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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 pm 
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b.vicious wrote:

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I mean, did you not immediately think that Jared Lee Laughtner had some sort of mental illness, just judging from the expression in his mug shot?

I hope this part was a joke.

Did you see his mug shot? He had just murdered several people, including a child and shot a woman in the head. He's grinning in his mug shot. He's been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

He also has a history of acting out and was kicked out of community college because it was believed that he posed a danger to faculty and students.

While all violent people are not mentally ill, some mentally ill people are violent. I don't see how it serves anyone to pretend otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:28 pm 
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This is why we have trials. Case by case basis.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:56 pm 
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I think I'm with b.vicious on this... I don't see how saying "this person must be mentally ill" can't be construed as "these actions are because this person is mentally ill". Equally with the comment at the top of the page:

"Did you see his mug shot?"
I don't understand how mental illness can be diagnosed through a photograph, other than based on stereotypes.

"He had just murdered several people, including a child and shot a woman in the head. He's grinning in his mug shot. He's been diagnosed with schizophrenia."
I'm concerned that you're linking schizophrenia with serial killing. My partner has schizophrenia and it's just a part of her personality and the way she thinks. I would assume that while Jared Lee Laughtner may have been diagnosed with the same illness (I feel a bit weird calling schizophrenia an illness but I don't know much about terminology here) he had a drastically different personality and life experiences.

I know you're not saying "all people who have mental illnesses are violent", but assuming that someone has a mental illness based on violent actions or intentions carried out in an uncommon way doesn't seem right to me.


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:03 pm 
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OK how about this? If she wasn't mentally ill, she'd carry out her violent plan in a different manner. Maybe she'd still kill, but it would be in a more rational way (it could be an uncommon way, but still rational).


Last edited by bastah on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Killing = rational? :S


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:17 pm 
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According to the National Institute of Mental Health, Schizophrenia is a brain disorder. I didn't link it to a serial killer; Jared Lee Laughtner is not a serial killer. He's a mass shooting suspect who alleged writings contain some paranoid rants about authority and the government.
From the NIMH:
Quote:
People with the disorder may hear voices other people don't hear. They may believe other people are reading their minds, controlling their thoughts, or plotting to harm them. This can terrify people with the illness and make them withdrawn or extremely agitated.

People with schizophrenia may not make sense when they talk. They may sit for hours without moving or talking. Sometimes people with schizophrenia seem perfectly fine until they talk about what they are really thinking.


No one has suggested that the fact she wanted to have someone killed means that she is mentally ill. You are ignoring the total picture and the details of what she is accused of.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Crusty Rat wrote:
Killing = rational? :S


This is, again, ignoring the details of this particular case. No one is discussing murder in general or violence in general. We aren't even discussing the mentally ill in general.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Crusty Rat, it seems like maybe your issue with this is that you feel like you need to defend how your partner thinks and that just because she thinks differently, doesn't mean she'd commit a violent act. You maybe think we're already accusing her of something she hasn't done or we're judging her without knowing her?

I have been diagnosed with OCD. I know for a fact that I don't think rationally all the time. I have a mental disorder. This means that some of my actions are a direct effect of my disorder. Why am I washing my hands when I just washed them five minutes ago? I might feel I need to even if I don't need to. If the OCD wasn't affecting me, I wouldn't do this behavior. It's OK to say that a mental disorder is the cause for certain actions.


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:02 pm 
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bastah wrote:
Crusty Rat, it seems like maybe your issue with this is that you feel like you need to defend how your partner thinks and that just because she thinks differently, doesn't mean she'd commit a violent act. You maybe think we're already accusing her of something she hasn't done or we're judging her without knowing her?

I have been diagnosed with OCD. I know for a fact that I don't think rationally all the time. I have a mental disorder. This means that some of my actions are a direct effect of my disorder. Why am I washing my hands when I just washed them five minutes ago? I might feel I need to even if I don't need to. If the OCD wasn't affecting me, I wouldn't do this behavior. It's OK to say that a mental disorder is the cause for certain actions.

That was my issue with mass shooting (sorry, not serial killing) = schizophrenia.

I'm not debating that mental disorders can cause irrational behaviour, just that irrational behaviour automatically = mental disorder. Along with the schizophrenia issue (schizophrenia is very badly represented and the term is regularly misused), I have depression and anxiety and I agree that a lot of my behaviour is influenced by this. I do have some history of violence, mainly towards myself but sometimes towards others, usually people I care about.

That doesn't mean that people should automatically assume that a person has a mental illness because they act illogically. I also don't think that your not being offended takes away my right to be offended.

Sorry if this is worded badly/I've said too much. Good night.


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:52 pm 
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How about we just all agree that the lady in question was/is FORKIN' WHAT THE FIZZLE BRO and leave it at that?

:)

Or should I say :8

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:00 am 
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b.vicious wrote:
Jigglypuff wrote:
What the fork? I hope she gets the mental help she obviously needs. That is bizarre behavior.

Quarantined wrote:
The chances that this actually would have ever gone down are pretty much nonexistent, though, even if the feds hadn't interfered. This woman was obviously crazy and I doubt she would have found an accomplice willing to kill someone for for less that a grand who wouldn't have been scared off by her mental state, as well as the fact that she wanted to be present when the murder took place.

Violent person =/= crazy person. I know and love people who are actually "crazy" - even animal activists! - who wouldn't ever ever do something like this. I'm sure you don't intend for this to be insulting, but it is.

I was expecting this.

For the record, I am mentally ill myself. I don't think that being violent is the same as being crazy. However, I think it's a bit silly to even pretend that this person isn't mentally unbalanced after trying to find someone to slit another person's throat for a political statement.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:48 am 
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Some people seem to be over-intellectualizing this matter somewhat. Clearly this person is batsh*t crazy & needs to be detained/treated for everyone's safety including her own.


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:47 am 
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Jigglypuff wrote:
However, I think it's a bit silly to even pretend that this person isn't mentally unbalanced after trying to find someone to slit another person's throat for a political statement.


I don't think you can say that at all. Political assassinations happen all the time. But I don't think that it is the violent act itself that is making people question her mental abilities. Rather, as people keep saying, it is the method, specificity, and expected outcome that is making people take pause.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:36 am 
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Mars wrote:
How about we just all agree that the lady in question was/is FORKIN' WHAT THE FIZZLE BRO and leave it at that?

good idea.



JimXVX wrote:
Clearly this person is batsh*t crazy

i would appreciate it if we refrained from saying things like this.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:58 am 
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She was batshit irrational


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:13 am 
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GuiltyofBeingSprite wrote:
She was batshit irrational

cute.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:25 am 
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Irrationality does not equal crazy.

I'm with b.vicious and Crusty Rat here, and I'm actually kind of upset that just because you are not offended by calling this woman crazy, it must not be offensive, and therefore I am overreacting and not entitled to my feelings. And I know you're going to deny this as soon as I post it, because you never said that word for word, and therefore you never said that, or meant it, and you couldn't have possibly implied it.

I'm not trying to escalate this thread or say that anyone in it is a bad person or anything like that. I'm just saying that I was offended by the automatic conclusion that because someone commits a violent or irrational act, they must be suffering from some kind of mental disorder. This isn't the first place I've seen that. It's very pervasive, and it's always bothered me. I just don't appreciate that people are adding to this stereotype and then denying that they did that or implying that my feelings are invalid.

When someone tells you that they were offended by something you said, it's not because they think you're wrong or a bad person. The best response is not to get defensive, but to apologize and think about how what you said might have been harmful.

That's all. I hope this doesn't sound like I'm ranting or trolling or trying to start anything. I'm actually trying to end it.


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:31 am 
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Wow, this overreaction is really irking me. I have a mental illness as well, and I'm perfectly okay with saying this woman is not okay mentally. It's not saying everyone who is mentally ill is, we're talking about THIS woman and the circumstances around THIS case.

Or, maybe we should all just adopt Michael Scott's philosophy:
Quote:
My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter ... where. Or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or ... or where you've been ... ever. For any reason, whatsoever.


Perhaps you would like that better. Some members of the PPK really like to try and find things to be upset about on behalf of other people.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:34 am 
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It really irks me when people say I'm overreacting.


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:11 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Or, maybe we should all just adopt Michael Scott's philosophy:
Quote:
My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter ... where. Or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or ... or where you've been ... ever. For any reason, whatsoever.


Perhaps you would like that better. Some members of the PPK really like to try and find things to be upset about on behalf of other people.

i might go so far as to call that overreacting.


look, i just think it's a good idea to consider other people's perspectives and try not to say or do things that bother them. that's all.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:38 am 
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If people saying someone who intended to murder any old person, doesn't matter who, just so long as they are wearing fur, through solicited a hitman on Facebook and then thought it was perfectly sane and rational to hand out pamphlets at the murder scene is mentally unwell based on what we know is something that bothers you, then well that's on you. Perhaps you might consider leaving the internet since there are far worse things being said than that pretty much everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:44 am 
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eatsbabies wrote:
I just don't appreciate that people are adding to this stereotype...

just to confirm: you are offended by the stereotyping of people who have committed - or attempted or intended to commit - violent acts. have i got that right? assuming you don't fall into that category - if you do, i urge you not to share your experience - then are you indeed being offended on someone else's behalf?

eatsbabies wrote:
And I know you're going to deny this as soon as I post it, because you never said that word for word, and therefore you never said that, or meant it, and you couldn't have possibly implied it.

also, if your comments are directed at one person, it's a good idea to quote them. speaking to the general "you" and making blanket statements about what "[anyone]" says or does is likely to escalate a disagreement.


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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:50 am 
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eatsbabies wrote:
When someone tells you that they were offended by something you said, it's not because they think you're wrong or a bad person. The best response is not to get defensive, but to apologize and think about how what you said might have been harmful.

I take issue with this. The best response is not necessarily to apologize when someone is offended. Sometimes you have to simply agree to disagree. One might think it over and agree that they were offensive. One might also think it over and not agree.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:05 pm 
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I need to step in as a mod here because this thread is a bit out of control.

In short: It is not the policy of this message board that you must be a licensed psychologist in order to speculate on someone's mental health. That said, please understand that this is a sensitive issue and take care with your language. I am guilty of that as well, and so I will try to be more sensitive. THAT SAID, please only respond to statements that were actually made. Not statements that you believe were implied.

My thought on this case is that it's an "AR" thing, so of course we're going to discuss it. We either call this person a crasshole or we think she had a mental illness. I don't believe there is a third option, other than don't discuss it at all. But, in our day to day lives, we often have to assess the mental health of the people around us, and if we had to be licensed in order to do so, it would really suck. Haven't you ever gotten a friend or family member help because you thought they might have a mental illness? Haven't you ever been confronted on the street by someone and had to quickly assess what their motives were? Maybe it even saved your life. Haven't you ever had to assess yourself because you thought something might be wrong?

There are social queues, behaviors and actions that we assess as mentally ill. Of course, it's always possible to be wrong. But, at least on these message boards, it's ok to have that conversation. And I think it's ok to have a conversation about that conversation, too. Because I'm meta like that.

I would say if this subject is too enraging for you, on either side, then stepping away is the best option for you. I'm not going to close this thread, at least for now.

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 Post subject: Re: AR person tries to put out a hit on someone wearing fur
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:25 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Perhaps you might consider leaving the internet since there are far worse things being said than that pretty much everywhere.

was that directed at me?


IsaChandra wrote:
In short: It is not the policy of this message board that you must be a licensed psychologist in order to speculate on someone's mental health. That said, please understand that this is a sensitive issue and take care with your language. I am guilty of that as well, and so I will try to be more sensitive. THAT SAID, please only respond to statements that were actually made. Not statements that you believe were implied.

thank you, Isa.

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