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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:50 pm 
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Criticizing clothes isn't the same as criticizing bodies. I don't know why people don't get that. This is why I love the TLO blog: they have really mastered the art of celeb fashion praise and snark with zero body shaming. They bring the hammer down hard on that crepe. KK gets a lot of free clothes and gets paid a lot to market things, so snark on her taste level while she does those things is A ok by me, but, yeah, keep her body and pregnancy out of it.

I also love that they often criticize the whole idea of dressing to "look smaller" as a whacked way of thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Yes to all of this! I'm a proud Bitter Kitten, and have such respect for Tom & Lorenzo.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:23 pm 
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zelavie wrote:
Yes to all of this! I'm a proud Bitter Kitten, and have such respect for Tom & Lorenzo.


If the fashion world were like TLO, wouldn't the world be a glorious place? We wouldn't have magazines with medically underweight models* on one page and ads for miracle diet yogurt so you can lose 5 lbs in a week to fit into tight jeans on the next, followed by dippy asparagus articles on loving your body, flaws and all (also cake and cookie recipes if it's a "women's magazine).

*im not criticizing the models, but holding up a particular body type that isn't natural, sustainable or healthy for most people is a problem. The fact that it might be for those specific women is pretty much irrelevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:20 am 
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Wouldn't it be lovely to walk past a magazine display and see, for instance, Melissa McCarthy on the cover of a fashion mag without the words "real woman" next to the pic? And for that to be a normal, everyday occurrence? And for actresses to be able to get work without fitting in the current Hollywood definition of "pretty"? And for fashion designers to not get freaked out when they have to make a garment for someone who wears a size 10 or 14?

One day...

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:52 am 
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Or for Adele to have something other than head shots?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:57 am 
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I can say from experience that the fashion industry is every bit as dehumanizing, horrible, and full of body shaming as you'd think it is. Worse, maybe. When I was at my lowest weight and was seriously, seriously underweight for my body frame, I got told all the time that I was "too curvy" and "too womanly", meaning I had hips and boobs and that wasn't the ideal. Meanwhile, the rest of me was skeletal from eating disorders. fork THEM ALL so hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:30 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
I can say from experience that the fashion industry is every bit as dehumanizing, horrible, and full of body shaming as you'd think it is. Worse, maybe. When I was at my lowest weight and was seriously, seriously underweight for my body frame, I got told all the time that I was "too curvy" and "too womanly", meaning I had hips and boobs and that wasn't the ideal. Meanwhile, the rest of me was skeletal from eating disorders. fork THEM ALL so hard.


aye, I can say this from experience too. I got really sick when I was about 14 and as a result lost a ton of weight, and looked sick. Buuut I was told by model scouts, fashion people etc that I needed to lose weight. It really messed me up because I'd been told I needed to gain weight to be healthy, but these people who were pretty and thought I was pretty told me the opposite.
I'm 20 now and only just reaching my ideal "healthy weight", though at the lower end. Because I'm six foot tall, my clothes size is larger than I look, and for some reason it hurts when people act shocked when they find out my jeans size. It's a number! Who cares?!
My brain has taken a long time to get rid of the messed up ideas that the model industry put into me. I saw myself as like some paper doll, with bits that needed to be trimmed off my hips, my belly, etc. Like I could just somehow slice them off. Dehumanizing is quite right.
I still have messed up ideas in some ways and it sucks. Sometimes I look in the mirror and dare to think I actually look pretty but immediately recall from that thought as if it's something to be ashamed of.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:59 pm 
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I'm mentoring a 13 year old girl at her school, with a bunch of other mentors and 13 year olds. She told me they call her friend "the stick" and she says "thank you." I want to plant some body positivity in her head. Don't really know how to go about it... any ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Would the book "Yes Means Yes" be too explicit? It's a really interesting collection of essays on positive consent, and has a really great article by Kate Harding that was my first introduction to, as she calls it, the fat-o-sphere.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:17 pm 
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I used to get called names for being skinny and I hated it. I got "toothpick". It wasn't a compliment--and it wasn't intended to be a compliment and I never took it as a compliment (although people would tell me they meant it as a compliment but I bought that the way I buy someone saying something shitty and then saying "I'm joking!" when they're not joking and clearly sticking it to you). Does this girl interpret such comments as compliments? I used to pretend I didn't care when people called me names for my figure but it hurt me deeply. Everyone should just STFU about everyone else's body forever, for all time, period and amen, but apparently, that's too much to ask.

I guess shifting the focus away from her body and complimenting her for her strengths and talents and the things she does well and her attributes and the person she is is one way to deflect her away from body thoughts. I got a lot of positive feedback on the person I was as a young'un - at home at least--it was never about not how I looked with my family--and that positivity (support from my siblings) helped me weather the storm of leaving the house when everyone else seemed to focus on physique. It's just so hard at that age! I suspect the body focus has increased since I was a young person, too, so I can't even imagine. It's hard for one voice of reason to oppose a chorus of negativity, but keep singing anyway! <3

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:46 pm 
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annak, I'm going to get that book from the library. seitanicv, I'm going to talk to her about what you're saying. These kids think they are complimenting her by calling her 'stick' in a jealous kind of way too. She says she likes it, but who knows really? "Everyone should just STFU about everyone else's body forever." YES. During that conversation with her, the only thing I really got out (out of all the things I wanted to say eloquently) was asking her if she knew anyone with an eating disorder and talking about that. Thank you guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:56 pm 
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I've been working with pediatricians for 24 years now, doing reports for them, and I have noticed a LOT more attention paid to body image issues and a lot of children dissatisfied with their bodies and more males with *anorexia--a lot more so than when I first started at my job. I don't work with adolescent medicine much, though, but it's a much greater preoccupation with teenagers than it used to be. And I feel like it's getting worse. *Is everyone just shells walking around? These bodies with nothing else within mattering anymore? Is that what the mindset is? I don't get it, how that came to be. Anorexia has always been around and body image issues, but it's definitely more of a thing than it used to be.

I was in a writing workshop a few years ago and a lovely young lady was being critiqued for her work and the prof was sort of roughing her up about things in her story and all she kept repeating with regards to her story's character on his every query was: "But she'll be fat!" I didn't get it, it was baffling to me. That was her defense of her character in the story? This was the source of all motivation? That was the worst thing that could happen to her, in her view? It was bizzare because the prof kept going after her on it, trying to go deeper, trying to get more out of her and that's all she kept saying. "But she'll be fat! She'll be fat!" I feel like we just got nowhere, she was stuck in that and that was all she was preoccupied with. He finally just gave up and moved on to the next person.

Good for you for being a positive influence! <3 <3 <3

*Sorry, I need to make a distinction between anorexia and body image issues here! Anorexia is a very serious illness with deep psychological implications and I think that body image issues often herald or can be a catalyst to a descent into anorexia in many cases but once anorexic mindset sets in, it's about much much more than body image and outward looks and goes much deeper than that. Just want to clarify that as I was conflating them here.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:29 pm 
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annak wrote:
Would the book "Yes Means Yes" be too explicit? It's a really interesting collection of essays on positive consent, and has a really great article by Kate Harding that was my first introduction to, as she calls it, the fat-o-sphere.


Is it this book?
http://www.amazon.com/Yes-Means-Visions ... in_title_0


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:08 pm 
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~Sz wrote:
annak wrote:
Would the book "Yes Means Yes" be too explicit? It's a really interesting collection of essays on positive consent, and has a really great article by Kate Harding that was my first introduction to, as she calls it, the fat-o-sphere.


Is it this book?
http://www.amazon.com/Yes-Means-Visions ... in_title_0



That's the one. I thought the Kate Harding essay was just really amazing and eye-opening if you haven't had much exposure to any take on fatness other than the blah blah obesity epidemic blah blah stuff that's so common (and when I read it, I hadn't). It might not be appropriate for a 13-year-old, though I wish I would've read something like it before I started dating (shortly after that)!!! The sexual consent stuff is the larger theme of the book and I think it too is useful for teenage girls.

What I like about Kate Harding is that she is as against thin-shaming as she is against fat-shaming. I'm not, relatively, very fat or thin, but I followed her blog for years afterwards and enjoy her writing.

Naomi Wolf's "The Beauty Myth" might also be a good one to check out.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:17 am 
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I also got teased pretty bad for being skinny. I also got teased for a million other things (I was bullied bad enough that I had to leave my school). Honestly, I'm not sure what, if anything, anyone could have said to me. I wasn't destroyed by that particular aspect of the teasing I got, though I did spend a lot of time looking in the mirror and being VERY unsatisfied with my flat chest. I think that if someone had handed me the Beauty Myth or Yes Means Yes, I might have read them, and I might even have liked them, but at 13, it would largely have been lost on me.

Something that has helped me feel good about my body as an adult is learning the things that my small frame makes me good at, like cycling. When I was young, my size seemed like a stupid impediment to all the sports and active things I wanted to do. Now, it can still present challenges (I will never outsprint a larger and more powerful woman on a flat stretch in a bike race), but I also see that my size makes me really good at some things (I will ALWAYS out-climb a larger and more powerful woman on a hill). What I think I mean is that seeing and appreciating what your body can DO has been way more powerful for me than any kind of reading material (and I've read plenty).

I don't know. 13 is just kind of a shitty age, and you're probably not going to be able to make a 13 year old feel totally happy about their body, and I happen to feel like that's probably okay too.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:29 am 
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I agree with Jordanpattern. 13 is a shitty age, and unfortunately coming to terms with our bodies is something I think everyone needs to work through on their own; there's no magic formula and a lot of people, myself included, go through different stages of that into and throughout adulthood.

Julialegume, I commend you though for wanting to plant seeds of positivity - I think that is probably the best thing you can do in trying to broach the subject with a 13 year old. I wish I had a role model other than females slivering cake (always on a diet! we should deprive ourselves, so no full slice for us!) and guzzling diet coke. I second the Beauty Myth and also liked Ophelia Speaks.

http://www.amazon.com/Ophelia-Speaks-Ad ... lia+speaks

You couldn't pay me enough to be 13 again. And yes, I emphatically agree that everyone should STFU about other people's weight. You have no idea what that person is going through.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:48 am 
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I, too, was a super skinny kid. While I don't remember being teased about it, I have a really hard time with perhaps not being AS skinny anymore. I feel this sort of pressure to continue being thin because people have always associated me with it. Those teen years are full of body changes, so, yeah, even if there is no teasing, commenting on a person's weight is just generally unhelpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Ugh, I made the mistake of watching Bachelorette with my mom last night- for once, a chick flick we can both agree was awful. Maybe I just don't understand the concept of "frenemies," but the friendships this movie was 'celebrating' were just atrocious. There's a lot of casual joking about bulimia (Kristen Dunce's BulimiaPowers even save the day by getting a friend to puke out an OD on pills! Hooray!), severe substance abuse/addiction, and date rape.

The catalyst of the plot is when two bridesmaids rip their friend's wedding dress while both posing it in at the same time for a Facebook photo in which the bride will be tagged. GET IT? OUR FRIEND IS A FAT COW, AND TWO OF US CAN FIT IN HER DRESS! The bride, who is played by Rebel Wilson, is put in as prop to remind people "hey guys? Fat acceptance, and whatever." She gets to squeeze out some mild self-assertion after every dozen or so fat jokes, and the filmmakers' half-assed attempt at tokenism is just as offensive. I found myself feeling sorry for her character- what kind of woman hates herself so much that she would put up with having these horrible women as "best friends"?

Also, I kind of got tired of the way everybody called each other a 'croissant' in this movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Great article on body shaming in the Vagenda: http://vagendamag.blogspot.co.uk/2013/0 ... ilure.html

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Ugh, I made the mistake of watching Bachelorette with my mom last night- for once, a chick flick we can both agree was awful. Maybe I just don't understand the concept of "frenemies," but the friendships this movie was 'celebrating' were just atrocious. There's a lot of casual joking about bulimia (Kristen Dunce's BulimiaPowers even save the day by getting a friend to puke out an OD on pills! Hooray!), severe substance abuse/addiction, and date rape.

The catalyst of the plot is when two bridesmaids rip their friend's wedding dress while both posing it in at the same time for a Facebook photo in which the bride will be tagged. GET IT? OUR FRIEND IS A FAT COW, AND TWO OF US CAN FIT IN HER DRESS! The bride, who is played by Rebel Wilson, is put in as prop to remind people "hey guys? Fat acceptance, and whatever." She gets to squeeze out some mild self-assertion after every dozen or so fat jokes, and the filmmakers' half-assed attempt at tokenism is just as offensive. I found myself feeling sorry for her character- what kind of woman hates herself so much that she would put up with having these horrible women as "best friends"?

Also, I kind of got tired of the way everybody called each other a 'croissant' in this movie.
Wow. This sounds like a perfect storm of everything I hate. Do people really like that stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
Wow. This sounds like a perfect storm of everything I hate. Do people really like that stuff?



Watch, in 2 years there'll be a sequel. (Or at least, that was basically my reaction to "Hangover" - incredulity that my husband found it entertaining - and that got sequelssss.)


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
This sounds like a perfect storm of everything I hate. Do people really like that stuff?


It was so bad that I didn't even care when Lizzy Caplan and Adam Scott hooked up. Their chemistry was so off that I didn't even remember until the next day that they were so amazing together in Party Down.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:04 pm 
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I'm not sure whether to put this in this thread, the feminist thread, or the as-yet-to-be-created-but clearly-necessary WHAT THE fork DID I JUST READ? thread. (Warning: ED-related content)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... e_you.html

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:11 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
This sounds like a perfect storm of everything I hate. Do people really like that stuff?


It was so bad that I didn't even care when Lizzy Caplan and Adam Scott hooked up. Their chemistry was so off that I didn't even remember until the next day that they were so amazing together in Party Down.


I just watched this movie the other day, too! Seemed liked it was going to be funny and it started out ok, but man it got bad and stupid! I totally don't believe friendships like that exist. Actually, I take that back because from the very start they were all rolling their eyes and they couldn't BELIEVE their fat friend was getting married!

Also, plot holes (not related to body shaming): the guy she was marrying seemed to have all their high school guy friends as his groomsmen, but in the beginning Lizzy Caplan made a point of saying that she'd seen the guy and he was hot, so clearly they didn't go to high school with him. I dunno, I guess I focus on stupid shiitake like that when a movie is so terrible?

Was that scene on the plane with Lizzy Caplan and Horatio Sanz awkward to watch with your mom?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:49 pm 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
Also, plot holes (not related to body shaming): the guy she was marrying seemed to have all their high school guy friends as his groomsmen, but in the beginning Lizzy Caplan made a point of saying that she'd seen the guy and he was hot, so clearly they didn't go to high school with him. I dunno, I guess I focus on stupid shiitake like that when a movie is so terrible?

Was that scene on the plane with Lizzy Caplan and Horatio Sanz awkward to watch with your mom?


Yes, I couldn't wrap my head around the groomsmen logic, either! Was this amazing hot groom so much of a loser that he didn't have any friends of his own?

Actually, the airplane scene wasn't that awkward to watch (would have definitely been super awkward to watch with my dad, though). I think what made me want to apologize to my mom for suggesting the film were the hinky date-rapey scenes and the nonstop barrage of women constantly calling each other croissants despite being "best friends." I do not shy away from the C-word, it's a fantastic cuss word (when used sparingly), but I have never called a friend by it.

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