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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Veggiebeat wrote:
It's a very sad night for America. I'm a mix of sad, angry, and worried for this country. What bothers me particularly about some comments is the people who are so insistent that race had nothing to do with this and accuse Trayvon supporters of race baiting. It's almost less frustrating to see the flat-out racist remarks than the ones that boil this down to an issue of "self defense" or "2nd amendment." Yeah right.

About rioting- I'll admit it, I cancelled my plans for tonight when I heard the verdict. I have African American friends and Hispanic friends who did the same. We aren't expecting riots, it just seems better safe than sorry considering this is such a tense situation. It's not just the possiblility of a riot, violence can be on a smaller scale. Hell, I've had friends get threatened for wearing the wrong football team's jersey.



You know it could be the KKK lynching someone and some people would still say "this has nothing to do with race! Stop playing the race card! YAWN!"

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
FootFace wrote:
PublicShaming has the comments you don't want to see.

Two seconds in and I wanted to punch my screen. Can't read the rest.

They have audio of the police telling Zimmerman more than once, I believe, to stop following Martin and get back into his car. Then they have audio of Martin screaming for his life and then a bang. How the fork did they find him not guilty? It's so clear that he followed someone who was just walking home, chased him and gunned him down.

The stand your ground law basically makes it legal for any white person to kill a black person and just say they were afraid later. Check out this article and chart and see:
http://io9.com/disturbing-chart-shows-r ... -773490798

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:03 pm 
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LazySmurf wrote:
Mr. Shankly wrote:
FootFace wrote:
PublicShaming has the comments you don't want to see.

Two seconds in and I wanted to punch my screen. Can't read the rest.

They have audio of the police telling Zimmerman more than once, I believe, to stop following Martin and get back into his car. Then they have audio of Martin screaming for his life and then a bang. How the fork did they find him not guilty? It's so clear that he followed someone who was just walking home, chased him and gunned him down.

The stand your ground law basically makes it legal for any white person to kill a black person and just say they were afraid later. Check out this article and chart and see:
http://io9.com/disturbing-chart-shows-r ... -773490798


I wish I had had this to post in response to a bunch of people's "why we gotta make this a race issue?" statuses before I defriended them.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:26 pm 
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My friend posted this on Facebook:
Quote:
I'm a little concerned about how many of my Facebook friends consider themselves qualified to deliver a verdict in the Zimmerman case. I understand why this was an emotionally charged case but there's a reason juries have to listen to days and days of testimony all of which is governed by the Rules of Evidence and there's a reason the jurors are sequestered as much as possible. I also realize that the trial was public but I doubt any of the people posting have watched it in its entirety. I think a lot of the opinions people have formed have been based on bits and pieces they've heard in the news. Juries may be imperfect and they may make mistakes but trial by jury is still a hell of a lot better than trial by media.


What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
My friend posted this on Facebook:
Quote:
I'm a little concerned about how many of my Facebook friends consider themselves qualified to deliver a verdict in the Zimmerman case. I understand why this was an emotionally charged case but there's a reason juries have to listen to days and days of testimony all of which is governed by the Rules of Evidence and there's a reason the jurors are sequestered as much as possible. I also realize that the trial was public but I doubt any of the people posting have watched it in its entirety. I think a lot of the opinions people have formed have been based on bits and pieces they've heard in the news. Juries may be imperfect and they may make mistakes but trial by jury is still a hell of a lot better than trial by media.


What do you think?

First black people weren't allowed to be jurors because of bias. Because white people are colorblind they were allowed to decide it.

But I don't really blame the jury so much as the system. The law is totally forked to begin with (check out the article I posted above). The defense just needed to show that Zimmerman feared for his life. That's why it's so forked up if means anyone (theoretically) could stalk and kill someone with a gun and then when they fight back you can kill them. Because of systemic racism in our society black men get the shiitake end of the deal. Here is an article from the New Yorker where they talk about a case that was the opposite racially. http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... e&mobify=0

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Here is an article from the Miami Herald which ran in the largest paper in FL with comments from Florida attorneys explaining the verdict.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:05 pm 
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I actually stuck the wrong story in, here's the one I was talking about http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/14/ ... the-Answer

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:53 pm 
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That casewas not really similar.


There were witnesses and it took place in daylight. The shooter brought a gun to chase a 14 year old skateboarder off a basketball court. The victim was there with his 8 year old daughter who watched her father die. Other witnesses included a couple who were playing tennis nearby. It also took place during the daylight.

All of the witnesses described Dooley as the aggressor who flashed a gun and told the victim "Fork You." The victim was killed trying to wrestle the gun away from Dooley.

Here is a concise summary along with other "Stand Your Ground" cases.

There was actually very little to no discussion of race in that case.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:30 pm 
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I've been offline most of the weekend, which is probably good for me, because otherwise my head would explode with rage. I'm so incredibly disgusted, disappointed, heartbroken, etc. Regardless of whether or not I was in that jury room, the fact at the bottom of the case, which even the defense can agree to, is that if it weren't for Zimmerman, Trayvon would still be alive today. Zimmerman killed Trayvon. The fact that the jury failed to convict him even of manslaughter is just a breathtaking miscarriage of justice.

I ache for his parents and all those who knew and loved him. To lose a child in such a violent way must be beyond heartbreaking. To see his killer walk free because of a racist judicial system... "injustice" doesn't even begin to approach what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
Here is an article from the Miami Herald which ran in the largest paper in FL with comments from Florida attorneys explaining the verdict.

This is interesting. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Aaand one of the jurors has already signed with a book agent. She will allegedly be writing the book with her husband, who is an attorney. Given that this transpired less than 48 hours after the verdict was released, this raises major issues of how long she was planning on profiting off someone else's murder and whether she had discussed the case with her husband before the end of the trial.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasqui ... ady-shoppi

Just sickening. Nobody can do anything these days without first ascertaining what's in it for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:58 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I've been offline most of the weekend, which is probably good for me, because otherwise my head would explode with rage. I'm so incredibly disgusted, disappointed, heartbroken, etc. Regardless of whether or not I was in that jury room, the fact at the bottom of the case, which even the defense can agree to, is that if it weren't for Zimmerman, Trayvon would still be alive today. Zimmerman killed Trayvon. The fact that the jury failed to convict him even of manslaughter is just a breathtaking miscarriage of justice.

I ache for his parents and all those who knew and loved him. To lose a child in such a violent way must be beyond heartbreaking. To see his killer walk free because of a racist judicial system... "injustice" doesn't even begin to approach what it is.
All of this. I am so enraged, grief-stricken, frustrated, aghast, disappointed...I honestly don't know what to do with the way I feel about this except cry and punch stuff, neither of which accomplishes anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:11 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Aaand one of the jurors has already signed with a book agent. She will allegedly be writing the book with her husband, who is an attorney. Given that this transpired less than 48 hours after the verdict was released, this raises major issues of how long she was planning on profiting off someone else's murder and whether she had discussed the case with her husband before the end of the trial.


GAH! What a freaking vulture.
Lawyers: if it (somehow) ever came out that she had discussed the case before the end of the trial, would there be consequences for her and her lawyer husband?


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:06 am 
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For those who have never been on a jury, it's pretty difficult. There really needs to be a significant amount of evidence and it needs to prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt, but beyond that, you're given extra parameters. You get a list of things that the evidence must prove. If the evidence does not prove those things, then you can't go with a guilty verdict. It was interesting when I was on a jury, because one of us asked "did he most likely commit this crime?" and all of us raised our hand, but then then next question was "does the evidence support this?" and none of us raised our hand. There was definitely enough evidence to have a "gut feeling" that the guy was guilty but when you looked at the list of things we had to prove he was guilty of, a gut feeling was not enough. So for this reason, I don't think it's too surprising that we got this verdict in the Zimmerman case. I'm just hoping that the national outcry will help change these stupid stand your ground laws that allow for such crimes to take place.


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:48 am 
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BuzzFeed says she's not going to write the book now.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:53 am 
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FootFace wrote:
BuzzFeed says she's not going to write the book now.
Well, thank god for that, anyway. Talk about venality. I can't (and don't want to) imagine what Trayvon Martin's family is experiencing right now, but I do hope they pursue a civil wrongful death suit against Zimmerman because he cannot be allowed to simply walk away with zero consequences. If they can't hit him in his apparently non-existent conscience, they can hit him in his wallet, which he obviously does care about, since he's essentially embezzled much of the money sent him by his lunatic racist admirers.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:18 am 
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The way the book deal offer was rescinded is pretty cool.

http://www.uproxx.com/webculture/2013/0 ... book-deal/

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:01 am 
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Every time I read something thoughtful (for example Eugene Robinson's column in WaPo asking why black boys are so expendable) there are a million comments that ate straight up racist (which often deride others for "making this about race").

It's frustrating that people refuse to see or admit that the US is a pretty forking racist country. Even if you want to argue that the jury made a legally correct decision, the fact is that underlying racism in law enforcement, the justice system and our culture at large made that decision possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:16 am 
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I just want to say that I believe this is about race, but it is not just white versus black. Zimmerman is Hispanic. I am sick of news articles that say "Martin is African American and Zimmerman identifies as Hispanic." Or that Zimmerman is a "white Hispanic." I am not in support of Zimmerman here, but I am not happy with the way people are addressing his Hispanic-ness as just something he says he is. Lots of Hispanic people have light skin and they don't necessarily think of themselves as white.


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:59 am 
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so. i wonder if the woman who got 20 years for firing a warning shot, if she had killed her (ex?)husband instead, if she would have gone free.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:29 am 
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I think it's likely that there was racial bias involved here, but I'm not that surprised that Zimmerman got off. The US has some deeply strange ideas about what does or should constitute self-defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:31 am 
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I thought this was really interesting:

http://www.popehat.com/2013/07/15/the-z ... -wish-for/


kimba wrote:
I just want to say that I believe this is about race, but it is not just white versus black. Zimmerman is Hispanic. I am sick of news articles that say "Martin is African American and Zimmerman identifies as Hispanic." Or that Zimmerman is a "white Hispanic." I am not in support of Zimmerman here, but I am not happy with the way people are addressing his Hispanic-ness as just something he says he is. Lots of Hispanic people have light skin and they don't necessarily think of themselves as white.


I think the issue is that hispanic isn't a racial category. Here's an interesting article on that from a while back: http://www.concurringopinions.com/archi ... nd-latinos’-conceptions-of-race.html


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:39 am 
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I think Kimba means that GZ should be able to identify how he wants and not have the media do it for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:45 pm 
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In this must-watch clip, Martin Bashir compares the petty and exaggerated “offenses” in Trayvon’s past to the actual and very real offenses committed by a young President W. Bush, providing a powerful dichotomy on the current state of racial relations in America.
http://occupydemocrats.com/watch-martin ... 4-minutes/

Woman tweets her thanks to God for the bullet that killed Trayvon: http://www.yourblackworld.net/2013/07/b ... d-trayvon/

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
In this must-watch clip, Martin Bashir compares the petty and exaggerated “offenses” in Trayvon’s past to the actual and very real offenses committed by a young President W. Bush, providing a powerful dichotomy on the current state of racial relations in America.
http://occupydemocrats.com/watch-martin ... 4-minutes/
That was great.
Tofulish wrote:
Woman tweets her thanks to God for the bullet that killed Trayvon: http://www.yourblackworld.net/2013/07/b ... d-trayvon/
And that made me want to kill myself.

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