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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:51 pm 
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beforewisdom wrote:
elouise wrote:
Also, I feel for Jesse but I hope his mopey shtick doesn't last for too much longer because I'm already tired of it.


Like Walt, Jessie is a murderer and became a murderer for money. Walt is the same, but his initial motivation was to provide for his family posthumously. Jessie only wanted money to be free to sit in his house, get high, and watch his life pass by.

I think Jessie is headed for suicide, unless he finds a way to deal with his guilt.

His best shot is to leave the country and set up an organization with his money to help people.



Yeah, I don't necessarily think Jesse set out to be a murderer and for things to escalate as they did. I picture him more as just lazy (as you say) with no real plan beyond what he was doing that day, and he went along for the ride, and then realized he was in deep and so needed to play along for both greed and survival (ie kill Gale - kill or be killed) once he started to see Walt's true colors. I don't think Walt set out to be a murderer and I don't think he thought things would escalate as they did either, however he was definitely a catalyst (see what I did there? chemistry!) for things escalating, and to me that's an important distinction between the 2 of them and why they are who they are today. For Walt, while his motivation was initially security for his family, it quickly became ego. He has become a meglomaniac, and I wonder if he's going to be able sit on the sidelines. Pbly so, since Hank knows, but there's the Lydia angle that is sure to add to the story... And in contrast I feel Jesse just lost himself in the shuffle.

I didn't contemplate he might commit suicide, but that's a good call. His neighborhood makin' it rain stunt would be consistent with that turn of events. Poor Jesse.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:15 pm 
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blondiefk wrote:
I don't see Jessie as a bad person the way I see Walt. It seems to me their positions have changed and as the show has progressed Jessie has become more moral as Walt becomes less (relatively speaking of course.)


Jessie's conscience has become stronger while Walt's has become weaker, but I don't see that it has made a difference because Jessie hasn't changed his actions. He is still a murderor profiting off of other people's misery. He just feels more bad about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:17 pm 
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Or Jesse turns Walt and himself in to deal with his guilt?

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:20 pm 
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emmalv wrote:
escalate as they did either, however he was definitely a catalyst (see what I did there? chemistry!)


*applause*

Quote:
I didn't contemplate he might commit suicide, but that's a good call. His neighborhood makin' it rain stunt would be consistent with that turn of events. Poor Jesse.


The money stunt is D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y going to lead to him getting busted by someone, either the law or other thugs. If that doesn't happen suicide might be his fate as he can't get any peace of mind.

I don't think Walt will be able to sit things out. The corporate drug dealer scum woman isn't going to leave him alone, and neither is Hank. He is going to have to run unless he kills the woman and his brother-inlaw.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:33 pm 
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Well, gotta say the show is doing a great job helping us feel badly for Jesse. I feel awful for the guy.

I think Walt has no idea how long he's supposed to survive with the cancer, he was just making something up to get Hank to think it wasn't worth pursuing.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:56 am 
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My one disappointment about the show is that while the writers have humazined the drug dealers & killers ( think how everyone thinks of Mike as lovable ) they have not done the same thing for the addicts. The power of the show comes from humanizing people the audience wouldn't otherwise see as people. I think the power could have been cranked up if in addition to humanizing the villains, they also humanized the addicts. Instead of just showing the villains as starting off with nice people with problems, friends and family, do the same for the victims too. I think a lot of dramatic power could be harvested from doing that and showing the villains feeding off the addicts destruction while being made to humanize/sympathize with both sets of groups.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:57 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:22 am 
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beforewisdom wrote:
My one disappointment about the show is that while the writers have humazined the drug dealers & killers ( think how everyone thinks of Mike as lovable ) they have not done the same thing for the addicts. The power of the show comes from humanizing people the audience wouldn't otherwise see as people. I think the power could have been cranked up if in addition to humanizing the villains, they also humanized the addicts. Instead of just showing the villains as starting off with nice people with problems, friends and family, do the same for the victims too. I think a lot of dramatic power could be harvested from doing that and showing the villains feeding off the addicts destruction while being made to humanize/sympathize with both sets of groups.



I actually think Jessie's storyline does this. Although a meth cook, Jessie is an addict and his relapses and stints in rehab as well as the story of his relationship with Jane are I think what makes him human and sympathetic to many people. That is the main difference between he and Walt his vulnerablity which is largely fueling his relapses and addiction.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:35 am 
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I agree with you, but Jessie, his GF, Wendy and the other addicts lives are not as portrayed as intensely tragic as many addicts lives are. They don't show them as starting off as nearly human/nice as the pushers and they don't portray their downfall nearly as much.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:37 pm 
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I saw the opposite, at least with Jesse and Jane. They really humanized these characters. I felt like Jane's downfalls were portrayed as well as they could be for a supporting character. They spent a lot of screen time on her. Also, I am not sure who thinks of Mike as lovable, but Jane sure seemed nicer to me than Mike.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:53 pm 
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kimba wrote:
I saw the opposite, at least with Jesse and Jane. They really humanized these characters. I felt like Jane's downfalls were portrayed as well as they could be for a supporting character. They spent a lot of screen time on her. Also, I am not sure who thinks of Mike as lovable, but Jane sure seemed nicer to me than Mike.


I agree, I thought Jane was pretty darn tragic.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:50 pm 
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lobsteriffic wrote:
kimba wrote:
I saw the opposite, at least with Jesse and Jane. They really humanized these characters. I felt like Jane's downfalls were portrayed as well as they could be for a supporting character. They spent a lot of screen time on her. Also, I am not sure who thinks of Mike as lovable, but Jane sure seemed nicer to me than Mike.


I agree, I thought Jane was pretty darn tragic.


Agree with the above. Maybe beforewisdom is thinking specifically about Jesse's 2 friends (their names elude me right now)? They are just portrayed as stoner jackasses.

I suppose it mimics life: no matter one may be, some people are sympathetic and some people are just jackasses.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:00 pm 
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emmalv wrote:
lobsteriffic wrote:
kimba wrote:
I saw the opposite, at least with Jesse and Jane. They really humanized these characters. I felt like Jane's downfalls were portrayed as well as they could be for a supporting character. They spent a lot of screen time on her. Also, I am not sure who thinks of Mike as lovable, but Jane sure seemed nicer to me than Mike.


I agree, I thought Jane was pretty darn tragic.


Agree with the above. Maybe beforewisdom is thinking specifically about Jesse's 2 friends (their names elude me right now)? They are just portrayed as stoner jackasses.

I suppose it mimics life: no matter one may be, some people are sympathetic and some people are just jackasses.


I agree with all this. And a show that followed someone before they became an addict would be a different show. I also think some of the peripheral characters have been pretty Damn tragic - that couple that left their kid alone?

I don't think that just because drugs are a major part of the show they are obligated to show all aspects of addiction and the people it touches. It does what it does exceptionally well and I think the fact so many people sympathize with Jesse suggests that it does do a good job humanizing addicts.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:45 am 
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lobsteriffic wrote:
kimba wrote:
I saw the opposite, at least with Jesse and Jane. They really humanized these characters. I felt like Jane's downfalls were portrayed as well as they could be for a supporting character. They spent a lot of screen time on her. Also, I am not sure who thinks of Mike as lovable, but Jane sure seemed nicer to me than Mike.


I agree, I thought Jane was pretty darn tragic.


Tragic in the literal sense.....she died. I just didn't feel the kind of tragedy with her that I feel when I see a piece on the news about a meth addict after they show you the pictures of what the person looked like before, the life they had before, the promise they had before, the interviews with friends and family and then showing you the picture of what they physically became, how they lived.

Jane and Jesse ( even Wendy and the addict parents who stole the ATM ) looked pretty healthy. They lived in a comfortable environment. I just didn't *feel* their downfall as much as I did with Walter or some of the villains.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:47 am 
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emmalv wrote:
lobsteriffic wrote:
kimba wrote:
I saw the opposite, at least with Jesse and Jane. They really humanized these characters. I felt like Jane's downfalls were portrayed as well as they could be for a supporting character. They spent a lot of screen time on her. Also, I am not sure who thinks of Mike as lovable, but Jane sure seemed nicer to me than Mike.


I agree, I thought Jane was pretty darn tragic.


Agree with the above. Maybe beforewisdom is thinking specifically about Jesse's 2 friends (their names elude me right now)? They are just portrayed as stoner jackasses.



LOL! In college I worked in a food co-op and there were always a few guys like that around. "Stoner jackasses" is the perfect way to sum that type up! :).

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:51 am 
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blondiefk wrote:
I don't think that just because drugs are a major part of the show they are obligated to show all aspects of addiction and the people it touches.


Obligated, no. Missed opportunity for more innovative drama yes. The show has followed an innovative trend in getting the audience to humanize and relate to people who they would otherwise never do either with. In Breaking Bad that was partly done by showing some of the main characters like Walter living a life like you might before they begin their downward spiral. My point is that drama could have been increased and become even more innovative if the audience was made to feel sympathy both for the villains AND the people they fed off.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:05 am 
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Season 5, Episode 10. Hank has the emotional life of a 16 year old, but at least he stuck to his standards. However, I thought it was kind of sleazy how he approached Sklylar in the restaurant to rat her husband ( not knowing that she would implicate herself ). Still, he is knowingly ending his career to do what is right.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:07 am 
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Totally sleazy! I was rooting for Skylar to get her wits about her, and thankfully she did. I so can't wait for next week, for the interrogation.

Before I never questioned what Hank would do: As Skylar said, pursue Walt at all costs. But this episode made me think. If you were Hank, would you still pursue him? I mean, Walt is most likely going to be dead anyway and you will kill your wife's relationship with her sister (its dead now but maybe its mendable? They're sisters after all), destroy your relationship with your niece and nephew, and destroy your career. Should he just let it go?


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:08 am 
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beforewisdom wrote:
Season 5, Episode 10. Hank has the emotional life of a 16 year old, but at least he stuck to his standards. However, I thought it was kind of sleazy how he approached Sklylar in the restaurant to rat her husband ( not knowing that she would implicate herself ). Still, he is knowingly ending his career to do what is right.


I don't think cares about "what's right" as much as "being right" and in his head "winning". I don't know who's ego bigger; Walt's or Hank's.


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:10 am 
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Tynamite wrote:
beforewisdom wrote:
Season 5, Episode 10. Hank has the emotional life of a 16 year old, but at least he stuck to his standards. However, I thought it was kind of sleazy how he approached Sklylar in the restaurant to rat her husband ( not knowing that she would implicate herself ). Still, he is knowingly ending his career to do what is right.


I don't think cares about "what's right" as much as "being right" and in his head "winning". I don't know who's ego bigger; Walt's or Hank's.

+1 I totally got the impression Hank is as big a meglomaniac as Walt in that scene. Glad to see Skylar showing some serious strength.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:13 am 
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Watching this show is stressful! (in a good way)


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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:56 am 
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Hank's career is over no matter what he does.

As Marie said, if he does nothing and the DEA find out about Walt, they will think Hank colluded with him.

If Hank turns Walt in, they will likely think the same thing. The DEA knows they are tight, Walt has been to DEA family functions. So, they will likely think Hank was colluding with him, got into an argument and is turning Walt in as revenge.

No guarantee Walt will die. He is a liar and even if he is telling the truth he might go into remission again.

Skylar is only admirable in keeping her cool enough to not rat on Walt -- which is in her self interest also. She was/is working in collusion with a drug maker -- not an admirable thing. She is making money off of other people's extreme misery.

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:01 pm 
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you know the one good thing about all the evidence being in hank's and marie's garage?

get on with it, arsonists!

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Excellent point. Walt isn't quite ready to have them killed, but hiring a thug to burn up their garage? Especially with some special chemist's incendiary device that will burn fast and safe? Why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking Bad
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:06 pm 
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I was so disappointed the show ended at the cliffhanger, I was getting very excited about that interrogation. What a good episode. Hank kind of blew it with Skylar.


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