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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:33 am 
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Well, sure, it could. And while I do think we are responsible for what we write, I also feel uncomfortable with blaming a marginalized person for doing what they need to do to survive a forked up and oppressive society. Is it the choice I would make? No. Is it the choice that leads to the most social good? Probably not. Can I blame the guy for doing what he needs to do so that his entire world doesn't fall apart? Not really.

And you're right, I'm sure this piece isn't helpful for a lot of young religious folks questioning their sexuality, but I feel like we're putting an awful lot of pressure on this one person when he is, quite explicitly, not the person to go to if you are wanting to reconcile your faith with having a sex life that reflects your desires and identity.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:09 am 
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J-Dub, what about the point Mat brought up? He's basically declaring any family that falls outside of his very narrow criteria to be illegitimate. I think for that he should be called to the table. I could care less, really about who, what, and why he marries and forks who he does.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:44 am 
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It doesn't bother me that he's in a relationship with a woman because like previously said, some people identify as one thing but their partner becomes the exception to the rule, like a woman in a relationship with a woman who's just like "I'm straight, but she's the exception, the only woman I've been attracted to and love."

What I resent is people already holding this up as an example of how religious gays should function, even people on my tumblr dash who are normally anti-homophobia held this up as "beautiful", saying it brought tears to their eyes and is a good example of how religious homosexuality works, totally missing where he says homosexual acts are a sin and other forms are family are illegitimate.

Which, as a religious queer, makes me a little angry.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:56 am 
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Vantine wrote:
J-Dub, what about the point Mat brought up? He's basically declaring any family that falls outside of his very narrow criteria to be illegitimate. I think for that he should be called to the table. I could care less, really about who, what, and why he marries and forks who he does.

It's certainly shitty, yes. But...I mean, he's a mormon.

I don't know, I just can't really get worked up over a mormon (gay or not) being homophobic. I mean, it's a central tenet to their religion. Does that make it okay? Certainly not. Does it make it surprising? No.

I just feel like there are so many mormons (and evangelicals) out there espousing similar crap--but who are at least maybe able to reconcile their sexuality with their choice of partners--that I can't really care more about this one particular homophobe. I mostly just feel sorry for him.

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"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:39 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
Vantine wrote:
J-Dub, what about the point Mat brought up? He's basically declaring any family that falls outside of his very narrow criteria to be illegitimate. I think for that he should be called to the table. I could care less, really about who, what, and why he marries and forks who he does.

It's certainly shitty, yes. But...I mean, he's a mormon.

I don't know, I just can't really get worked up over a mormon (gay or not) being homophobic. I mean, it's a central tenet to their religion. Does that make it okay? Certainly not. Does it make it surprising? No.

I just feel like there are so many mormons (and evangelicals) out there espousing similar crap--but who are at least maybe able to reconcile their sexuality with their choice of partners--that I can't really care more about this one particular homophobe. I mostly just feel sorry for him.


I don't even see his view of families as homophobic; he invalidated adoptive parents, blended families, foster parents, single parents, and a myriad of other families.

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Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:33 pm 
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I just find it slightly concerning that this guy apparently offers counseling on LGBT issues from a Christian perspective, whatever that means. Maybe he does manage to stay impartial and not say "well, if I can do it the "acceptable way", you can"; I wouldn't know.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:41 am 
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Vantine wrote:
j-dub wrote:
Vantine wrote:
J-Dub, what about the point Mat brought up? He's basically declaring any family that falls outside of his very narrow criteria to be illegitimate. I think for that he should be called to the table. I could care less, really about who, what, and why he marries and forks who he does.

It's certainly shitty, yes. But...I mean, he's a mormon.

I don't know, I just can't really get worked up over a mormon (gay or not) being homophobic. I mean, it's a central tenet to their religion. Does that make it okay? Certainly not. Does it make it surprising? No.

I just feel like there are so many mormons (and evangelicals) out there espousing similar crap--but who are at least maybe able to reconcile their sexuality with their choice of partners--that I can't really care more about this one particular homophobe. I mostly just feel sorry for him.


I don't even see his view of families as homophobic; he invalidated adoptive parents, blended families, foster parents, single parents, and a myriad of other families.


Well, with the exception of adoptive parents, none of those fit the definition of a Mormon "eternal family," which is what they're supposed to be aiming for. The parents get sealed to each other, and then any children born after that are considered to be born sealed to the parents. If they adopt kids, or have kids before the parents are sealed to each other, then the kids can be sealed to the parents, and all that means that the family will be together, as a family, for eternity. Kids can't be sealed to more than one set of parents, and things like foster care which are temporary by definition definitely don't count toward an eternal family.


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