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 Post subject: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:06 pm 
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I didn't expect anything huge out of this, but watched the first episode because I will give any true crime show a chance. Holy moley. This is as intoxicating and infuriating and mysterious as Season 1 of Serial!

If you've heard about it but are on the fence, give it a shot. The first episode will hook you, I guarantee! If you haven't heard about it, it's a documentary series about a man who was exonerated after 18 years in jail for rape when DNA proved his innocence. Two years later, he was arrested for murder. Most of the people who prosecuted him for the latter crime were also involved heavily in prosecuting him for the first. It's compelling, to say the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:55 am 
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I actually am on the fence about this, it keeps coming up on my Netflix recommended list. I'll give it a whirl, since I'm up to date on pretty much everything else I've been watching.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:08 am 
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I just saw that on the list yesterday! Guess I'm gonna have to pause my X-Files binge and watch it.


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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:13 am 
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Okay, officially despondent over the United States justice system. I just finished this. I don't really know what to think. I'm so stunned that all I can hope is that some day when I'm very old this sort of injustice will be looked upon as a regrettable remembrance of less enlightened days.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:04 am 
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My BFF and I binged this show yesterday (seriously, we started around 5pm and stayed up until 4am to finish it). It was so compelling and heartbreaking. We were both raging throughout. I don't think anyone who isn't a rich white man can ever have anything like a fair trial in the US (and even then, that isn't fair when they get away with everything because of their wealth and status).

I'm really starting to dislike the idea of a jury trial. Or at the very least, a jury trial made up of randoms from the community in which the crime took place. More and more that just seems like a terrible idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:55 am 
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I was *seething* after watching it.

I also just read that a member of the jury was the father of a Manitowoc Deputy Sheriff (but it's not addressed in the doc so it's not really a spoiler)

Adding this in spoilers though:
Spoiler: show
Kratz is a slimy toad of a man (but remember he is "the prize") :-)
Brendan's first lawyer should be dis-barred. If not for his horrifically disgraceful defence of a 16 year old then for wearing trousers at least 6" too short.
They practically admit the key was planted and it's no big deal
The judge seemed very biased against the defence
The ex-boyfriend was extremely shifty giving evidence and was indirectly involved in the 'finding' of the car

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:46 am 
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It caught my attention, but I haven't had a chance to watch it. Reading the reviews from you guys has convinced me that this is what Mr Moon and I will be doing tomorrow! Just up our alley.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:46 pm 
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rachell37 wrote:
My BFF and I binged this show yesterday (seriously, we started around 5pm and stayed up until 4am to finish it)


Yep, that's how it happens! I started with episode one and before I knew it was pressing play on number 7. O__O

oliver wrote:
Kratz is a slimy toad of a man

The ex-boyfriend was extremely shifty


YES and YES.

Kratz filled me with unending rage. For some reason his gentle, soft, meek little voice makes me hate him even more! He is such an absolute piece of shiitake human being. Of course, his sexting scandal only confirmed this.

I was also concerned by the apparent lack of investigation into the ex-boyfriend. For the basic reason that you always want to rule out immediate family and partners/ex-partners as suspects first; but also because that guy seemed SHADY AS EFF.

(I unspoilered it since it's all on Netflix, so doesn't meet the PPK's spoiler guidelines)

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I was also concerned by the apparent lack of investigation into the ex-boyfriend. For the basic reason that you always want to rule out immediate family and partners/ex-partners as suspects first; but also because that guy seemed SHADY AS EFF.


There was something off about the brother too... he knew she was dead before the body was found (something about how long it will take to grieve)

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:55 pm 
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oliver wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I was also concerned by the apparent lack of investigation into the ex-boyfriend. For the basic reason that you always want to rule out immediate family and partners/ex-partners as suspects first; but also because that guy seemed SHADY AS EFF.


There was something off about the brother too... he knew she was dead before the body was found (something about how long it will take to grieve)


YESSS totally that was one of the things that set alarm bells ringing like crazy in my head. Before she was even found he was saying something at a press conference about grieving and moving on and I was like 'this creep knows something.' Obviously, the realistic perspective and the statistics would point to her being dead- but as her brother, you'd think he would be holding out hope for her safe return or at the very least be projecting the image of holding out that hope to the public.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:46 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Kratz filled me with unending rage. For some reason his gentle, soft, meek little voice makes me hate him even more! He is such an absolute piece of shiitake human being. Of course, his sexting scandal only confirmed this.

He's such a forking creep.

We're only halfway through, so I don't know if the ex-boyfriend comes back in, but her brother definitely knows something. He's all smirky when he's talking to the press. It's too weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:50 pm 
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Yah the lack of investigation into both the brother and ex boyfriend seems super weird. they were pretty happy during the whole search party and the brother was too excited about the trials.
Talking about her in past tense, offering the camera to the folks going to Avery's scrapyard (and only them), general shiftiness, deleting her phone messages.

So creepy and Kratz was horribly unprofessional and sleazy. Brandon's first lawyer and the whole situation with how he was question was just appalling. I lost it when the judge denied his request to change counsel.
Plus how they harassed steve's gf into leaving and forked with her parole. I am not sure if steve is innocent or not, but any chance of a fair trial and a legit conviction was out the door the moment that county was on the scene.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:46 pm 
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On the last episode now. I'm just horrified. It plain doesn't add up that Steven is guilty.

Whatever about the ex boyfriend I'm really suspicious of the brother the most. He is just as cocky as the police. Now it could be that they done a right number on him but still.... If it was my sister and the evidence was so poor I would be very angry thinking that it is highly possible the wrong person went to jail and the real murderer is still free to keep going.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:11 pm 
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Well, the documentary is exceptionally biased. He didn't get a fair trial for sure. I can't say that he did it or he didn't. When you look at evidence that was left out of the documentary it makes me say that I cannot be so sure he didn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:28 pm 
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I'm going to go on google in a little while to have a good look at what was left out. I keep starting to look and I keep getting distracted.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:53 pm 
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Does the shaky video go on for long? I'm sick and it just made me even queasier. If it is only in the intro, I might have to push on.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:58 pm 
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No, only about a minute so close your eyes and it will pass!

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:07 pm 
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daisychain wrote:
I'm going to go on google in a little while to have a good look at what was left out. I keep starting to look and I keep getting distracted.

I wouldn't let myself google until I finished the series!


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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:33 pm 
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Just finished ep2 and I just don't even know. Right now I feel like he's being set up for sure. And EVERYONE who is law enforcement seems to be hiding something?

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:07 pm 
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I got through episode 4, and I'm already so frustrated I don't know if I can finish watching. I mean, I know the general gist of how it ends - the only suspense left for me is just how thoroughly these guys are going to get forked by the legal system. But I'm definitely curious about what wasn't in the documentary.

From what I have watched, though, I'm disgusted by the way everyone used the nephew. That kid needed an advocate, and it looked like all he had were lowlife scumbags pushing all the right buttons to get him to say exactly what they needed - and he didn't even seem to fully realize that's what was happening. So sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:05 am 
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fupapack wrote:
daisychain wrote:
I'm going to go on google in a little while to have a good look at what was left out. I keep starting to look and I keep getting distracted.

I wouldn't let myself google until I finished the series!


I started to google then the first article that popped up said don't google so I resisted until I finished.

The stand out flaw for me is the IQ levels of Steven and Brendan. I really don't think they would be able to do the cover ups that were done. It was just too organised and clean when it came to the cleanup of DNA and blood.

Getting to read bits and pieces of the stuff that wasn't in the documentary it does seem like yes, he does have a tendency towards deviant behaviour however the attempted coverup of this just doesn't fit with his history. I have a feeling I'm totally going to get sucked in to reading everything possible on this one!

Just read a statement from his attorneys about other possible suspects and was shocked at how other people seem like more reasonable suspects.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:26 am 
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daisychain wrote:
Just read a statement from his attorneys about other possible suspects and was shocked at how other people seem like more reasonable suspects.


It amazed me that the judge wouldn't allow alternative suspects to be named. Is that usual? Also that whole exchange about the VM messages being deleted was unbelievable

(paraphrasing)
Attorney: This means someone was accessing the victims VM and deleting messages after she died
Judge: I'm failing to see the relevance

One more thing on Brendan's IQ... there was a conversation with his mum where neither of them knew what 'inconsistent' meant.... and he's allowed to be interviewed with no representation!

Something I've learned from this. If I'm ever arrested, I'm saying *nothing* and getting the best attorney I can afford.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:25 am 
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Whatever about avery, I think the circumstances around Brendan's interrogation are just horrific. After dealing with so many people with that level cognitive ability coupled with the type of upbringing I know how suggestive they can be.

Something that isn't in the documentary...
Spoiler: show
Holy crepe..... Stevens wife is now married to Brendan's dad!

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:35 am 
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That judge was so biased! How could he just have let the phone messages thing slide? That was so dodgy! And the key being planted was pretty much owned up to by Kratz in his closing statement. Surely that, the defendant's blood being tampered with, a minor being co-erced to giving a statement with no appropriate adult (or whatever the US equivalent is) or attorney present plus the immediate family not being investigated......should have warranted a mistrial?

I don't know, there just seemed to be so many things wrong with the way things were handled. That said i haven't read anything about the evidence that was missed out of the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Making a Murderer (Netflix)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:17 am 
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The judge made a lot of really questionable calls and statements. Like denying appeals, his wording when steve applied for appeal was crazy unprofessional and based on what we've seen a bit unfounded. Your crimes have escalated in severity and violence? THE FIRST ASSAULT WASN'T HIM.. his other crimes from what I've read were stealing beer from a shop (so B/E and robbery) and then the stuff with his cousin saying he was stroganoff on the lawn (which seems like it was a rumor, but even if it wasn't exposure isn't a violent crime) and then threatening her with a gun (which is serious, but also isolated).

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