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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:38 pm 
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sometimes my body craves heroin, ya know?

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:39 pm 
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I craved margaritas like nobody's business while I was preggo. Do you think the baby needed tequila?


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:39 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
tonyb wrote:
FootFace wrote:
This comment isn't about pregnancy or pregnancy cravings. Or about what to do about cravings during pregnancy or any other time.

Just that I call bullshiitake on the idea that a craving—any craving—is a signal that one's body is deficient in some nutrient or other, and your supercomputer, supernutritionist brain is coming to the rescue.


It's not bullshiitake. The body knows what it wants. When I'm training for Marathons, my body craves protein. I sate that craving with lots of different vegetable proteins. When I scuba dive, my body craves crappy carbs to replace the calories lost by the cold water and exertion, so I eat up on some french fries.
.


What's your basis for that statement? And how do you respond to the fact that when athletes overtrain, they lose their appetites (crave nothing), even though they clearly need more nutrients? When I have PMS, does my body REALLY need an entire pint of ice cream followed by a pizza, cake, and a bag of chips? Because that's what I crave, even though all of those things are unhealthy and offer no relief whatsoever, and in fact may exacerbate PMS symptoms.

Of course, pregnancy cravings are an entirely different beast than anything you or I have ever experienced, but from what I know, they are based not on what the body needs, but on changing perceptions of foods caused by massive hormonal and physical shifts that the body goes through in pregnancy, largely the first trimester. Of course, if my understanding of pregnancy cravings is wrong, I hope someone with more knowledge correct me!


It's based on the marathons and training that I've done. I've overtained, and lost my appetite. Hours later however, I'm craving protein.

Check out this post from Scott Jurek, champion vegan ultrarunner: http://www.scottjurek.com/blog/2009/04/ ... n-the-run/

Cravings for ice cream pizza, cake, that's part of a craving the body has for easy nutrients. There's even theories that we're addicted to easy carbs because of the insulin response. With the proliferation of easy carbs being the root cause of the obesity epidemic. But that's not what I crave after a run. I crave protein (and to some extent, fat). As vegans, it's really easy to get really over-carbed.

Even if the cravings are caused purely by hormonal and physical shifts, they're difficult to ignore for many, and as several have stated, it can make someone crave only that thing, and everything else makes them nauseous. If someone loses weight as a result during pregnancy, that's dangerous. I'm not saying cook up an egg omelet the moment the stick turns blue, just not to let veganism get in the way of maintaining pregnant weight or nutrition.

Also, for forks sake, let up on the bashing of pregnant vegetarian women. We're talking about pregnant vegetarians, not Ted Nugget.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:45 pm 
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tonyb wrote:
Ted Nugget.

I just want to know if this was a typo, intentional or my new favorite filter.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:48 pm 
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I wish it was a filter (and then I could take credit for it).

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:50 pm 
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tonyb wrote:
Also, for forks sake, let up on the bashing of pregnant vegetarian women. We're talking about pregnant vegetarians, not Ted Nugget.

No one here is bashing pregnant women. The general response seems to be empathy about dealing with pregnancy cravings and nausea and a little bit of annoyance about bad nutritional information.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:58 pm 
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mollyjade wrote:
tonyb wrote:
Also, for forks sake, let up on the bashing of pregnant vegetarian women. We're talking about pregnant vegetarians, not Ted Nugget.

No one here is bashing pregnant women. The general response seems to be empathy about dealing with pregnancy cravings and nausea and a little bit of annoyance about bad nutritional information.


A couple people have agreed with this:

Quote:
I wanted to respond, but luckily Laura at Vegansaurus said it better than I could. http://vegansaurus.com/post/4530956435/ ... -your-diet


The language in that post, the vile and condescension, and the length of the rant, you'd think she was talking about Ted Nudgent or the guy from GoDaddy, not a vegetarian pregnant woman.


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 Post subject: Re: natalie portman...wow
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:12 pm 
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http://forum.theppk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9349

topic merge!

(and don't forget the search function!)

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:12 pm 
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tonyb wrote:
The language in that post, the vile and condescension, and the length of the rant, you'd think she was talking about Ted Nudgent or the guy from GoDaddy, not a vegetarian pregnant woman.

She's not bashing vegetarian pregnant women. She's suggesting that someone as famous and looked up to as Natalie Portman might do best to just keep her mouth shut in order to stop the knee-jerk media from going crazy with Portman giving up on the vegan movement. She's famous so obviously a lot of people look up to her/copy her, and it doesn't help veganism when Portman unnecessarily goes on and on to the media about her off-again vegan diet. It's an opinion (not an article) about Portman only, and not all other vegetarian pregnant women.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:12 pm 
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I can be sympathetic about how hard pregnancy cravings are and at the same time want Natalie to just stop talking about her diet. I'm really sick of hearing about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Wait, actually, can we make "Ted Nudgent" the filter?

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:14 pm 
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I think you might be referring to Ted Nugent but I'm not sure.

Not being a parent (so I don't understand pregnancy cravings), my only gripe with the article was that she lives in LA or NYC and she couldn't get vegan baked goods? Ok. Whatever. Make an effort. Make your own! Isa has books!


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:15 pm 
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Portman couldn't decide if she was vegan or not even before she was pregnant.

I wish that people could just be comfortable with the fact that they don't want to give up animal products and not talk about veganism not being healthy. Last I checked, cookies made with eggs were not necessary for healthy fetal development.

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:19 pm 
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I made the horrible decision to read the comments following that original article. I'm gonna go eat some fruit now.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:20 pm 
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And all I can think about is how this thread is going to end up on meatmeat.

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Meggs wrote:
I think you might be referring to Ted Nugent but I'm not sure.

Not being a parent (so I don't understand pregnancy cravings), my only gripe with the article was that she lives in LA or NYC and she couldn't get vegan baked goods? Ok. Whatever. Make an effort. Make your own! Isa has books!


Isn't there a Babycakes LA? I know there's one in NYC, and there's that old timey ice cream fountain!

I don't really care what Natalie Portman eats too much, but I thought it was cool that she was vegan, and I hope she continues to do animal rights activism or whatever she does.

Incidentally, I've been running more, and all I'm craving is fruit and granola/whole grain cereal. Not sure what that's about, but it's delicious.

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:41 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
And all I can think about is how this thread is going to end up on meatmeat.

Ha! (Okay... maybe that's not funny. But I laughed anyway.)


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Anecdotal, personal experience is not scientific evidence. Someone press the Chipmunk Alert Button and let's all see if there is evidence of the empirical sort regarding cravings and nutritional needs. Science to the rescue!!!

Some pregnant women have crazy, crazy hormones and crazy, crazy emotional swings. I think that might have as much if not more to do with cravings than any mysterious nutritional need. But that is just a guess. I'm not bashing pregnant women but I also find it incredulous that a woman of Portman's means could not find vegan baked goods. That sort of craving seems like wanting comfort food to me, not some nutritional need.

(I really wanted jalapenos poppers which are of negligible nutritional value)

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:35 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
This comment isn't about pregnancy or pregnancy cravings. Or about what to do about cravings during pregnancy or any other time.

Just that I call bullshiitake on the idea that a craving—any craving—is a signal that one's body is deficient in some nutrient or other, and your supercomputer, supernutritionist brain is coming to the rescue.
This. I knew a woman who used her pregnancies to ingest any amount of crepe she wanted because "I just needed it." (Seriously, I am talking about hot fudge sundaes, family-sized bags of peanut M&Ms, french fries, etc.) There's nothing wrong with indulging cravings within reason, but it's specious logic to suggest that every time you feel like eating something, it indicates that your body is sending you some mystical signal that your developing fetus must have that substance. (A quick Google search for "pica" should disabuse anyone of that idea, unless we want to posit that there are special baby-growing properties to be found found in clay, tile grout, or dirt.) I had a passion for smokehouse almonds during my first pregnancy, but I didn't imagine that made hickory seasoning the cornerstone of prenatal nutrition. If Natalie Portman is too lame to come up with anything better than "my fetus needs baked goods made with eggs," then I guess she may actually be as vapid as her Oscar speech suggested.
Tofulish wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
I don't think it's weird or awful that she gave into pregnancy cravings - it's that she craved baked goods and it was too much trouble to get vegan ones. Baked vegan goods! In LA1
Maybe we can write to Natalie and offer to send her a constant stream of baked goods while she is pregnant! Still, its good she is at least vegetarian right?
Well, at least until her body tells her that it needs a baby seal!

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:47 pm 
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i was an extremely sloppy vegan while pregnant. for me it was that i went crazy staying at home, had no motivation to cook, and got nauseous at the drop of a hat. so i'd be out somewhere and get fall-over starving all of a sudden and have about 1 minute to stuff my face with something before feeling like i was about to throw up. so i ate a fair number of non-vegan coffee shop muffins and stuff like that. the only specific craving i had was for poutine, and there is no way my body "needed" that.

i heartily agree with all the previous posters that i wish she wouldn't talk about it, especially couched in nutritional terms. we all know that pregnancy is super rough on the body, and i personally think preggos get a free pass on just about everything, but people take celebrities seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:53 pm 
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tonyb wrote:
Portman was vilified on this board a few years back. A vegetarian who's done more for animals than almost anyone on this board got smeared so bad they had to delete the thread. That's sad.

My thoughts on pregnancy: Do what you think is best. Don't worry about what a message board thinks is or isn't bullshiitake. Fetal development is the primary importance, and if ignoring your food cravings for non-vegan food is causing you to lose weight, for forks sake eat up. Go back to vegan after, but the baby is more important.


I'd really disagree that Ms. Portman has done more for animals than most people on this board, and even if that were the case, does that make her above criticism? That'd be like Isa chowing down on a cheese pizza because there weren't any cheese alternatives, and us saying, "it's okay, she's written a lot of cookbooks." (Speaking of people I think have done more for animals than Natalie...) Furthermore, I'm pretty sure she doesn't care what people on a message board think. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it.
I don't care what the hell Natalie eats, but when a public figure makes comments that make unnecessarily make veganism appear too challenging, too unhealthy, or incompatible with being pregnant, it bums me out. Especially when, as many previous posters have pointed out, vegan baked goods are not hard to find or make, especially if you're a millionaire.

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:57 pm 
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I'm impressed anyone can run a marathon with their knickers in that much of a knot.


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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:59 pm 
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fezza wrote:
I'm impressed anyone can run a marathon with their knickers in that much of a knot.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:05 pm 
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vijita wrote:
I wanted to respond, but luckily Laura at Vegansaurus said it better than I could. http://vegansaurus.com/post/4530956435/ ... -your-diet


hahah! this is a great response! a really great response

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 Post subject: Re: Natalie Portman gives up vegan diet (during pregnancy).
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:07 pm 
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You guys are being really mean. Her husband went off to war and got captured by Islamist extremists and she thought he was dead. He wasn't dead, of course, because he was like THE BEST MARINE EVER. But she thought he was and so she had Jake Gyllenhall build her a kitchen, presumably to bake vegan cookies. And then one night she like SMOKED POT and totally exploded the goodie good image that Jake had of her. And also, the pot gave her the munchies for Jake Gyllenhall's face! Then she found out that her husband was alive but he had committed atrocities worse than Natalie Portman's acting (like his weird haircut.) AND THEN he came home and almost killed EVERYBODY. So ease the fork up and let my girl have the egg cookie that her fetus is craving. JEEZUS.

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