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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:32 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
Am I wrong on this? I feel that "intense police presence" at schools tomorrow, specifically elementary schools is going to freak little kids out, not make them feel better.

At my school, I don't think it will bother students too much considering they are used to observing things like drug raids, and we are a magnet for the criminal justice program so we have K9 demos and all sorts of stuff ongoing (yet kids still find it a good idea to smoke crepe in the bathroom adjacent).

But, the little ones? Isn't this going to scare them?

My school district has their own police force. They were sent to schools as a precaution a few years ago. To be honest, the parents were more freaked out. The kids took it in stride.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Nebraskalaska wrote:

I'm not sure why they decided they needed to handcuff him and take him into custody for questioning when all reports indicated he was completely cooperative with the police. I think the police may have been so surprised to find out he was alive they just didn't know what to make of the situation and decided to treat him as a potential second shooter.


People also assumed he was involved because he 'liked' a video game on FB that has gun violence. I am tired of media/people blaming video games for everything when obviously there is so much stuff going on in this story.

I do not understand guns, I do not understand people who are obsessed with guns and I believe we all have certain rights but stockpiling automatic weapons is not one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:12 pm 
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My apologies if this has been discussed already, but these people this happened because we kicked god out of school are really getting on my nerves. Have you seen this all over Facebook & Twitter and such? To my knowledge students are allowed to pray, read religious literature and join religious clubs. How did we "kick god out of school"? Or, do they want us to start teaching creationism? Mandatory Christian classes? Mandatory morning prayers?

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:14 pm 
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One of those is just Westboro and they're just trying to make news. They mostly believe in promoting themselves I suspect.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Currently listening to how it's the liberals fault because lack of god blah blah blah uggggggggh

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:23 pm 
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nickvicious wrote:
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but these people this happened because we kicked god out of school are really getting on my nerves. Have you seen this all over Facebook & Twitter and such? To my knowledge students are allowed to pray, read religious literature and join religious clubs. How did we "kick god out of school"? Or, do they want us to start teaching creationism? Mandatory Christian classes? Mandatory morning prayers?


Well, to be fair, God was always getting in trouble for bullying and cutting classes and smoking in the bathroom.


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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:28 pm 
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And like..what about all the bad stuff that happens in religious schools? We prayed like 19 times a day in my school in 3 different languages and while no one ever shot anyone else at school, it wasn't like nothing bad ever happened. Where was god when that teacher raped that student? Or when that little girl got run over? Or when that one student drank and drove and killed that girl? God was more than welcome, where was he?

I mean I know people believe in god and free will and that's how they justify god being in existence and bad things still happening and that's fine - but don't make it into a "if you loved god, then bad things wouldn't happen" argument because well...it's just not even a good argument for your agenda.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Actually, I think Westboro is claiming gay marriage caused this. Because you know, love is bad?

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:31 pm 
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nickvicious wrote:
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but these people this happened because we kicked god out of school are really getting on my nerves. Have you seen this all over Facebook & Twitter and such? To my knowledge students are allowed to pray, read religious literature and join religious clubs. How did we "kick god out of school"? Or, do they want us to start teaching creationism? Mandatory Christian classes? Mandatory morning prayers?


Yes. Have you see the one about how 20 kids got the best Christmas present ever? Getting to see Jesus? Unforkingbelievable.

There was a mass shooting at a Christian college some years ago. Wonder what the excuse was there?

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:47 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
nickvicious wrote:
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but these people this happened because we kicked god out of school are really getting on my nerves. Have you seen this all over Facebook & Twitter and such? To my knowledge students are allowed to pray, read religious literature and join religious clubs. How did we "kick god out of school"? Or, do they want us to start teaching creationism? Mandatory Christian classes? Mandatory morning prayers?


Yes. Have you see the one about how 20 kids got the best Christmas present ever? Getting to see Jesus? Unforkingbelievable.



wait what?!?!? someone actually said that?!?!
the level of just monster disgusting hatred that comes out of these orgs like Westboro Baptist literally makes me sick to my stomach.

the thing i am stuck on and will never get an adequate answer on is why are civilians allowed to buy semi-automatic weapons??? WHY? what do you use them for?!?!?!?
there is not one shred of me that understands that. i know a few hunters that hunt mainly deer and turkeys and i can tell you none of them have ever even thought of a semi-automatic weapon.

i saw a link on facebook saying the mother was a doomsday prepper and that's why she had a stash of guns including the semi-automatic one. someone was quick to point out the link was from a British tabloid so i have no idea if it's true but im still wondering what she was doing with all those guns. and clearly they werent properly secured.

i cant wrap my head around any of this.
i went to public school in the 80s/90s and i cant remember a single solitary time that i ever felt unsafe. we had no police at my school, no security, i dont even think we had any sort of real sign in system. i think adults/strangers were SUPPOSED to go to the office to sign in but i dont know how enforced that was.
the only safety drill we ever had was a fire drill.
my best friend is a teacher at a high school in Worcester, MA which is the 2nd largest city in New England. she's told me multiple stories about the school being put on lockdown and i just cant comprehend living through that. you dont even know if the threat is in the school or in the surrounding community. i think thankfully the stories she told me usually the threat was OUTSIDE the school but i just dont think i could handle that as part of my job.
the fact that a school anywhere in this country (my town is probably very similar to Newtown, CT) is not safe just blows my mind.
i know there were shootings before Columbine and that VA Tech was technically worse but Columbine just really had an enormous effect on me. whenever these school shootings come up i swear i am haunted by the video surveillance footage from Columbine, like the picture of one of the students trying to climb over some wall. i think it's because Columbine was the first big mass shooting and it sort of tore away any innocence we as a nation had that schools were safe.

i have a lot of friends who have small kids about the age of the Sandy Hook victims that were all having massive panic attacks the day of the shooting wanting to go pick their kids up from school.
i agree though that i think any extra police/security presence might be unsettling to small children. i dont think that age group can understand and it makes school feel unsafe to them.
i dunno. just a thought. id like to say that the odds of a copycat doing the same thing 3 days later is slim to none but how many copycat Batman shooters did the police foil? seems like there were several.

i keep seeing pictures of the first respondes on facebook and i just want to hug them all. i dont think small town police and EMTs are psychologically ready to go pick through the bodies of dead kindergartners. i feel like they are among the victims too and i hope they have adequate resources to deal with their feelings. i wouldnt be surprised if most of them end up having to deal with post-tramautic stress syndrome.

sorry im completely rambling. this whole thing is just so horrifying and i couldnt even watch the President's speech last night because it's all too much.
my heart just aches for everyone that was involved. :-(

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:07 pm 
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nickvicious wrote:
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but these people this happened because we kicked god out of school are really getting on my nerves. Have you seen this all over Facebook & Twitter and such? To my knowledge students are allowed to pray, read religious literature and join religious clubs. How did we "kick god out of school"? Or, do they want us to start teaching creationism? Mandatory Christian classes? Mandatory morning prayers?

Luckily I haven't seen this in my Facebook feed, but I'm aware of people saying it. It makes me forking sick. Particularly the kind of thing LW is talking about; the idea that these kids are "getting to go see God."

A couple of my second graders were talking about the shooting this morning. They really don't understand it, of course, but they're scared. There were cops outside the school when we walked them over and one of kids asked me if the shooter was really dead.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Lisa,

I think our times were different, vastly. I mean my high school often had knife fights between kids and there were stray bullets from the neighborhood (a wall was put up to stop them) but still, I don't think I really ever felt unsafe. We had security guards but they weren't armed and they weren't cops.

I remember going to show my husband my elementary school that was a fairly open elementary school but now it is a fortress. We couldn't get in on the weekend to just look around but I remember playing there on weekends when I was young. I know there is a nearby park but still.

I don't think extra police force helps because it seems just to be taken police away from patrolling other areas. If I was a criminal, I'd think today would be a great day to do some stuff away from a school because police are focused on the schools.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:31 pm 
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yeah i really wonder if the little kids can understand.
like what about the other kids that go to that school?? how do you explain to them what happened?
really really tough stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:34 pm 
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The lockdown thing is likely a result of the increased attention that shootings have brought. I've been at an elementary school when it was on lockdown and the parents on campus freaked out much more than the kids did. The kids just followed the instructions and waited to be told when they could leave. The teachers were calm and in control.

A mother actually induced a panic attack in her daughter by crying hysterically and trying to drag the girl into a bathroom, away from her friends. The worst part is that they don't tell you what the reason is; it could be a drive-by shooting a mile away or a domestic violence shooting next door.

If you haven't read Columbine by Dave Cullen, you should. He spent 10 years on it and it really does a good job of separating myth from fact.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
The worst part is that they don't tell you what the reason is; it could be a drive-by shooting a mile away or a domestic violence shooting next door.

.


i think that was the part that bothered me the most about my friend's stories.
the school gets put on lockdown, the teachers huddle all the kids into a corner behind a table, and tries their best to shield them and they have no idea if the threat is inside the building or miles away.

it's just scary.

i dont know a better solution i just think that sounds horrifying to go through.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:43 pm 
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We had regular lockdowns and at first (right after columbine) they were a huge deal where we all got really scared - but followed direction. And then they weren't a big deal as much any more, but we had never had a gunman come in and shoot our peers. I can imagine that the kids that survived a shooting have a different reaction to lockdowns from those that haven't experienced that. Will it whip kids into a frenzy to lock the doors, turn out the lights and tell them to hide under their desks? Yeah, of course. Can you just opt out and hope you never have to do that? Obviously not.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:52 pm 
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ive never lived through a lockdown and it sounds absolutely terrifying.
i graduated high school in 1996 so when Columbine happened in April 99 i was about a year away from graduating college. i went to a teeny tiny catholic all women's college near Boston and i dont think the idea of lockdown was ever thought of there.

i feel very grateful to not have gone through that but at 5 months pregnant im terrified of the world im bringing a child into.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:01 pm 
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I grew up in a fairly safe, rural area, and we always had a police liaison who you often saw wandering around school. Our school district did lockdown drills regularly post-Columbine. They weren't in response to just anything, though, they were specifically drills for if we had someone unwanted enter the school (You have to be buzzed in by the office during the school day). They said a few code words over the intercom and we all turned of lights and hid. We never had a real lockdown, but we did have a few bomb threats (always completely fake but taken to be true just in case). We are so thoroughly trained to just be obedient to school authorities. I don't remember any of us thinking much of it all.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:03 pm 
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nickvicious wrote:
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but these people this happened because we kicked god out of school are really getting on my nerves. Have you seen this all over Facebook & Twitter and such? To my knowledge students are allowed to pray, read religious literature and join religious clubs. How did we "kick god out of school"? Or, do they want us to start teaching creationism? Mandatory Christian classes? Mandatory morning prayers?

Don't even get me forking started. Some people seem to think anything you post is hunky dory as long as it is in a picture and not their own words. One crasshole I tried to reason with was whining because teachers can't say Merry Christmas or whatever and when I said it had nothing to do with the shooting she tried to defend herself by saying she didn't create the thing she posted, she just shared it. what the fizzle kind of defense is that?

Another was apologetic and deleted it.. and then said she deleted it because it was "misinterpreted." Um, no, maybe you regret saying it, or you didn't say what you meant to say, but I damn well know how to read.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:29 pm 
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b.vicious wrote:
nickvicious wrote:
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but these people this happened because we kicked god out of school are really getting on my nerves. Have you seen this all over Facebook & Twitter and such? To my knowledge students are allowed to pray, read religious literature and join religious clubs. How did we "kick god out of school"? Or, do they want us to start teaching creationism? Mandatory Christian classes? Mandatory morning prayers?

Don't even get me forking started. Some people seem to think anything you post is hunky dory as long as it is in a picture and not their own words. One crasshole I tried to reason with was whining because teachers can't say Merry Christmas or whatever and when I said it had nothing to do with the shooting she tried to defend herself by saying she didn't create the thing she posted, she just shared it. what the fizzle kind of defense is that?

Another was apologetic and deleted it.. and then said she deleted it because it was "misinterpreted." Um, no, maybe you regret saying it, or you didn't say what you meant to say, but I damn well know how to read.

They must not be thinking before they hit the "share" button. When you say "put God in school" to me that sounds like Sharia law. And I don't know too many Christians that are fond of that.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:29 pm 
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ismloveyoubobbybrown wrote:
They said a few code words over the intercom and we all turned of lights and hid.


I still remember our code! "The office is closed. The office is closed. The office is closed." It was always a running joke among students that we were so lucky we were shielded from fear by that concrete code no one could ever decipher that rang over the intercom before every single lockdown.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
If you haven't read Columbine by Dave Cullen, you should. He spent 10 years on it and it really does a good job of separating myth from fact.


+1

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:28 pm 
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We've had a few lockdowns this yeah and last year but not for anything super serious. One was a drug bust, which, considering the school I graduated from was rich kid LSD central, was nothing at all, just idiots with pot. (seriously kiddos--smoke your pot somewhere other than the bathroom across from the ROTC hall that has visiting K9 dogs a few times a month).

Another was because one of my best students, who apparently was a mess everywhere else (A in my class; sweet, polite kid) decided to rob a kid at lunch by knife point, so they locked down the school looking for him. He was 3 weeks short of graduating and of course was expelled.

Another was an armed robber in the area. He was just running from the police. We were pretty sure a fugitive wouldn't be dumb enough to go into a locked down school.

Sadly, this stuff is common.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:47 pm 
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I've not been following the news. I just can't deal with it. I lived through Dunblane and it still gives me the breakdowns when anything even slightly similar comes up.

Lockdowns? That they exist speaks volumes.

How is it even a thing?HOW?!

I also don't understand how America supposedly separates church and state when it really really REALLY doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:48 pm 
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interrobang?! wrote:

Lockdowns? That they exist speaks volumes.

How is it even a thing?HOW?!

.


this is how i feel about it. like it's just nuts it even has to exist.

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