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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:05 am 
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Bella Luna wrote:
Imitation Of Chris wrote:
Zimmerman's own tape is pretty damning. He says things "looks like he's on drugs", "they always get away", and then worries that Treyvon saw him and was looking his way, because obviously no one would be suspicious of a bubba following them with their car. The most damning part of the call is when he says "he ran" and you can then hear that familiar sound of air rushing by the phone receiver. So this kid was running and he kept following him, either in his car or on foot.


Right...that's the worst part about it. Zimmerman approached Trayvon (literally ran after him) and then shot and killed him. I just don't understand how that qualifies as self defense.


I completely agree. His evidence for even following Trayvon was ridiculous. He's walking around and looking at things. Wow! That is enough to start chasing someone.

I've listened to the 911 calls twice since last night and am so overwhelmed with sadness and anger at how this has been handled. So many people indicating Trayvon was screaming for help moments before he was shot should be enough to at least arrest Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the real threat to society and he's whereabouts are unknown (last I read at least).

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:15 am 
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elouise wrote:
Update: there will now be investigations at the federal and state levels : http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03 ... ned#update

It only took a forking month.

Oh oops, that link no longer leads to same place in the article, since they're constantly adding updates. You'll have to scroll up a bit to 10:56 pm.


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:23 am 
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This is yet another piece of the tragic and unnecessary death of Trayvon. He was scared for his life. Check the story for his final moments on the phone with a girlfriend.

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-mar ... ts-details

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:38 am 
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The conversation with the 16 year old is so chilling. It makes it clear that Zimmerman chased Trayvon Martin down, confronted him and pushed him, so he must have seen that Martin was a pretty slight teen.

I hope this case leads to a re-examination of stop and frisk laws in NYC where black and Latino men are disproportionately (80% of stops) are presumed to be dangerous, so no probable cause is needed. Its a cultural view that young men of color are dangerous, and it needs to be reformed.

What is sad is that had Trayvon had any hint of an issue - drug use, been a bad kid at school, had a record (even for something stupid and non-violent) it would have been used to justify the shooting, and the truth is the victim shouldn't be on trial. Its sad that you have to prove that a young black man isn't a criminal before a crime against him will be taken seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:50 am 
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TuxedoCat wrote:
I've listened to the 911 calls twice since last night and am so overwhelmed with sadness and anger at how this has been handled. So many people indicating Trayvon was screaming for help moments before he was shot should be enough to at least arrest Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the real threat to society and he's whereabouts are unknown (last I read at least).

Zimmerman claims that it is HIM (not Trayvon) screaming. I so don't believe it and am stunned by how nothing has happened to him. Also, some people (mainly Zimmerman's family) keep trying to say that Zimmerman isn't racist because he's a minority too so it wouldn't make sense. Just because someone is of a minority status doesn't mean that same person can't be prejudiced against another minority status. Anyway, regardless of whether he's racist or not, he's a murderer and that's all that should matter to the police!

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:40 pm 
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TuxedoCat wrote:
This is yet another piece of the tragic and unnecessary death of Trayvon. He was scared for his life. Check the story for his final moments on the phone with a girlfriend.

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-mar ... ts-details

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse. So forking horrible. That poor, poor kid.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:52 pm 
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mixmaster_mo wrote:
TuxedoCat wrote:
This is yet another piece of the tragic and unnecessary death of Trayvon. He was scared for his life. Check the story for his final moments on the phone with a girlfriend.

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-mar ... ts-details

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse. So forking horrible. That poor, poor kid.


I felt the same way when I read it too Mo. It just keeps adding up to a disaster and makes me so angry with the police department for not detaining Zimmerman. He is the true menace to society. He followed Trayvon in his SUV, then chased him on foot, and ultimately ended his life. For what? Walking-while-black in a gated community? Zimmerman seems to have some kind of God/Superman/Cop complex that should be frightening to all of us.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:15 pm 
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There is absolutely no reason to see any any any truth in a self defense claim, when the person he was 'defending' himself against was 100lbs lighter, and completely unarmed.

This guy was told not to pursue, and did anyways.
This guy obviously needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, why is there even a question about it?!


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:42 am 
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It is a shame they didn't do an alcohol/drug test on Zimmerman because killing of a random person is definitely out of the norm. Could be drugs, mental illness or something else.

And yes Hispanics can be racist.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:50 am 
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Slate puts the blame for the failure to charge Zimmerman with Florida's stand-your-ground law.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... uted_.html

Hopefully this case will give legislators pause about introducing similar legislation.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:21 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
I know it is fashionable to always assume the worst of FoxNews, but I will be really shocked if O'Reilly doesn't discuss this from the side of the boys' family. Ditto Greta and everybody on The Five.

I flip back and forth among all the news channels, and, avoiding crepe like Hannity/Huckabee, etc there isn't all that much difference when it comes to news reporting. O'Reilly has obnoxious social views, but I like watching him because he is almost always fair and his interviews are usually pretty good. He is commentary anyway, not news.

From what I could tell, CNN and FoxNews were running pretty much exactly the same heart wrenching footage. I don't think anyone can spin this, though I guess Hannity might try. I won't listen to find out.


I don't really watch Fox News (enough to know that they have toned down the rhetoric and bubble-headedness) but I just saw this critique of their coverage. Since I haven't watched I won't judge, just found it interesting: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/20/fox-news-coverage-of-the-trayvon-martin-case-criticized.html
just mumbles wrote:
Hopefully this case will give legislators pause about introducing similar legislation.
I didn't really realize until last night that my state is one of many that has the same law. You can get away with a lot in Texas if you seem to be on the right side of the law. We had an incident in my town a couple of years back where this guy shot a couple of men fleeing after robbing his next door neighbor. He was in no danger, didn't go to jail, I think issued a statement expressing remorse about it and saying he wished he hadn't done it, but still became a local hero and people still have Joe Horn for President bumper stickers. Also, many years ago in Houston someone shot a drunken, lost Scottish tourist who was knocking on their door in the middle of the night. No charges pressed there either since they thought he was a robber.

It's pretty sad that with so many wrongs in so many states over the years, it takes the death of an innocent kid to bring it into the national discourse.


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:36 am 
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I wonder if Zimmerman himself has been the victim of a burglary or something. The reason I say that is, someone I know had his house broken into while on vacation a few years ago, so now any time anyone 'suspicious' looking is around his house, he gets his gun. Which is god damned terrifying. He wants payback for something that someone else did and seems to almost look forward to the chance to legally shoot someone.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:41 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:37 am 
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I keep waiting for something to come out of this story that doesn't make me really depressed. Still waiting.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:01 pm 
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Fee wrote:
I keep waiting for something to come out of this story that doesn't make me really depressed. Still waiting.
How about it? The whole thing makes me sick.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:41 pm 
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For real Geraldo? Way to blame the victim. It's just as bad as blaming rape victim for being attacked based on what they were wearing.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politi ... are-blame/

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:13 pm 
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And Newt Gingrich thinks that Obama's statements about the Travyon Martin shooting are disgraceful.

Quote:
Newt Gingrich called Obama's remarks about Trayvon Martin "disgraceful" in an interview with Sean Hannity, according to CBS/National Journal.

“It’s not a question of who that young man looked like. Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified no matter what the ethnic background," Gingrich said. "Is the President suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot that would be ok because it didn’t look like him?"


http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-hab ... 18518.html

How twisted do you have to be to get that from Obama's statement? Yes, lets pretend that race didn't play a role in the killing.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:43 pm 
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One of the many things that has sparked anger in me about this case is the way certain people are so quick to deny the possibility of racism. It's almost exhausting just thinking about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:15 am 
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TuxedoCat wrote:
For real Geraldo? Way to blame the victim. It's just as bad as blaming rape victim for being attacked based on what they were wearing.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politi ... are-blame/


I can see where this idea comes from--hoodies are banned at my school because of MS5/gang stuff. I don't agree with the conclusions or victim blaming at all, but the hoodie=gang connection is there in some areas. I have no idea what connotation hoodies have in the neighborhoods, but lots of people wear them around, so it's probably mostly around the schools, though I'm told parts of Manassas where gang activity is a problem, it's a bigger deal. If a kid is wearing a hoodie around school grounds, it is assumed by all that they are involved in gang stuff of some sort, even though, to my knowledge, gang stuff isn't a huge issue for us, though it is at a few other schools in the county (but they don't all ban hoodie). We don't have any other odd dress code rules, so I am assuming this ban is with cause. Compared to many schools, our dress code is super liberal (students can wear sweat pants, flip flops, tank tops, etc).

This story just makes me want to cry. My personal feeling is that Zimmerman has some serious mental health issues and he was a ticking time bomb. Rather than analyze what Trayvon Martin was wearing, I'd rather know why nobody was ever concerned about a guy walking around with a neighborhood with a loaded gun, calling 911 over 40 times for spurious reasons.

Those photos have really gotten to me. He looks like such a sweet, sweet kid. He reminds me of a few of my students, which really makes my heart ache.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:41 am 
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If you are interested in donating to the family to help with legal costs, establishing a foundation, etc. here is an article that tells you how you can help:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/2 ... 76000.html

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:47 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
This story just makes me want to cry. My personal feeling is that Zimmerman has some serious mental health issues and he was a ticking time bomb. Rather than analyze what Trayvon Martin was wearing, I'd rather know why nobody was ever concerned about a guy walking around with a neighborhood with a loaded gun, calling 911 over 40 times for spurious reasons.


I concur lavawitch. Here is another article that is rich with details, including Zimmerman's history of violence and information about those random, spurious calls:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03 ... -explained

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:18 am 
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TuxedoCat wrote:
For real Geraldo? Way to blame the victim. It's just as bad as blaming rape victim for being attacked based on what they were wearing.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politi ... are-blame/


I don't particularly like Geraldo, but given he wrote this for the Latino portion of Fox news, I can get what he might have been trying to say but said poorly. If you are a non-white person in this country, you are held to closer scrutiny and need to be more careful. The survival rates are pretty abysmal for young black men in this country. I don't know about anyone wearing a hoodie being menacing and I don't think if this young boy hadn't put his hood up, he'd be alive. I think though if you are addressing a non-white group about incidents like this, the sad fact is you might want to tell them that yes you are held to a higher standard because of your race.

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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:53 am 
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mixmaster_mo wrote:
One of the many things that has sparked anger in me about this case is the way certain people are so quick to deny the possibility of racism. It's almost exhausting just thinking about it.



Seriously. There are people on my fb who are defending Zimmerman, saying that he can't be racist because he's Hispanic. Really now??

This all feels like victim-blaming to the most ridiculous degree. Why aren't we concerned about the fact that this guy has a loaded gun and has a serious past of taking the law into his own hands?


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 Post subject: Re: Teen shot in Florida, 911 calls released.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:50 am 
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linanil wrote:
TuxedoCat wrote:
For real Geraldo? Way to blame the victim. It's just as bad as blaming rape victim for being attacked based on what they were wearing.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politi ... are-blame/


I don't particularly like Geraldo, but given he wrote this for the Latino portion of Fox news, I can get what he might have been trying to say but said poorly. If you are a non-white person in this country, you are held to closer scrutiny and need to be more careful. The survival rates are pretty abysmal for young black men in this country. I don't know about anyone wearing a hoodie being menacing and I don't think if this young boy hadn't put his hood up, he'd be alive. I think though if you are addressing a non-white group about incidents like this, the sad fact is you might want to tell them that yes you are held to a higher standard because of your race.

He didn't actually write that as an essay. It's basically just a transcript from Fox and Friends, probably the most race-baiting of Fox's programs except for maybe Hannity, made into essay. And yeah, it's true that we put racist expectations on minorities and require them to jump through hoops to prove they aren't one of "them." But it's that racism and those expectations that are the problem, not the hoodie. Can you imagine the average Fox viewer's reaction if a hoodie like this were marketed to black people in Oakland?

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