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 Post subject: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Bathes in Braggs

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So it begins .......

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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Bathes in Braggs

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Since there are a few B-5 fans here I thought I would start a thread for us.

Whether you want to trade Kosh quotes or make any other comment about the series.

I've seen the series several times now.

One of my favorite aspects of the series is the excellent satire they do of the news. Watching the coverage of Syria it occurred to me how much the coverage seemed like an often repeated skit, even down to the same catch phrases. Babylon 5 does a wonderful job of mocking that.

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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Nailed to the V
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I've always pretended this was a poor man's DS9 but after reading up on it some recently it seems like it's actually pretty good (and the idea for DS9 perhaps ripped from early concepts of Babylon 5 in the late 80's). I could probably watch this after I finish ds9


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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:37 am 
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Writes Vegan Haiku

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I think it's more like the other way around - DS9 is light compared to Babylon 5. I've heard that the DS9 writers were forced to up their game for later series after seeing the epic story arcs that B5 was doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:28 am 
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Dr Bronners, MD
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GuiltyofBeingSprite wrote:
I've always pretended this was a poor man's DS9 but after reading up on it some recently it seems like it's actually pretty good (and the idea for DS9 perhaps ripped from early concepts of Babylon 5 in the late 80's). I could probably watch this after I finish ds9


It was better than DS9 in pretty much every way.

YEAH IT'S ON BABY. PUT 'EM UP.

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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:33 am 
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Dr Bronners, MD
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lostinthewires wrote:
I think it's more like the other way around - DS9 is light compared to Babylon 5. I've heard that the DS9 writers were forced to up their game for later series after seeing the epic story arcs that B5 was doing.


Yeah-- B5 did heavy stuff and had a preconceived story arc, while DS9 started off doing the same old Star Trek thing, planning for eternal syndication, stuff not really particularly in order (so the shows could be broadcast in any order depending on the station syndicating it) and resetting things at the end of every episode.

B5 was one of the first shows to take the form (episodic TV) and make it actually episodes in a story with a beginning and end, and that pretty drastically changed the feel of the show and made it feel like stuff that happened in each episode _mattered_-- unlike DS9 or earlier Trek shows (although TNG put a little effort into trying to make stuff matter, sometimes-- the episode where Tasha Yar died for no obvious reason was sort of an attempt at that, I guess).

By structuring the show that way (or adding structure at all), B5 changed how television worked. We wouldn't have had The Wire or Breaking Bad or any number of other more-recent shows if there hadn't been a B5 to demonstrate that episodic long-form story arcs could work on television and that TV producers had (to nobody's surprise) been underestimating the viewing public all along.

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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:49 am 
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solipsistnation wrote:
lostinthewires wrote:
I think it's more like the other way around - DS9 is light compared to Babylon 5. I've heard that the DS9 writers were forced to up their game for later series after seeing the epic story arcs that B5 was doing.


Yeah-- B5 did heavy stuff and had a preconceived story arc, while DS9 started off doing the same old Star Trek thing, planning for eternal syndication, stuff not really particularly in order (so the shows could be broadcast in any order depending on the station syndicating it) and resetting things at the end of every episode.

B5 was one of the first shows to take the form (episodic TV) and make it actually episodes in a story with a beginning and end, and that pretty drastically changed the feel of the show and made it feel like stuff that happened in each episode _mattered_-- unlike DS9 or earlier Trek shows (although TNG put a little effort into trying to make stuff matter, sometimes-- the episode where Tasha Yar died for no obvious reason was sort of an attempt at that, I guess).

By structuring the show that way (or adding structure at all), B5 changed how television worked. We wouldn't have had The Wire or Breaking Bad or any number of other more-recent shows if there hadn't been a B5 to demonstrate that episodic long-form story arcs could work on television and that TV producers had (to nobody's surprise) been underestimating the viewing public all along.

You're being too unkind to DS9, and too kind to Voyager. Even moreso than TNG, episodes in DS9 carried over from each other. There are tons of events in DS9 that would make the show unpleasant to watch out of order, primarily due to all the wars. It wasn't as well connected as B5, but there's continuity.

Contrast this with Voyager: one single storyline that moves at such a glacial pace that each individual episode contributes basically nothing to the arc. When the story moves, and it didn't, it did so at such huge leaps (taking years or decades off of the journey) but since there's no apparent fatigue from it, there's no consequence. And every Voyager episode was wrapped up with a very neat little bow. All of them. The Year of Hell should have stuck, god damn it! It would have at least made the show interesting again!

Enterprise kind of did it better. The temporal cold war was dumb and incomprehensible but it was there. The war with the Xindi was dumb, but other people liked it. And when they jettisoned all of that crepe in the last season and started to get on with connecting the show into established Star Trek history, it was immensely better.

I really need to finish watching Babylon 5.


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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:40 pm 
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I didn't watch Voyager at all.

Well, that's not quite true. I watched a few episodes semi-randomly and decided it was dumb and I wouldn't bother. (I think it was because I was spoiled by B5.) When Enterprise started, I watched a couple of episodes but then I didn't have a TV and even my hardcore Trek friends weren't hosting gatherings to watch each week's show any more.

If you do go back to B5, at least watch up to the end of season 4. There's some pretty fantastic stuff in there. Season 5 is worth watching, but the meaty parts are seasons 3 and 4, from about the time Morden shows up.

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 Post subject: Re: Babylon 5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Bathes in Braggs

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I just found a site that streams all of the episodes for free. I watched a few. It is a shame that the story arc of the telepath wars was never pursued. It could have been good.

The spinoffs weren't so hot.

I doubt there is the motivation to do it, but new episodes with new characters/actors and modern special effects would rock.

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