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 Post subject: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:42 pm 
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This has been on my mind for like two days and I really just need to ask now. My friend is a nursing student at a different school than me and two days ago she told me that they'd learned in class - from their teacher who is a nurse in an ER in the city she lives in - that the difference between rape and sexual assault is ejaculation. Maybe it's something in the air, but a few towns over I was learning in one of my sociology classes that the difference between rape and sexual assault is penetration. So my immediate reaction to what she said was "wrong!" but then I thought, maybe for the sake of argument lets pretend I don't know everything ever.

Have you ever heard that? It implies some pretty huge things and if it's true, my world may spin on its axis and implode. But I looked a few places online and couldn't find anything that backed the nurse's definition up. My friend said maybe legally it's different, but I feel like I would know that if it were true. Is it true? Is it kind of true? Is it not troubling that a nurse who is teaching people and works in an ER herself thinks that if it's not true? I know I'm troubled.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:44 pm 
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I was under the impression that rape was a type of sexual assault involving penetration. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares kind of thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:46 pm 
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sfwar.org wrote:
What is sexual assault?
sexual assault is a broad term and includes any sexual activity that is forced on a person. The force used during a sexual assault can be physical, but it can also include the use of threats, pressure, fear, manipulation, and/or drugs and alcohol. sexual assault does not always include penetration. If something has happened to you that you feel uncomfortable about, you may want to talk to a friend or call a crisis line.

What is rape?
rape is a specifi c type of sexual assault. It occurs when any person is forced to have sex. A person does not have to be beat-up to have been raped or sexually assaulted. A person can be assaulted if they are too drunk to say yes or consent to sexual activity. It is against the law to force any person—whether they are a date, partner, spouse, child, relative, student, church member, friend, or a stranger—into
any sexual activity they do not want.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:57 pm 
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I'm...still confused. Although I do appreciate that they clarified that I can't even sexually assault my church members.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:58 pm 
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I have never heard that before. I don't like that definition because it basically says that rape can only be perpetrated with a penis.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:59 pm 
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I have never heard that definition of rape, and I was trained as a sexual assault survivor advocate 5 years ago. However, it is true that different states/cities/localities define rape differently in law -- for instance, in some places, rape is specifically defined as an act perpetrated by a man against a woman, so a different combination of genders would mean that in that area the exact same act could not be legally defined as "rape". So I could imagine it being possible that some locality has it in law that rape is defined by ejaculation. I could also imagine it being possible that someone received plausible-sounding misinformation about the law in their locality and has continued passing it on as if it were true.

In any case, it's often important to distinguish between the legal definition of rape (which changes depending on where the rape occurred) and the "real world" definition of rape (which ultimately is up to the person against whom it was perpetuated).

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Medically, I never hear the word "rape" used in a medical record. Unless they're directly quoting the victim. Medically, any violation is always characterized as "sexual assault" for the record regardless of penetration status, manner/nature of assault, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:01 pm 
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choirqueer wrote:
In any case, it's often important to distinguish between the legal definition of rape (which changes depending on where the rape occurred) and the "real world" definition of rape (which ultimately is up to the person against whom it was perpetuated).


This is true. Most of the US (legally) even goes so far as to specify penis in vagina, not just man/woman.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:17 pm 
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choirqueer wrote:
I could also imagine it being possible that someone received plausible-sounding misinformation about the law in their locality and has continued passing it on as if it were true.



I'm just going to believe this is what happened since I feel like I know Louisiana rape law better than I know myself, and while there's some questionable shiitake in there, I've never seen anything about ejaculate being included in any kind of definition ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:31 pm 
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Most rapists don't ejaculate, or find it incredibly difficult to. That's a really odd definition.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:37 am 
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mel c wrote:
choirqueer wrote:
In any case, it's often important to distinguish between the legal definition of rape (which changes depending on where the rape occurred) and the "real world" definition of rape (which ultimately is up to the person against whom it was perpetuated).


This is true. Most of the US (legally) even goes so far as to specify penis in vagina, not just man/woman.


Yeah, in Texas rape can only be male on female penis in vagina. Which is pretty forked up.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:10 pm 
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Well, it ain't real sex until a man comes, so.....


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:36 pm 
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mel c wrote:
I was under the impression that rape was a type of sexual assault involving penetration. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares kind of thing.


Yeah, this.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:42 am 
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I remember my boyfriend learning something on his politics course over here, which meant that only a man could be convicted of rape, as there needed to be penetration involved. Not that this really helps, I just found it a little bizarre that even if a woman penetrated a man with...whatever, it would be defined differently.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:48 pm 
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i have never been able to discern between sexual assault and rape; i don't see why there has to be a difference, it should all be considered rape

adding onto what bigpinkjellybean said, this definition of rape including penetration and/or ejaculation implies that women are incapable of committing rape.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:58 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
Most rapists don't ejaculate, or find it incredibly difficult to. That's a really odd definition.

really?


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:01 pm 
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When I first heard that I kind of thought that in the back of my head but I'd never heard it anywhere and just assumed it. It makes sense, though, since a lot of rapists are drunk/stoned when they do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Here it's all covered under criminal sexual conduct and the degree (5th up to 1st) is based on various factors: type of contact, differences in age, force, coercion, position of authority or relationship and a few more factors. We can charge any type regardless of gender.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:08 pm 
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That's bizarre and bullshiitake. I thought I read or heard once that digital and foreign object penetration can be considered rape? Guess it must differ by state/jurisdiction.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:41 am 
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I would have thought that is was penetration, too. I don't see what ejaculation has to do with it, except in terms of evidence or whether the victim might be pregnant.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Bizarre. I've never heard that either. And it's being taught in a class? Man.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you ever heard this definition of rape?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:58 am 
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Adah wrote:
Shy Mox wrote:
Most rapists don't ejaculate, or find it incredibly difficult to. That's a really odd definition.

really?


I read it in Rape: Sex, Violence History by Joanna Burke, but online sources seem to be putting it all over the place, from 34%-50% of victims reporting sexual dysfunction in their assailants, I donated the book to my school but I can take a look at it Friday afternoon to double check what her number was, I think the study she quoted wasn't based on victim testimony.

bigpinkjellybean wrote:
I remember my boyfriend learning something on his politics course over here, which meant that only a man could be convicted of rape, as there needed to be penetration involved. Not that this really helps, I just found it a little bizarre that even if a woman penetrated a man with...whatever, it would be defined differently.


Yeah that was mentioned in the book too, in UK law if a woman raped a man, she'd be more likely to be charged with lewd conduct or some such bullshiitake like that.

semiautomatic wrote:
i have never been able to discern between sexual assault and rape; i don't see why there has to be a difference, it should all be considered rape

adding onto what bigpinkjellybean said, this definition of rape including penetration and/or ejaculation implies that women are incapable of committing rape.


Sexual assault can be any sexual contact that was made without consent, it includes rape but it also includes things like groping. Here in Canada you get charged by the degree of sexual assault, with rape being the highest degree, although they do not use the term "rape" anymore. Which pissed me off when they first announced that but they seem to hope that it'll be easier to prosecute rapists now, since jurors might be uncomfortable with the term "rape" even if they can agree it was sexual assault.

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