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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:44 pm 
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I have never discussed honey with anyone except vegans.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
I have never discussed honey with anyone except vegans.

Yeah, me too. The only time I see it coming up in a general convo for me is, say, I'm helping someone covert a recipe with honey in it and if they want to call it strictly vegan, then I'll tell them that they shouldn't include honey type thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
I have never discussed honey with anyone except vegans.

I don't sit and discuss it with people. The most recent time it came up me and my boyfriend were in the shop next to some Tobelerone, so he was going on about how much he loves it. I said how my brother had recently been given a bar each of milk, white and dark Tobelerone. He tried to give me a bit of the dark one but it had eggs AND milk AND honey in it, ha ha. (I don't know why but for some reason it was funny that it had multiple no-eats in.)
He was very surprised to realise I don't eat honey. I suppose I should have realised there might be a reaction before bringing up the story, as it wasn't necessary.

And someone else asked if I eat honey because she wanted the option of getting her dad to bake soda bread (he lives in another city) and her bring it over and share it with me. In context, it seemed rather odd that she would want to do that at all.

Normally it's not a problem, I just felt at a loss for what to say on the few occasions it does come up.


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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:24 pm 
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So back when I first started college, I was dating this girl-- she was really cute and I liked her a lot, but one weekend I was out of town, and when I came back, she'd dumped me! For a bee! And he KNEW she was dating me! He was my BEST FRIEND! We never spoke again.

So yeah, fork those guys. They took my honey, I take their honey.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:42 am 
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The main concern honey brings up to me is the possibility that the bee keepers may take too much and not leave enough for the bees to eat to survive the winter, making the already fragile bee population decline. There are farmers at the farmer's market here who my boyfriend who is vegetarian, recently bought some honey from, and wanted to know how I, as a vegan, felt about eating it. To be honest, I am on the fence, and I don't have any good reason why I don't want to eat that particular honey, knowing it has no lead in it, and is from bees which have been surviving many winters prior in this colony. Good to hear from some of you on the issue, though I still only have the reason that it isn't technically vegan to go with not eating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:32 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
So back when I first started college, I was dating this girl-- she was really cute and I liked her a lot, but one weekend I was out of town, and when I came back, she'd dumped me! For a bee! And he KNEW she was dating me! He was my BEST FRIEND! We never spoke again.

So yeah, fork those guys. They took my honey, I take their honey.

I'm worried about all these unresolved issues you have with bees. Maybe you could just sit down and talk civilly about it? Don't bring any licorice.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:52 pm 
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And then there was the time when the bees were massing on my eastern border-- I was really worried about this, so I built an elaborate series of defenses along the eastern edge of my yard to keep them out. And then they went and invaded through Belgium my neighbor's yard and I was forced to surrender anyway. :(

It was YEARS before I got the bees out of my yard, and in the process my house was destroyed. I only got rid of them with the help of some neighbors and friends from out-of-town, although the guinea pigs spent a lot of time harassing the bees and trying to force them out of their piggy house.

I still don't REALLY trust bees, even though it's been decades and they spent most of that time forbidden to sting anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:56 am 
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solipsistnation wrote:
And then there was the time when the bees were massing on my eastern border-- I was really worried about this, so I built an elaborate series of defenses along the eastern edge of my yard to keep them out. And then they went and invaded through Belgium my neighbor's yard and I was forced to surrender anyway. :(

It was YEARS before I got the bees out of my yard, and in the process my house was destroyed. I only got rid of them with the help of some neighbors and friends from out-of-town, although the guinea pigs spent a lot of time harassing the bees and trying to force them out of their piggy house.

I still don't REALLY trust bees, even though it's been decades and they spent most of that time forbidden to sting anyone.

I thought relations have been better since you two created the YU (yard union)?

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:41 pm 
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vegetalion wrote:
I thought relations have been better since you two created the YU (yard union)?


They keep sending over bees disguised as flies, or trying to pay off the guinea pigs to tell them what we're doing...

So basically I don't eat honey because I suspect it's tainted with polonium. And communism.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:17 am 
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ndpittman wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
ndpittman wrote:
Off topic: What about food that's fried in the same oil? Like french fries in a restaurant that also has chicken fingers or whatever?


That doesn't bother me, I don't think chicken particles are going to glom onto my fries. It seems to me like if you think that is a problem, you probably shouldn't eat at places that serve meat at all.


I just hate it when my husband says stuff like, "That's not really vegan." I'm I'll just grow a pair and tell him to shut the fork up. Sometimes I just really want some fries!


If my husband would fry up a steak and I'd use the same pan and same oil with yukky blood/meat bits in it to fry my tofu, I'm not sure I could eat it. But on the other hand, in the above scenario, yep, I would eat it. The food I ordered doesnt increase the demand for meat/animal products, so I'm ok with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:47 am 
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One of the things that caused such an uproar a few years ago about colony collapse disorder (CCD) was that industrial-scale agriculture/monoculture could not continue without a healthy bee population that didn’t just ‘disappear’ w/o leaving any carcasses behind. (Whereupon the statistic that one out of three bites of food came from the work of bees. And I imagine the stat would be greater if it looked at those of us eating plant-based diets.)

Now, I’m not saying I’m pro-monoculture (far from it), but I am saying that (currently) there are not enough native pollinators (yes, because of human modification of the environment) to produce all of our plant products, so bees are going to have to be used as part of the agricultural process.

If you don’t want to take their honey, then fine don’t eat it, but using smoke to check up on their health is going to be a necessity. If you’re afraid of bees, then fine run away like a previous-sting-victim, but don’t kill them (and try not to kill other insects), as we need them to serve their ecological function(s).

I personally consider human-bee interaction a symbiotic relationship, one that might need to be tweaked so as to be kinder to the bees (e.g. local beekeepers service local fields, offering bees diverse plant breeds for better nutrition), but nonetheless a relationship of necessity.

Maybe all this makes me sound like a “happy meat” person, but in this case I don’t really give a fork. Eat some sorghum syrup and shut up w/the absolutism.


Also, didn’t someone post a nature video a while back about how certain species of wasp willingly goes inside fig tree blossoms and then never comes back out except as fig fruit?
Is that analogous to this situation? Or does the fact that it happens without human encouragement render it inapplicable?

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:05 am 
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I basically avoid honey just because it's not technically vegan, but it doesn't bother me too much. I know in developing countries bees are basically kept in cramped and filthy conditions and it spreads diseases and all sorts of nasties (especially in places like China and India). I guess living in New Zealand it's harder to have a strong argument against it because bees are basically revered as a natural resource and you see wild hives everywhere (rangitoto island is basically one big bee hive) that are also used for commercial honey production. I have on occasion taken a spoonful of honey from the work honey stash when my blood sugar crashed. It tastes a bit like feet to me so I don't like it much (I don't really know what feet taste like). Beeswax is seemingly harder to avoid, that stuff is in every lip balm on the market, or so it seems.

Agave is more delicious. If only they used that as a sweetener in everything instead of feety honey.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:17 pm 
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miss snackura wrote:
Agave is more delicious. If only they used that as a sweetener in everything instead of feety honey.


Exactly. I, personally, could care less about bees (anthropocentric? Possibly, but meh). But I don't eat honey just because there are other sweetening options that I care more about. But I'm not freaking out if someone offers me a honey-grahm cracker.

I have discussed this with non-vegan a few times. Not really to any extent (because it usually just is part of the list of things someone is trying to find inconsistency with. "Do you wear leather? What about your shoes?" "Do you eat honey? Bees are animals." Blech.) My usual response is something like, "that is sort of up in the air depending on what vegan you talk to. For me, there are bigger issues that I see worth devoting more time and effort to, which may seem inconsistent. But I'd rather be inconsistently caring about something that consistently caring about nothing." That usually gets them to stop badgering me.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:29 pm 
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I think it's an animal product and all the info already mentioned about how bees are exploited (treated badly, monoculture, etc.) both have led me to avoid honey. I too like agave nectar or maple syrup (depending on the use) at least as good anyway. I know that insects are killed in the production of all sorts of plant/grain crops and that bees (even trucked-in bees) may be used to pollinate the foods I eat, but I see eating honey as worse since it is unnecessary (can't say that for all foods pollinated by bees or that has a "part in" insect deaths) and really supposed to be bee food--so more obviously superfluous and exploitive.

As far as eating stuff from shared fryers, I hadn't thought about it much until recently. The last two times I went to my favorite Thai restaurant and had a dish (each time) containing fried tofu, there were a couple of small chicken chunks in with it...YUCK! I think it's time to go back to steamed tofu!

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Whovian wrote:
As far as eating stuff from shared fryers, I hadn't thought about it much until recently. The last two times I went to my favorite Thai restaurant and had a dish (each time) containing fried tofu, there were a couple of small chicken chunks in with it...YUCK! I think it's time to go back to steamed tofu!


I'm kind of surprised by how many people mention this-- I can usually tell when the fryer was shared by the startling tummy issues I get later. Fat melts and floats out into the oil in which the stuff is frying and then you're frying in a sort of mix of chicken (or whatever) fat and chicken bits and whatever oil it was originally... Overall I try to avoid it.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:40 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
I'm kind of surprised by how many people mention this-- I can usually tell when the fryer was shared by the startling tummy issues I get later. Fat melts and floats out into the oil in which the stuff is frying and then you're frying in a sort of mix of chicken (or whatever) fat and chicken bits and whatever oil it was originally... Overall I try to avoid it.

Well, I guess it's because that's the only place I get anything I'm not sure about. I don't usually get french fries or other things that are fried at restaurants. But now that you mention it, the first time there was a chicken chunk, later that night my stomach felt funky...the second time it didn't though. (The sauce was different in each dish though.)

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:51 pm 
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I didn't avoid honey for the longest time, I accepted it if came along. Then, Hugo's opened in my neighborhood, and their honey chipotle is soooooooooooo good.

But then I heard about an "ethical" honey company that is real careful about how they handle bees, and I figured, that's got to mean that most honey companies don't concern themselves with it. I'd rather err on the side of denying myself some honey than contributing to unethical practices.

When omnis ask me, I tell them that some vegans do and some vegans don't, but that I decided it seemed more consistent with my beliefs to not consume honey.

(It helps that, besides that honey chipotle, I really wasn't getting products with honey in them anyway... I still miss that salsa, though!)


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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:39 pm 
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And then there was the time when I was maybe ten years old and a bee landed on my neck and veeeery slowly walked up my face to my forehead, stopping for a REALLY LONG TIME on my eyelid while I tried very hard not to consider how unbelievably awful it would be to be stung on the eyeball and held VERY VERY STILL. Seriously, it felt like about 45 minutes of total unbreathing immobility while this bee wandered around my face.

This one actually happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:19 am 
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The other ones didn't happen?

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:11 am 
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IsaChandra wrote:
The other ones didn't happen?

I too am shocked.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:57 am 
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Oh, what a giveaway.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:10 am 
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IsaChandra wrote:
I only stopped eating honey when people would yell at me because honey isn't vegan. Honestly, I avoid subjects like honey and bone char when talking to non-vegans. So much more animal products go into the making of a mass produced vegetable, organic or not, (including animal bones) that the bone char thing starts bordering on ridiculous. I don't want veganism to start sounding ridiculous, and it doesn't matter to the animal whether or not thie biproducts were directly or indirectly involved in the making of a piece of food.

So I'll just say "Some vegans avoid honey because [any of the reasons listed here]." Personally, I think that the reasons for avoiding honey are just as valid a reason for avoiding almonds or oranges or apples, which I don't. But I also don't want to argue with vegans endlessly about veganism, so I don't eat it. And yes, sometimes these things do start seeming like mindless rules, but when I think about the overall issue and what is happening to animals every second, I don't mind following a few of them to keep the peace.


This sums me up too.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:54 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
ndpittman wrote:
Off topic: What about food that's fried in the same oil? Like french fries in a restaurant that also has chicken fingers or whatever?


That doesn't bother me, I don't think chicken particles are going to glom onto my fries. It seems to me like if you think that is a problem, you probably shouldn't eat at places that serve meat at all.


When this happens, I can sometimes taste the meat-stuff. Like, if they haven't changed the oil in awhile, I get a tummy ache. I usually just don't order things fried in oil unless I really, really want it.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:59 pm 
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just mumbles wrote:
My brother had a beehive in Ithaca, and a bear destroyed it.

He has a new beehive now, but this one has hurtful anti-bear epithets scrawled all over it.

And that's why I don't eat honey.


I'm sigging this. <333

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My brother had a beehive in Ithaca, and a bear destroyed it.
He has a new beehive now, but this one has hurtful anti-bear epithets scrawled all over it.
And that's why I don't eat honey.

- just mumbles

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 Post subject: Re: Honey- how to explain to omnis why we don't eat it?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:03 pm 
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I really love bees though. Even though they fly in my face, and chase me, and sting my butt, I can't help it. It's a twisted love.

I like watching them fly around and pollinate the flowers. They're friggin cute.

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My brother had a beehive in Ithaca, and a bear destroyed it.
He has a new beehive now, but this one has hurtful anti-bear epithets scrawled all over it.
And that's why I don't eat honey.

- just mumbles

Twitter: TheSpinachGirl
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