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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Nooch of Earl
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I kind of like it when writers and directors play around with the audience's sympathies.

Granted, Todd Solondz is one of my favorite favorite directors for exactly that reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Hardcastle McCormick wrote:
elouise wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
I was bent out of shape at so many people hating on Betty when it was Don who was behaving like a crasshole for the entirety of their marriage.

Preach it! It seems that too often on shows with a complicated male protagonist, the audience is willing to forgive the male lead for his various (and myriad) flaws but holds the wife accountable to a different standard. Skyler from Breaking Bad also comes to mind. I will go to my grave defending Betty, even if I don't always like her.



there's a problem with the writing, too, when the audience should be sympathetic to the wives but they aren't. in mad men, we've seen enough of don's forked up past where we can kind of understand where he's coming from, plus they write him to be charming as hell. betty and megan, not so much. they've gotten a little better on breaking bad, with skylar being funnier and more badass in the last season, because the writers seemed to be much more aware of this problem.



Good point about the writing. I know I should feel bad for Betty - victim of the times perhaps, victim of Don, etc - but I still just really don't like her and never have. Maybe its that I wanted her to stand on her own two feet after Don instead of waiting for another sure-thing powerful male to run to (although I know that the way it happened was probably more real for the show) and she is kind of a crasshole to her kids, like geek sweetheart said. But to your point, I don't think the writers gave her enough of "another side" like they did with Don. (I'm talking specifically about his past with the wife of the real Don Draper. That storyline is the only thing that comes to mind that makes him a sympathetic character. Because otherwise I think he's loathsome and sort of always has been, just dressed in a nice suit and cloaked in an air of mystery.) However that said, I'm sort of most looking forward to Betty's storyline this season. The first episode gave me hope that maybe she'll have a bad-ass Trudy moment. Or at least do something unexpected and more interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Hardcastle McCormick wrote:
elouise wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
I was bent out of shape at so many people hating on Betty when it was Don who was behaving like a crasshole for the entirety of their marriage.

Preach it! It seems that too often on shows with a complicated male protagonist, the audience is willing to forgive the male lead for his various (and myriad) flaws but holds the wife accountable to a different standard. Skyler from Breaking Bad also comes to mind. I will go to my grave defending Betty, even if I don't always like her.



there's a problem with the writing, too, when the audience should be sympathetic to the wives but they aren't. in mad men, we've seen enough of don's forked up past where we can kind of understand where he's coming from, plus they write him to be charming as hell. betty and megan, not so much. they've gotten a little better on breaking bad, with skylar being funnier and more badass in the last season, because the writers seemed to be much more aware of this problem.

Definitely. That's largely what that article that I posted up thread was about.

I think in the beginning they did a better job of depicting Betty as a multidimensional character with whom the audience could sympathize and maybe even relate to. She was the embodiment of housewife syndrome, struggling with the fact that she had everything she was supposed to want (successful husband, children, beautiful house) but was unfulfilled. Not to mention the whole philandering-asshole husband thing. But as the seasons go on, it does sort of seem like she's become the writers' punching bag.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Also you guys, I miss Lane.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:24 pm 
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elouise wrote:
Also you guys, I miss Lane.


Oh, me too. But his end was good television.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:55 pm 
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I see huge differences in Betty and Megan. Betty has always been kind of a crasshole too. She is not very nice to her kids or her friends, she also cheated on Don. Also, remember when she fired the maid/nanny? No remorse. Also, I get that most women aren't crazy about their ex husbands new wives, but she purposefully did things to try and get them into fights, Megan didn't take the bait and didn't let Don either. Betty was married as soon as their divorce was finalized whereas Don was not.

I don't think Don is any great guy, but I do see him as damaged and human, same with Betty. I agree that Betty is seen as this person who has it all and is still unfulfilled, I am sure this was a common feeling for certain-class women, still true!

Megan on the otherhand is really a sweet person. I know many find her annoying, but she was good at advertising, she is smart, fun and nice. She tries to get along with the kids AND be a good parent, something that I am sure would be hard as a step mom and a young woman. She also always wants to work, she wants to maintain a certain position and not be a housewife or mom. I find Megan to a very sympathetic character. I also think she stands on her own really well. I also wouldn't be surprised if she leaves Don when she finds out about his cheating and goes on to be a huge star, or maybe even leave him to pursue her own ventures. I think Don is being extra shitty by cheating on Megan with a woman in the building, he is definitely asking to get caught.

Don's character reminds me a lot of the characters on The Wire. You have these people that do bad things (McNulty) and yet, you still like them (or I do, anyway). He seems really human to me. I get that to many people it is boring to see the same patterns emerge from him, but I think that is the point. After the last couple seasons we all had hope that Don would change, and guess what, not going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:32 pm 
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I used to like Peggy, I just find her mean now. I get she has to put on a mean front but it is tiring...

Joan had some snap in her! I wish we saw more of it!

Pete has always kinda creeped me out...

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:28 pm 
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I am so disappointed that Don is cheating again.

I found Pete's wife refreshing.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:23 pm 
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geeksweetheart wrote:
Well, I agree that Don treated her like trash, but Betty has been horrible to her children many times in the past which is why I've always had a bad taste about her...


This is why I dislike her (also, littlebear summed it up really well.) I like Megan, and I've always lovedTrudy; she seemed like an interesting character waiting for her moment and she finally got it!

vijita wrote:
and the whole Megan/whatsherface thing was really soap opera.


It was, but I really thought that made it interesting on some weird level. Megan is talking to whatsherface (WHF) about her role on a soap opera, and then WHF didn't even realize when the conversation shifted to real life. So she's talking about her role on a TV soap opera, while she's living a soap opera on a TV drama. Whoa.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:53 pm 
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bekki wrote:
geeksweetheart wrote:
Well, I agree that Don treated her like trash, but Betty has been horrible to her children many times in the past which is why I've always had a bad taste about her...


This is why I dislike her (also, littlebear summed it up really well.) I like Megan, and I've always lovedTrudy; she seemed like an interesting character waiting for her moment and she finally got it!

vijita wrote:
and the whole Megan/whatsherface thing was really soap opera.


It was, but I really thought that made it interesting on some weird level. Megan is talking to whatsherface (WHF) about her role on a soap opera, and then WHF didn't even realize when the conversation shifted to real life. So she's talking about her role on a TV soap opera, while she's living a soap opera on a TV drama. Whoa.

So meta.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:06 am 
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Huh. I almost kind of think Megan might have had an abortion and just said it was a miscarriage. I have to watch it again.

I think there will def be more Joan. Probably next episode. No way are the writers going to relegate her. I think she made a choice she thought was good for the most important male in her life.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:19 am 
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It's weird, because they had a conversation right when they got married last season -- didn't they? -- about how Don wanted her to have a kid? And now Megan is all I don't know what you want, and Don is all, oh, I want what you want.

And still: TRUDY! Pete is such a worm, and she's so awesome. Great acting on both sides.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:52 am 
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The actress who plays Trudy has a writeup page in Cosmo. She seems pretty cool...She is also on Community (I do not watch the show so I cannot vouch for it) and sings in a band.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:40 am 
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You guys, I totally just remembered the scene where young Don gets relocated to a flop house and watches through the keyhole as his pregnant mom gets forked by the guy that runs it. How many more reasons for him being totally messed up are they going to give us?

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Last edited by allularpunk on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:40 am 
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missmuffcake wrote:
I used to like Peggy, I just find her mean now. I get she has to put on a mean front but it is tiring...

Joan had some snap in her! I wish we saw more of it!

Pete has always kinda creeped me out...



Peggy's work mentor was Don, so it makes sense to me that she's emulating his style, his drive for perfection, etc. I think it is interesting that the impact is much more in-your-face because she's female, and further, because she is a female in a leadership role in the 60's. When Don insults people's work and tells them to pull an all-nighter to get it right, does anyone blink twice?


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:51 am 
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allularpunk wrote:
You guys, I totally just remembered the scene where young Don gets relocated to a flop house and watches through the keyhole as his pregnant mom gets forked by the guy that runs it. How many more reasons for him being totally messed up are they going to give us?


Yes, Don cheats because of his abysmal childhood and he tortures himself about his cheating. Pete Campbell cheats because he is a spoiled brat in a man's body and he doesn't regret anything.

This scene confused me.

I thought Don was raised by a farmer who was a client of his mother's, after his mother died. I thought that happened when he was a lot younger than as he was portrayed in the last flashback.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:52 am 
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allularpunk wrote:
You guys, I totally just remembered the scene where young Don gets relocated to a flop house and watches through the keyhole as his pregnant mom gets forked by the guy that runs it. How many more reasons for him being totally messed up are they going to give us?


I'm hazy on Don's childhood because it's been a while since I watched the early seasons with all the flashbacks. Someone please refresh my memory. That's not his actual mom, right? Because she died in childbirth? That's, what, his aunt?


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:57 am 
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Oh, that's right, it's his aunt. I forgot. Still forked up, and an incredibly uncomfortable scene.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:34 am 
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I think I've got this straight - Don's mom was a prostitute who died in childbirth. Some lady then dropped him at his father's door (hmm but not sure how they knew he was the father though!), and he was raised by father + stepmother til father got kicked in the head by a horse and died. Stepmother (Abigail) is the pregnant lady from the recent episode.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:56 am 
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missmuffcake, you've never seen community?!?!? ?!?!?!?

i also felt like megan might have had an abortion. (i think sylvia thought she had an abortion too)

she obviously doesn't want a kid because of her career, but i think don doesn't want her to have a kid anymore because he is no-longer infatuated with her.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Allison Brie doing memes (incl. grumpy cat) and falling:
http://www.bust.com/alison-brie-acting- ... memes.html

I like her even more now. Also her last name is my middle name!

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:36 pm 
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If she was 6 weeks along, she probably had only just found out she was pregnant (esp. unexpected - you take a pregnancy test 2, 3 days after a missed period and you're already 4.5 weeks) Arranging an illegal abortion would probably take a little bit of time and effort, right? so if this was the intention it seems like sloppy writing to me.

Plus, television shows from the last couple decades never have sympathetic characters get abortions. It just isn't done. A conveniently timed miscarriage is the tv equivalent of an abortion.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:39 pm 
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but joan had an abortion. (or at least mentioned one she had in the past.)

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:45 pm 
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I think characters are allowed to mention previous abortions if they're on cable shows (the SATC episode comes to mind). But I'm trying to think of the last time a character had an abortion and went on with life and it was fine in show real time. I recall "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" being very jarring for that reason. And with the show set in the '60s.. I just can't imagine it being a thing that happened in passing rather than a focal point of an episode. They did the whole twilight birth thing, surely they'd have a field day over back alley abortions if they were inclined to.. (And yet for an upper class woman like Megan it would not have to be a back alley thing, and that would confuse people) I just can't imagine it. I mean, I'll eat my words if I'm proven wrong, but I just don't see it happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men Season 6 (no comic spoilers! J/K)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Yeah, I wouldn't read into it that she had an abortion. I think that would be a much bigger deal.

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