whether that will ever actually happen? Who knows. But there's certainly a question mark in my mind that wasn't there before.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:19 am 
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ive never watched any of the movies or read any of the books on this theory (though it wouldnt surprise me in the least CL seems like a gross human being) but what do they say her motive is? money?

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:13 am 
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Trevor watched it and loved it. I'm going to watch it this weekend. When I was a youngun in the 90s I thought Courtney did it. I came around to the idea that he killed himself as I grew older and learned more about mental illness. I think this will put me back where I started in the "Courtney Did It" camp. I have always hated her.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:41 am 
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I've always been in two minds about this theory. I love Hole, especially Pretty on the Inside era stuff, but Courtney Love is clearly not a great person. She is an addict, though, which explains (but doesn't excuse) some of her behaviour.

I was completely obsessed with Nirvana in my early teens, and I've read a lot of theories, some of which do sound a bit suspect.

On the other hand, imagine how absolutely horrible it must be if your husband died, and everyone's saying that you murdered him, and you didn't.

So, basically, I kind of feel bad about wanting to watch this, but I am intrigued, so I'll probably give in at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:00 am 
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I had watched this a while back. I really liked it a lot. I didn't know a lot of the details that lead people to think Courtney was involved but if this stuff is accurate, she def was.


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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:26 pm 
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I finally watched it. Now I need to get my sister to watch it so we can dissect it. I am not convinced but it definitely deserves a closer investigative look. The idea that the shotgun would flip over in Kurt's hand is pretty far fetched.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:38 pm 
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I found it very interesting! I was 14 when Cobain died, and squarely in his fan demographic. I was upset by his death, but nowhere near suicidal about it (plenty of other things, sure, but not that), but I can totally understand how important he was to those kids who did take their own lives after his death. It's all very sad.

LisaPunk wrote:
ive never watched any of the movies or read any of the books on this theory (though it wouldnt surprise me in the least CL seems like a gross human being) but what do they say her motive is? money?


In a word, yes. The documentary lays out through numerous sources that they were likely headed towards divorce. Although Hole was successful, there's no way they approached the height of fame that Nirvana had when Cobain died. They had a prenup, so by being his widow rather than his ex-wife, she stood to inherit around a billion dollars- billion, with a B. Which seems like no biggie now, but in 1994, those are interstellar levels of rock stardom.

The PI whose film it is recorded all his telephone conversations, and at one point when KC is still missing and CL has hired the PI to 'find' him, she is on tape talking to him over the phone about how his disappearance/potential death could be a boon to her upcoming record release. It's pretty gross.

I found the evidence and the investigation (or rather, lack thereof) to be highly suspect and warrants a second look if nothing else. The fact that he had enough heroin in his system to fatally overdose a regular user three times over; the fact that the rifle shell was located on the opposite side of the body from the discharge chamber; the 'death grip' on the rifle muzzle that would have made suicide physically/anatomically impossible; the 'suicide note' that had a hasty and forged appendix added to it... individually none of these things are that alarming, but added up altogether, holy shiitake. Someone literally got away with murdering the world's biggest rock star.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:59 pm 
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When Kurt died, Courtney Love was still basically a nobody. I mean, I don't think the average person (or even the average music fan) knew who she was. All the articles about his death had to explicitly tell readers who she was.

(I still have all the Seattle newspapers from then. I started putting things together in a scrapbook. It's just six feet away from me as I type this!)

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:11 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
When Kurt died, Courtney Love was still basically a nobody. I mean, I don't think the average person (or even the average music fan) knew who she was. All the articles about his death had to explicitly tell readers who she was.

(I still have all the Seattle newspapers from then. I started putting things together in a scrapbook. It's just six feet away from me as I type this!)


I definitely knew who Courtney Love was (and even joked with my friends at the time that She Did It! or one of her famous exes, like Billy Corgan, Did It!), but I can see how if you're not a 14 year-old pissed off at the world and buying slips to wear as dresses from Goodwill, you may not know her!

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:34 pm 
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i do remember that Live Through This came out right after (?) his death and thinking what crazy timing it was.
hmmmmm

i told my husband he should watch this movie (i spend my days around a 2 year old so i probably wont have a chance to any time soon but he sometimes travels for work). he watched Montage of Heck on a plane and he said in that one they have some home video recordings of them and they just looked like junkies to him so he thought the conspiracy theory was a bit far fetched so i told him to check this one out.

the 90s were apparently a crazy time when people could murder giant stars and get away with it. there is basically the same exact thing with (i think) Tupac where a former LAPD officer i think made a documentary about who he thinks the killer is and how the case was just swept under the rug.

i mean damn at least John Lennon's killer went to jail!

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:42 pm 
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I watched this over the weekend and I think the story and evidence they present seem quite believable. It's surprising that the police didn't look into things in greater depth, but it seems like a lot of people just wrote it off because Kurt was an addict.

If Courtney (or someone) did organize this, how is it that nobody has come forward with it in so long? I could imagine one person staying silent about something they did - but it seemed like there were other people around them that knew what had happened that Courtney was keeping away from the police and PI. I know that at the time they were dependent on her/Kurt for drugs and money - has it been that way since?

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:14 pm 
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Nicole wrote:
I watched this over the weekend and I think the story and evidence they present seem quite believable. It's surprising that the police didn't look into things in greater depth, but it seems like a lot of people just wrote it off because Kurt was an addict.

If Courtney (or someone) did organize this, how is it that nobody has come forward with it in so long? I could imagine one person staying silent about something they did - but it seemed like there were other people around them that knew what had happened that Courtney was keeping away from the police and PI. I know that at the time they were dependent on her/Kurt for drugs and money - has it been that way since?


I dunno, it seems to me like it was just her and that one dude Cali. I can imagine a rich rockstar (or a not-so-rich rockstar who is married to a rich rockstar) having tons of influence and sway over their friends; that becomes infinitely more likely when the one with deep pockets is also doing the buying for friends with addictions.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:31 am 
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I agree. I wonder where Cali is now and if he's still under Courtney's thumb. I just find it improbable that he would've never told anyone or made any other comments.

OTOH, I can see how Courtney being fame obsessed/narcissistic/insecure etc on top of her drug use would have made the leap that this is something that she needed to do. *shiver*

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Nicole wrote:
I agree. I wonder where Cali is now and if he's still under Courtney's thumb.


That's what I was wondering, too. I wonder if they reached out to him at all for this documentary, because they sure didn't mention any efforts to get his side of the story.

Looks like he's sober and in LA now, still in the music scene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cali_Thornhill_DeWitt

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:07 pm 
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I keep meaning to watch this. I've seen just about every other documentary about Kurt Cobain.

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Well, this is about to get interesting: http://www.rockfeed.net/2016/03/17/seattle-police-just-shared-interesting-news-kurt-cobains-suicide/

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 Post subject: Re: Soaked in Bleach
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:29 am 
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Whoa.

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