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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
Apparently Vancouver City Police would refuse to look for missing aboriginal women, saying they were "just hookers":

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/missing-aborig ... 00636.html


This is one of those things that makes me rage, but at the same time, in no way at all am I ever surprised.

My dad was a cab driver in Vancouver at the time, and he said it was common knowledge what was happening. The sex trade workers he knew in the DTES knew who to look out for, would tell him and other cab drivers who to look out for, if certain women hadn't been seen, etc. And my dad reported it to the police multiple times.

Absolutely everything about Pickton, the way the police handled it then, and the way the inquiry is going now makes me so angry and sad I can barely breathe.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:25 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
Absolutely everything about Pickton, the way the police handled it then, and the way the inquiry is going now makes me so angry and sad I can barely breathe.

God, me too.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:16 am 
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I just had to explain to a 31-year-old cisgender man what a vulva is. Like, not just "what is the difference between a vulva and a vagina?". Full blown "what does 'vulva' mean?" I have had to resort to diagrams. I am still not sure he understands. This is a highly intelligent adult who went to high school in the USA and was never taught what a vulva is.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:37 am 
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choirqueer wrote:
I just had to explain to a 31-year-old cisgender man what a vulva is. Like, not just "what is the difference between a vulva and a vagina?". Full blown "what does 'vulva' mean?" I have had to resort to diagrams. I am still not sure he understands. This is a highly intelligent adult who went to high school in the USA and was never taught what a vulva is.


Ugh, I've had to do the exact same thing with a woman...who went to school in the same town as me and theoretically participated in the same sex ed programs. I don't know what happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:23 pm 
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I was disheartened to find that someone I really like feels perfectly comfortable spouting really sexist remarks.
I posted on Facebook about my dislike of Zooey Deschanel's persona (she may be a lovely person, but her manic-pixie-dreamgirl persona drives me batty. I've been watching old episodes of Weeds, which spurred my lame little post). I gave my reasons--her shtick seems manufactured and forced, not a very engaging actress, her socially-acceptable 'quirky good looks'. Some female friends chimed in with similar views, and my (male) friend said he thought Zooey was sexy but agreed with my opinions on her acting. Then, he noted that since all the other responders were female, we MUST be jealous of Zooey D, which he stated was 'typical' of women. He was politely called out on his sexism ("That's very sexist.") He then started going on about he was being 'attacked', and that he should have known better than to state 'facts' because he was the 'lone male' in the bunch. Then he went on about how oversensitive we all were, and how our offense was silly. I deleted all of his comments because he was gleefully trolling and I didn't want him to get any more attention.

It really bothered me. I'm rarely subjected to such blatant displays of privilege among my friends, and I'm still really pissed that he subjected me and my friends to that. Next time I see him, I'm going to give him the what's what. Jerk.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:38 am 
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SassyOh wrote:
Zooey Deschanel's persona


This has been challenging my feminism as well. In a bit of a different way. I've always been quirky.....in a much less socially acceptable way....but still. I also dress similarly. I love volunteering with kids and acting all goofy (not the Canadian female prison version of "goofy"). When I'm in a happy, chipper mood I kind of act in a similar way to the character.

However, I do not look like Zooey, have wimpsters chasing after me, and I do not sob watching dirty dancing on repeat, obsess over dudes....and I can be a angry fledgling social worker who wants to fight for social justice and change the world.

I don't know- I think I just need to accept that those traits aren't a "bad" thing- and that because I share something with a stereotype doesn't mean I am one. It just makes me question myself a lot. "Am I wearing this novelty hat because I think its awesome or because I'm trying to fit a stereotype?". Usually I just say fork it and wear the novelty hat anyways.

Oh well, in the words of the great Kimya Dawson: "We are all so complicated, and I am also complicated:



In other news.....I got into a huge facebook fight with my friends brother.

Scenario:

Friend posts a link to this article. Her comment on it is "why don't they have these in Kenya?" (She and her husband are adopting a child from Kenya).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12600166

Comments:

Me: They have it in Vancouver too at St. Paul's hospital

Friend: They have many around the world, plus safe policies where parents can drop a baby/child off at any hospital etc and no questions will be asked. - but I don't understand 'why' they don't have it where it is needed most - in a country where a baby/child is abandoned every 10 minutes. I will assume the answer is - Because it is illegal to abandon your child... so doing so would be aiding a crime? Or perhaps that the hospitals etc. are already overburdened and doing so may encourage more abandonments?

Me: Hmm....it strikes me as ideological. Since it really wouldn't cost much to run it. Patriarchal societies that demonize women who are unable to be caregivers....yeah

Me: It always comes back to patriarchy....or other forms of oppression- yay social work schoolin'!

Friend's Friend: This is what i wantedt to start in Kibera but there is alot of controversy. the govt thinks more babies will be dumped. abandonment is actually illegal

Friends brother: (paraphrased as my friend deleted the comment) Why don't you think about whether or not you want a kid before you go and get pregnant. If it were up to me, I'd set up a sniper next to this "abandonment cradle" and blow off the head of the selfish %^^* (don't remember which term he used).

Me: o_0 Umm, lack of access to birth control? Men who rape women? Or women who enjoy sex but have no access to birth control or don't understand how to use it? Oh privilege....some people just can't see past it.

Friends brother:And I think it encourages it more, makes it easier for gutless losers to get rid of their kid easier and I don't think it should be encourage, it's like given junkies clean needless to use

And then my head exploded with rage that this dude is related to my lovely friend. I went on a huge tirade about harm reduction, but that's not as relevant. We then get back to the topic at hand.

Me: .......Yes, if we lived in a perfect world where inequality and oppression didn't exist maybe we wouldn't need services such as needle exchanges or angels cradles (that's the one in Vancouver). But we don't. And it will take a very long time until we do (if it ever happens). Remember your privilege- you cannot relate to a mother struggling with extreme poverty in Africa- no matter how kind/empathetic you claim you are.

Friends Brother: I realize that but if I'm poor and can't afford a kid I'm not risking the chance to have a kid. And they should do the same self control they have to accept some of the blame

My Friend: Bro- MANY of these babies are created out of a rape situation. The same common sense rules that apply here, are not applicable in a developing country. Many of them do lack the education, access to birth control and are influenced by cultural beliefs, stigmas etc. In most of these situations... the finger can be pointed at the man. It isn't a situation of 'not giving a shiitake'... it is a situation of desperation. You cannot say what you would do in their situation, because you don't the situation. Take for example a Mother who sells herself for money to feed the 3 children she has at home, where the Father has taken off. You know me pretty well - so think about this when I say that even me, yes - would damn well sell sex if I was faced with such desperation and having my children fade away and die before my own eyes. What IF - in one of these situations, the condom breaks, or a man forces himself on me.. and I become pregnant? I can't afford to feed the 3 I have at home. I certainly can't afford another... so yes, I will abandon this child and hope that it is picked up by a police officer or missionary. Damn rights I would do that all because I CARE! - and so would you, if he knew the desperation these women are faced with. So instead of your suggestion (that I deleted)... how about do something to support and empower these women?

And that's the end.

The only positive thing is that my friend used to be pretty conservative with certain social issues, and while some of her points are a bit problematic, at least she's learning. If only she could learn that most of the stuff she described is the same in Canada too.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:50 pm 
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I really don't know who to talk to about this. I'm pretty angry. A (now former) friend of mine, who is male, outed himself as a Nice Guy (TM) yesterday.

We were chatting (online) after not talking for a while. So I started talking about my plans for the weekend, which involves seeing someone who I have the World's Biggest Crush on. He became really angry and started telling me that he wanted me, I'm making a mistake, I'm "the one with the problem" (?), the guy I have a crush on is a "deadbeat." He was basically groveling and asked why he wasn't good enough, what was wrong with him. Then it turned into how horrible I am, and what a bisque I am. I just said "whatevs, going to shower, bye."

I am not responsible for his feelings. I am not a horrible person because I am quite happy having a crush on this other person. I am not a horrible person because I don't return his feelings. I do not owe him anything. Mutual friends have basically made it out like I'm overreacting but I don't think I am. I no longer consider him my friend, because he obviously never was.

My question is, do I simply say "We are no longer friends," and leave it at that, or do I give him a breakdown of why we aren't friends? Do I completely stop communicating with him? Why do Nice Guys (TM) think this sort of thing is acceptable? I'm really frustrated and I'm not sure if I feel bad about how he is clearly hurt, but I think I might.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Ew, DrakeRedcrest, that's awful. If you'd feel comfortable, you should tell him why you're not friends. Someone has to disabuse folks of the Hollywood movie "nice guy" notion. Haranguing someone you have a crush on you when it's not returned is not "nice." It's not romantic. It's gross and manipulative.
That said, if you don't want to, you shouldn't feel pressure to explain.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:31 am 
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Rowan wrote:
SassyOh wrote:
Zooey Deschanel's persona


This has been challenging my feminism as well. In a bit of a different way. I've always been quirky.....in a much less socially acceptable way....but still. I also dress similarly. I love volunteering with kids and acting all goofy (not the Canadian female prison version of "goofy"). When I'm in a happy, chipper mood I kind of act in a similar way to the character.

I don't want to seem to ignore the other part of your post, but this really struck a chord. Similarly, I've seen a few things lately pointing the finger at cupcakes and ukulele as symptoms of some "new femininity" or whimsy or... whatever... with the implication being that it's all a bit of a betrayal. I can see why the persona Zooey Deschanel is peddling or helping to market (also carefully crafted by the show's writers etc.) is problematic, but on the other hand I'm absolutely sure I'm allowed to like something harmless just because I do; and I'm sure that liking to make or even photograph cupcakes because I think they're pretty says nothing about my views on equality, women's rights to control and enjoy their own bodies etc. If I take anything worthwhile from this, it's a reminder to avoid generalisations based on the merest clues (and hey, I'm guilty of those at times). So yes, wear the novelty hat because you want to.

As for the ukulele, which is not simply a cutesy guitar but an instrument with over one hundred years of history... I'll be sure to tell Eddie Vedder, James Hill, AFP, Nellie McKay and the whole gang to stop acting like a bunch of flirtatious gamines, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:49 am 
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All the members of my family at a family gathering at the weekend who found various ways of asking me why I've not had children. The most subtle was "Still a career girl?" so you can imagine the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:08 am 
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torque wrote:
Efcliz wrote:
I quite often choose and order the wine, and about half of the time the server offers it to the male in the group to taste. It is highly annoying. Also alcohol related, quite often I'll order a beer and my husband will order a soft drink and 98% of those times the soft drink is offered to me. yuk.

both of these are the story of my life.

this happens to me all the time! I'm so stoked that you guys also experience it and I'm not alone. well, not stoked that you get to experience it, but you know what I mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:00 am 
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The pro-lifer who told me that my adoptive mother was not my "real mother". If you demand that pregnancies be carried to term and that those unwilling to be parents give those children to adoption... the adoptive mother is the real mother.

Who the hell is a stranger to determine that?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:10 am 
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Holy shiitake, kfad,that's awful.

similarly, it blows my mind when anti-abortion folks are also anti birth control. I get that their ideology is sex is naughty, except for behbeh making, but really.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:03 pm 
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kfad wrote:
The pro-lifer who told me that my adoptive mother was not my "real mother". If you demand that pregnancies be carried to term and that those unwilling to be parents give those children to adoption... the adoptive mother is the real mother.

Who the hell is a stranger to determine that?


Did you ask if she was your "real mother"? Because that is the only way I could see anr possible relevance ti her rude comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:41 pm 
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linanil wrote:
I hold doors open for people and let others go first on elevator as well. Most people think nothing of it. My husband does it as well. It's not a sex thing but a 'polite' thing for both of us.
Agreed. To my mind, that's just common courtesy at the most basic level. Who wouldn't do that?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
linanil wrote:
I hold doors open for people and let others go first on elevator as well. Most people think nothing of it. My husband does it as well. It's not a sex thing but a 'polite' thing for both of us.
Agreed. To my mind, that's just common courtesy at the most basic level. Who wouldn't do that?


I agree that it's a basic courtesy, but I have totally had guys refuse to walk through a door I am holding. It feels incredibly insulting.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:06 pm 
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ismloveyoubobbybrown wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
linanil wrote:
I hold doors open for people and let others go first on elevator as well. Most people think nothing of it. My husband does it as well. It's not a sex thing but a 'polite' thing for both of us.
Agreed. To my mind, that's just common courtesy at the most basic level. Who wouldn't do that?


I agree that it's a basic courtesy, but I have totally had guys refuse to walk through a door I am holding. It feels incredibly insulting.
That's when you slam it in their face and say, "Sorry, I tried!" (But really. Are they afraid that their testicles will be sucked back up inside their bodies if they walk through a door being held by a - *GASP* - woman? What year is this?)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:19 pm 
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I challenge my own feminism. Since I became involved in the feminist movement I've been feeling much more empowered to saying yes to sex and enjoying it, but I realized the other day while reading Communion by bell hooks that while my partners have totally celebrated that, I've never felt empowered to say no when I wasn't in the mood, I'd have sex anyway. When I said no to certain acts, partners past have called me a prude and I'd do something else to satisfy them as a compromise. But I always acted like getting them off is my job and obligation as a girlfriend.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:53 am 
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One of my friends on facebook has spent the morning posting statuses such as "I was raised to be a good mother.my own daughters have been raised the same way.mothers raise children dads work to support then.work it out", "Dads work to support there family and its a mothers role in life to love and cherish her babies,if god had wanted men to share child care he would have gave men vaginas and breasts instead of muscles and strength to work ." One of the replies to this was "[Child] was up a few times through the night. I'm more than happy to deal with it as [partner] got up early for work. Im the MOTHER".

I am actually astounded. Whilst I've read all the posts in this thread, I've never come across such ridiculous sexist nonsense in real life before.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
I challenge my own feminism. Since I became involved in the feminist movement I've been feeling much more empowered to saying yes to sex and enjoying it, but I realized the other day while reading Communion by bell hooks that while my partners have totally celebrated that, I've never felt empowered to say no when I wasn't in the mood, I'd have sex anyway. When I said no to certain acts, partners past have called me a prude and I'd do something else to satisfy them as a compromise. But I always acted like getting them off is my job and obligation as a girlfriend.

Messy and true. I have a hard time with this too. I'm coming to terms with the fact that "empowered" isn't exactly what I am in that sense. Yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:00 am 
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The European Commission's new campaign to attract young women to STEM careers: Science, it's a girl thing. Seriously, EC?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:16 pm 
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lepelaar wrote:
The European Commission's new campaign to attract young women to STEM careers: Science, it's a girl thing. Seriously, EC?

Haha, yepp! I couldn't even believe what I was watching when I first saw it. This is another good article on the backlash: http://skepchick.org/2012/06/why-pinkif ... than-good/
And this: http://www.themarysue.com/science-its-a ... bad-video/

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:55 pm 
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After I'd put my name tag on at work a male colleagues quipped "Now I can use reading your name tag as an excuse to stare at your boobs!"
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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:18 pm 
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I recently found out that the only male on staff at work makes 10 times what any one else in the office makes. 10 times. This, despite them saying we are all paid the same... across the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:50 pm 
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what.

(my mind honestly isn't processing what you wrote, kfad)

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