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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:32 pm 
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It sucks all around, it's true. But it's not different from any other punishment that harms innocent people. We send parents to prison, we fine employers even though that can affect blameless employees, and the third example that really drives my point home.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Ha! The idea that anything in life is fair. I think those sorts of comments come no matter what. If they haven't seen the point by now, they're not going to find it. They are damn lucky the entire football program was not suspended for a year or more.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:08 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
Ha! The idea that anything in life is fair. I think those sorts of comments come no matter what. If they haven't seen the point by now, they're not going to find it. They are damn lucky the entire football program was not suspended for a year or more.


I suspect this could be because the NCAA realized the ripple effect that would have on the economy of the whole area. The population of the town increases by about 20% on football weekends, and all those people stay at hotels and eat at restaurants and shop at stores and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:23 pm 
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That's a great point. Game weekends are a huge boon to all the small businesses in Blacksburg. It would be disastrous for them if something happened to VTs football season. I suppose this is true in most of the big team college towns.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:52 pm 
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I can't find it now but there's a tweet going around to the effect of "those who don't like the sanctions can just look the other way and pretend its not happening."

Well I thought it was a good burn.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:56 pm 
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I completely agree with vacating the wins. I have no issue with that and can't imagine how anyone can argue otherwise. The rest of it.. well, I can see both sides.

There needs to be punishment, obviously. What happened was reprehensible and I don't think anyone is denying that. But who exactly is being punished here? Sandusky is in prison. Joe Paterno is dead. Schultz, Curley and Spanier are no longer here. That's just about everyone (with one exception) who was in a position to know about the allegations. I'm happy that the fine is going to help victims, but I felt like there were more effective ways it could have been done - like a flat percentage of football revenue for a decade doing the same thing. The thing about the scholarships incenses me. Penn State (at least as of last year, but I don't imagine it's changed) has the highest in-state tuition of any public school in the nation. It's not cheap to go here. Fine, the kids can go to another school, but it's not like those scholarships get redistributed, they're just gone. So kid A doesn't go to Penn State because he doesn't get a scholarship here and goes to Florida or Texas or wherever else instead and gets one there. But because he took that scholarship, now there isn't one available for kid B who wanted to go to the same school. Somewhere, someone is losing out on scholarship money because those scholarships went away. Yeah, it sucks for our program, but it sucks even more for those 40 kids who now don't get any scholarship money at all. That's the punishment I take issue with. People within the administration of Penn State didn't have the best interest of children in mind when they failed to take action against Sandusky. But how does making college less affordable for those students losing out on scholarships have their best interest at heart? I'm not equating the two - obviously what happened to Sandusky's victims is on a whole other level than having to take out student loans, but it's still a point that maybe should have been considered.

I'm amazed that no one is talking about Tom Corbett's role in all of this. As the Attorney General, he knew about the investigation into Sandusky. You can make the argument that he didn't pursue that issue as much as he should have while he was AG, knowing that he was making the run for governor and didn't want to risk alienating Penn State alumni and fans. As governor, he has a place on the Board of Trustees and apparently didn't inform them of any ongoing investigation into the program. If we're so intent on dishing out blame, he deserves more than a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:06 am 
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Larisa wrote:
pandacookie wrote:
Ha! The idea that anything in life is fair. I think those sorts of comments come no matter what. If they haven't seen the point by now, they're not going to find it. They are damn lucky the entire football program was not suspended for a year or more.


I suspect this could be because the NCAA realized the ripple effect that would have on the economy of the whole area. The population of the town increases by about 20% on football weekends, and all those people stay at hotels and eat at restaurants and shop at stores and so on.


I read an economic impact study of Penn State football on the local and state economy. It was pretty impressive (caveat being it was a commissioned study by the university and not totally objective) and listed the number of jobs related to the football program and all of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:18 am 
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There was also a This American Life episode about the impact Penn State has on the community and the people who live nearby. Here you go:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... rty-school

Penn State is the #1 party school in the country. People who live nearby endure students roaming the streets drunk, stealing signs, pissing in their yards, and worse. If this is what college sports mean, they can go to hell. I'm not surprised what was at the center of this nightmare. The place is sick on a massive scale. So some kids don't get to go to Penn State? Good. They can have a better life somewhere else. You don't go to Penn State for the academics.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:06 am 
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gwenc02 wrote:
I completely agree with vacating the wins. I have no issue with that and can't imagine how anyone can argue otherwise. The rest of it.. well, I can see both sides.

There needs to be punishment, obviously. What happened was reprehensible and I don't think anyone is denying that. But who exactly is being punished here? Sandusky is in prison. Joe Paterno is dead. Schultz, Curley and Spanier are no longer here. That's just about everyone (with one exception) who was in a position to know about the allegations. I'm happy that the fine is going to help victims, but I felt like there were more effective ways it could have been done - like a flat percentage of football revenue for a decade doing the same thing. The thing about the scholarships incenses me. Penn State (at least as of last year, but I don't imagine it's changed) has the highest in-state tuition of any public school in the nation. It's not cheap to go here. Fine, the kids can go to another school, but it's not like those scholarships get redistributed, they're just gone. So kid A doesn't go to Penn State because he doesn't get a scholarship here and goes to Florida or Texas or wherever else instead and gets one there. But because he took that scholarship, now there isn't one available for kid B who wanted to go to the same school. Somewhere, someone is losing out on scholarship money because those scholarships went away. Yeah, it sucks for our program, but it sucks even more for those 40 kids who now don't get any scholarship money at all. That's the punishment I take issue with. People within the administration of Penn State didn't have the best interest of children in mind when they failed to take action against Sandusky. But how does making college less affordable for those students losing out on scholarships have their best interest at heart? I'm not equating the two - obviously what happened to Sandusky's victims is on a whole other level than having to take out student loans, but it's still a point that maybe should have been considered.

I'm amazed that no one is talking about Tom Corbett's role in all of this. As the Attorney General, he knew about the investigation into Sandusky. You can make the argument that he didn't pursue that issue as much as he should have while he was AG, knowing that he was making the run for governor and didn't want to risk alienating Penn State alumni and fans. As governor, he has a place on the Board of Trustees and apparently didn't inform them of any ongoing investigation into the program. If we're so intent on dishing out blame, he deserves more than a bit.

The school is being punished not only because an adult man raped children in it's locker room but because there was a culture on the campus that made football more important than stopping that from happening again. I think the language that the NCAA used was "a lack of oversight." There is no way that a football coach should have been able to influence whether or not police were called when it was obvious that Sandusky was a child rapist.
It's entirely appropriate that the football program be punished in such a way that it loses it's power on the campus. The point of the scholarships being removed is in part to remove the power that the program has. I would presume there are other financial assistance programs if someone really wants to get an education at Penn State without the big time football.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:52 am 
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solipsistnation wrote:
. You don't go to Penn State for the academics.


A friend of mine's son went to Penn State, loved the education he got there and is now in med school. I don't think its fair to tar every single student who goes there with the brush of not being there for the academics. And for many PA residents, with in-state tuition, this is an affordable option for a great education.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:32 am 
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solipsistnation wrote:
There was also a This American Life episode about the impact Penn State has on the community and the people who live nearby. Here you go:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... rty-school

Penn State is the #1 party school in the country. People who live nearby endure students roaming the streets drunk, stealing signs, pissing in their yards, and worse. If this is what college sports mean, they can go to hell. I'm not surprised what was at the center of this nightmare. The place is sick on a massive scale. So some kids don't get to go to Penn State? Good. They can have a better life somewhere else. You don't go to Penn State for the academics.


I completely agree with you. Listening to that This American Life episode completely informed my view of what things are like at Penn State so when all this came out it wasn't even that surprising. The problem is a lot bigger than just the people involved directly in this terrible scandal. They value football above everything to such an extent that it hardly even seems like an academic institution.

I think that is what is so great about the punishment; it is an attempt to completely change the culture of that twisted University that has it's priorities all wrong. I'm just shocked that the NCAA is strong enough to stand up against such a corrupt entity.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:07 am 
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I am very conflicted by this. I have many family members that went to Penn State including my grandfather who knew Sandusky for many years through raising money for the University and his charity. Believe me he was stunned and is heartbroken over this entire scandal.

These two points I agree with completely. The attorney general decided not to prosecute years ago. I just don't see how he could put his career aspirations and conflict of interest ahead of his duty of his position. It might be wrong of me, but I think somebody in that position should be blamed even more than others for not following up on possible sexual misconduct with kids.

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gwenc02 wrote:
I'm amazed that no one is talking about Tom Corbett's role in all of this. As the Attorney General, he knew about the investigation into Sandusky. You can make the argument that he didn't pursue that issue as much as he should have while he was AG, knowing that he was making the run for governor and didn't want to risk alienating Penn State alumni and fans. As governor, he has a place on the Board of Trustees and apparently didn't inform them of any ongoing investigation into the program. If we're so intent on dishing out blame, he deserves more than a bit.


The school is being punished not only because an adult man raped children in it's locker room but because there was a culture on the campus that made football more important than stopping that from happening again. I think the language that the NCAA used was "a lack of oversight." There is no way that a football coach should have been able to influence whether or not police were called when it was obvious that Sandusky was a child rapist.
It's entirely appropriate that the football program be punished in such a way that it loses it's power on the campus. The point of the scholarships being removed is in part to remove the power that the program has. I would presume there are other financial assistance programs if someone really wants to get an education at Penn State without the big time football.


The NCAA wanted to send a message that if you put sports over doing what is right, you will have consequences. It is quite a precedent to set for any other school that covers things up. I also think it's a good one to set because sports shouldn't be the most important thing at colleges. Oh and I believe the money was set based on a calculation of how much the football program profits each year.

I also wonder what would be happening if Paterno was still alive. All the emails are other people saying what Paterno said, but since he is dead he isn't able to answer to those allegations. He was notorious for not using technology himself, so who knows if he ever saw any of those emails. There is still debate as to whether McQuery told him actual details or that they were "horsing around". Remember in that generation guys often showered together and even did some sports together naked so "horsing around" might not have seemed a big deal. (even my dad said his swim lessons at the Y were conducted without suits when he was little) Obviously if he heard details there is no excuse for not reporting and following through with it. Nobody knows which it was though. He had a lot of integrity with everything else in his life-or so it seemed. Was this scandal the opposite of that? Were all the good things he did for the University over the years his way of alleviating his guilt for covering this up? No idea. I hope those involved are telling the truth now, but they could also be making themselves look better and giving a bit more blame to the one that isn't around to defend himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:16 am 
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I just want to add that not all big sports schools have a culture that encourages disgraceful behavior in the community. That crepe does not happen at VT. Sure, maybe a little extra rowdiness from a few people, but they are dealt with. It isn't tolerated. Granted VT is not a big party school, but football is king in Blacksburg.

Actually, some schools that are notorious for bad behavior (cough WV cough) are really scorned there and the school/students/town don't tolerate crepe from the obnoxious visitors.

It really is a school culture thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:47 pm 
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The "biggest party school" thing is a ridiculous label -- there are probably at least 30 schools who have been called biggest party school" by somebody. (I remember, my freshman year of college, I went home and saw my high school friends, and just about every one of us could hold up some article claiming that our school was the biggest party school.) There is plenty of great academic stuff going on at Penn State. There are even a whole lot of students who go there and never attend a football game. That NPR thing (I haven't looked at it in a while) tells part of what's going on in State College, but that's far from all of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Larisa wrote:
There is plenty of great academic stuff going on at Penn State. There are even a whole lot of students who go there and never attend a football game. That NPR thing (I haven't looked at it in a while) tells part of what's going on in State College, but that's far from all of it.


That is exactly why I think the sanctions are good, they need to put the focus on academics. Without most of the administration, town, and alumni only concerned about football it might make a big difference for the students that went to the school to learn things.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:03 pm 
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chiveggie wrote:
I am very conflicted by this. I have many family members that went to Penn State including my grandfather who knew Sandusky for many years through raising money for the University and his charity. Believe me he was stunned and is heartbroken over this entire scandal.

These two points I agree with completely. The attorney general decided not to prosecute years ago. I just don't see how he could put his career aspirations and conflict of interest ahead of his duty of his position. It might be wrong of me, but I think somebody in that position should be blamed even more than others for not following up on possible sexual misconduct with kids.

Vantine wrote:
gwenc02 wrote:
I'm amazed that no one is talking about Tom Corbett's role in all of this. As the Attorney General, he knew about the investigation into Sandusky. You can make the argument that he didn't pursue that issue as much as he should have while he was AG, knowing that he was making the run for governor and didn't want to risk alienating Penn State alumni and fans. As governor, he has a place on the Board of Trustees and apparently didn't inform them of any ongoing investigation into the program. If we're so intent on dishing out blame, he deserves more than a bit.


The school is being punished not only because an adult man raped children in it's locker room but because there was a culture on the campus that made football more important than stopping that from happening again. I think the language that the NCAA used was "a lack of oversight." There is no way that a football coach should have been able to influence whether or not police were called when it was obvious that Sandusky was a child rapist.
It's entirely appropriate that the football program be punished in such a way that it loses it's power on the campus. The point of the scholarships being removed is in part to remove the power that the program has. I would presume there are other financial assistance programs if someone really wants to get an education at Penn State without the big time football.


The NCAA wanted to send a message that if you put sports over doing what is right, you will have consequences. It is quite a precedent to set for any other school that covers things up. I also think it's a good one to set because sports shouldn't be the most important thing at colleges. Oh and I believe the money was set based on a calculation of how much the football program profits each year.

I also wonder what would be happening if Paterno was still alive. All the emails are other people saying what Paterno said, but since he is dead he isn't able to answer to those allegations. He was notorious for not using technology himself, so who knows if he ever saw any of those emails. There is still debate as to whether McQuery told him actual details or that they were "horsing around". Remember in that generation guys often showered together and even did some sports together naked so "horsing around" might not have seemed a big deal. (even my dad said his swim lessons at the Y were conducted without suits when he was little) Obviously if he heard details there is no excuse for not reporting and following through with it. Nobody knows which it was though. He had a lot of integrity with everything else in his life-or so it seemed. Was this scandal the opposite of that? Were all the good things he did for the University over the years his way of alleviating his guilt for covering this up? No idea. I hope those involved are telling the truth now, but they could also be making themselves look better and giving a bit more blame to the one that isn't around to defend himself.

When you hear that a grown man was showering with a 10 year old child, you call the police. Full stop. To not call the police demonstrates that your priorities are in serious need of adjustment. You don't call the school administration until after the police are called. You don't give a flying squirrel about football or the school's reputation. I find it difficult to believe that Freeh created evidence to suggest that Paterno was guilty or that the emails that mention conversations with Paterno are not legitimate. I would suggest that an argument could be made that he was just not the person that people presumed he was.

As far as the money he donated to the school, that stuff didn't just fall from the sky like manna from heaven. He was well compensated by anyone's measure.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
I would presume there are other financial assistance programs if someone really wants to get an education at Penn State without the big time football.


It's not just Penn State losing scholarships. Again, the scholarships got taken specifically from Penn State, but it's not like Michigan or Ohio State or Virginia or someone else gets them instead, they're just gone. There are, if you're lucky, Pell grants and PHEAA grants. When I was a dependent of my parents and first applied to Penn State, I wasn't eligible for any. I got an almost full ride from George Washington, but no state school offered me any money- not Penn State, not anyone. I actually ended up borrowing less money to go to GW than I would have had to go to Ohio State, Penn State, or Michigan. Now that I'm older and am no longer on my parent's tax returns, yes, I do get government grants. I had a little more than $12000 in income last year. This coming year will also be the first year that I have a scholarship - for $1250 a semester and I carried a 4.0 GPA until I took organic chemistry this summer. State schools are not like private schools that give out big financial aid packages. It's pretty much a given that you'll be taking out loans for the full amount of tuition to go to a state school. At least in PA, other states may be different, but I doubt substantially. There is only so much money to give out. So when those scholarships disappear, it hurts.

As far as the party school thing, I say that's a really subjective designation. I've personally gone to George Washington, Iowa, and now Penn State. I have good friends who went to Temple, UPenn, Pitt, Syracuse, Maryland, Michigan, Yale, NYU, and Stony Brook among other places. If you think drunk students acting like crass holes is strictly a Penn State problem, you can't have been in a college town in awhile. I've never seen any partying here that was above and beyond things I've seen or heard about anywhere else. Actually, I would say that GW was worse, especially where drugs were concerned. There are a percentage of people who are just jerks when they drink, plain and simple. It happens, it's unfortunate, but it's not just a college student problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:50 pm 
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I can understand being concerned about students losing scholarships but I do think sports overtaking academics is an issue in many schools. What about the fact that often athletes may have lower academic standards than other students? Is it fair for an athlete to get into a school where a student with higher academic records may not? I knew a few people from my high school that had dismal academic records but were great athletes and they were able to get into the same schools where others with higher records were rejected.

I also had both sides of the coin where I went to a private school for 2 years and got great scholarships/no loans but then transferred to a state school. Although I was given a grant at the state school that covered my tuition, I had no parental help so I had to take out some loans for living expenses, books, fees, etc. Generally, private schools get a lot of donations which they can often provide funding to their students plus they tend to be smaller. Public schools though are there to provide education to the public which can be costly and yes students may have to take out loans. I ended up with $12k/loans after 3 years in a public university (summers included, transferring from a private school, changing majors meant a lot of extra credits).

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:30 pm 
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I would have been okay with the NCAA saying "take the cash and give them young men need based/academic scholarships" and you don't get football at all for a year or two. We can guess how many players would have stayed for that. I took out loans; football players can take out loans.

I live in Florida so I am very much familiar with party schools. UF was known as a party school when my mom was in college.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:08 pm 
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The thing about the scholarships incenses me. Penn State (at least as of last year, but I don't imagine it's changed) has the highest in-state tuition of any public school in the nation. It's not cheap to go here. Fine, the kids can go to another school, but it's not like those scholarships get redistributed, they're just gone. So kid A doesn't go to Penn State because he doesn't get a scholarship here and goes to Florida or Texas or wherever else instead and gets one there. But because he took that scholarship, now there isn't one available for kid B who wanted to go to the same school. Somewhere, someone is losing out on scholarship money because those scholarships went away. Yeah, it sucks for our program, but it sucks even more for those 40 kids who now don't get any scholarship money at all. That's the punishment I take issue with.

This is not accurate. The scholarships that are being "taken away" are funded by the athletic department, probably through endowments donated specifically for the purpose of funding football scholarships. The NCAA is prohibiting the institution from awarding these scholarships, which means that the athletic department will still have the money that was intended to be used for these 20 scholarships. It's possible the athletic department could choose to redirect the scholarship finds (though that may not be possible if the donor(s) placed limitations on where the funds could go). So no current or future Penn State student is missing out except those football players who will no longer go to Penn State because the football program has 10 fewer scholarships per year they are permitted to award.

I grew up in central PA, loving Penn St football (along with most everyone else I knew). It is so clear to me that the culture surrounding football and the cult of Joe Paterno needs to change. It's that very culture that allowed a predator to molest and rape children for years. The Freeh report actually notes at the beginning that other assistants noticed Sandusky showering with boys for years prior to 1998 and didnt think anything of it. Seriously?! This was not just the failings of four men. The Penn State culture may not have created this monster, but it sure as hell allowed him to wreak havoc on innocent, unsuspecting children for years. And, my two cents is that sanctions at least this severe are necessary and appropriate.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:05 pm 
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sofrito wrote:
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The thing about the scholarships incenses me. Penn State (at least as of last year, but I don't imagine it's changed) has the highest in-state tuition of any public school in the nation. It's not cheap to go here. Fine, the kids can go to another school, but it's not like those scholarships get redistributed, they're just gone. So kid A doesn't go to Penn State because he doesn't get a scholarship here and goes to Florida or Texas or wherever else instead and gets one there. But because he took that scholarship, now there isn't one available for kid B who wanted to go to the same school. Somewhere, someone is losing out on scholarship money because those scholarships went away. Yeah, it sucks for our program, but it sucks even more for those 40 kids who now don't get any scholarship money at all. That's the punishment I take issue with.

This is not accurate. The scholarships that are being "taken away" are funded by the athletic department, probably through endowments donated specifically for the purpose of funding football scholarships. The NCAA is prohibiting the institution from awarding these scholarships, which means that the athletic department will still have the money that was intended to be used for these 20 scholarships. It's possible the athletic department could choose to redirect the scholarship finds (though that may not be possible if the donor(s) placed limitations on where the funds could go). So no current or future Penn State student is missing out except those football players who will no longer go to Penn State because the football program has 10 fewer scholarships per year they are permitted to award.



I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying the money disappears, I'm saying it doesn't get awarded. Yes, the money sits until the sanctions are over, so Penn State isn't technically "losing" money, but it's less money that can be given out into the system. If I gave the impression that the NCAA awards that money, I apologize for the misunderstanding. My point was and is that since Penn State is prohibited from distributing that money, it can hurt kids at other schools, not just at Penn State. Each school may only award so many athletic scholarships, so when a kid who was going to go to Penn State (or USC a few years ago or whichever school is being sanctioned) doesn't and goes somewhere else, they take up a scholarship spot that would have gone to someone else otherwise. Player X would have gone to Penn State on a scholarship, but that was one of the scholarships that can't be awarded. Instead, he goes to Michigan. Player Y would have had the last available scholarship for Michigan, but Michigan decided they're going to give it to Player X. Now Player Y doesn't get one. Yes, Penn State still has that money for the scholarship that would have gone to Player X, but that doesn't really help Player Y. That was what I was trying to say, though it wasn't as clear as it could have been.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:04 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
You don't go to Penn State for the academics.



Not to derail, but seriously, if you don't know, don't make blanket comments like that. I can tell you firsthand that all the Schreyer Honors College students went there, many instead of Ivy Leagues they got into, bc SHC is one of the best honors programs in the country. An unfortunate byproduct of this whole scandal is that the world thinks PSU is a party and a football school and it stops there. Thousands of students who didn't go to games or frat parties will tell you otherwise. And thousands upon thousands of alumni agree with the sanctions.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:06 pm 
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RandiJM wrote:
An unfortunate byproduct of this whole scandal is that the world thinks PSU is a party and a football school and it stops there. Thousands of students who didn't go to games or frat parties will tell you otherwise. And thousands upon thousands of alumni agree with the sanctions.


Actually, I think the impression it has given the world is far worse than merely "bonehead party school."

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:35 pm 
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RandiJM wrote:
solipsistnation wrote:
You don't go to Penn State for the academics.



Not to derail, but seriously, if you don't know, don't make blanket comments like that. I can tell you firsthand that all the Schreyer Honors College students went there, many instead of Ivy Leagues they got into, bc SHC is one of the best honors programs in the country. An unfortunate byproduct of this whole scandal is that the world thinks PSU is a party and a football school and it stops there. Thousands of students who didn't go to games or frat parties will tell you otherwise. And thousands upon thousands of alumni agree with the sanctions.


People already thought it was a party school-- now people think it's a party and child abuse school.

Incidentally, I also agree with the sanctions.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State Scandal
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Ah, yes, gwenc02, I misunderstood and see your point. Apologies! I guess, though, my heart isn't breaking because if an athlete is at the level where he was offered a Penn State football scholarship, he will have plenty of options elsewhere. I don't see there being a huge trickle-down effect from the 20 athletes who ultimately will go somewhere else each year. I would love to see Penn State take the football scholarships they can't award for athletics and award them as academic scholarships.

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