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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:57 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
People of color will often say my mixed race daughter Leela is beautiful because of her lighter skin. It makes me sad to hear their prejudices, even when it benefits my child in that moment. As a darkskinned woman I've been told so often that it is ugly, and I just wish that L could grow up in a world where the darkness of your skin doesn't matter. And of course, while she is lighter for a South Asian, she is dark compared to a white kiddo, so even if the assumption benefits her in the moment, it sets up a dynamic to have her see lightness and whiteness as more beautiful, and whiteness is unattainable for her.

My mom used to get the exact same thing with me (I've probably mentioned this before). She was told that I was beautiful because of my light skin. I can imagine that it greatly sucked for my mother to be 1 out of the 2 dark children of her 6 siblings. I look more like my aunts than my mother but my mom is my mom and skin color does not define beauty. My mom is beautiful but never realized it.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:04 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
A great article, and link to a TED Talk, where an MD talks about blaming patients for their health problems if they are obese. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/1 ... rgiveness/

Quote:
Dr. Peter Attia thinks about his former patient often, the woman who came to him in the emergency room at Johns Hopkins Hospital one night seven years ago.

She was obese and suffering from a severe complication of Type 2 diabetes, a foot ulcer, which required an urgent amputation. At the time, Dr. Attia admits, he silently judged her. If she had only taken better care of her health, maybe exercised more and eaten less, he thought to himself, this never would have happened to her.

But a few months ago, in a TED talk, Dr. Attia stepped onto a stage and offered a few words to his former patient: “I hope you can forgive me.”

“As a doctor, I delivered the best clinical care I could, but as a human being, I let you down,” Dr. Attia, his voice breaking, said in his talk. “You didn’t need my judgment and my contempt. You needed my empathy and compassion.”

For many, Dr. Attia’s talk, delivered at a TEDMED conference in April and opened to the public on the TED Web site in June, has struck a chord, in part for its unusual candor.

Dr. Attia admits to something he believes many doctors may in fact be guilty of. That compassion for overweight and obese patients often is not quite as deep as it is for those who are sick for other reasons – the “unlucky” ones, for instance, who develop cancer or another disease through no apparent fault of their own.


I think its a great reminder that if we treat diabetes like a disease on its own, then we miss the opportunity to learn more about the diseases we often write off as complications of obesity like diabetes.


As an obese woman, I've always believed is that obesity itself isn't really an issue but things that can cause obesity can also cause diabetes. I'm reading a book right now called "Health at every size" and it confirms this. It also talks about the war waged on obesity that isn't supported by science. I think overall, we are going the wrong way in this country in shaming patients due to their size. I hadn't been to a doctor in 2 years because I was ashamed of my weight gain and didn't want to be judged. Maybe if we supported patients rather than shaming them, we'd be a much healthier country.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:55 am 
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linanil wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
A great article, and link to a TED Talk, where an MD talks about blaming patients for their health problems if they are obese. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/1 ... rgiveness/

Quote:
Dr. Peter Attia thinks about his former patient often, the woman who came to him in the emergency room at Johns Hopkins Hospital one night seven years ago.

She was obese and suffering from a severe complication of Type 2 diabetes, a foot ulcer, which required an urgent amputation. At the time, Dr. Attia admits, he silently judged her. If she had only taken better care of her health, maybe exercised more and eaten less, he thought to himself, this never would have happened to her.

But a few months ago, in a TED talk, Dr. Attia stepped onto a stage and offered a few words to his former patient: “I hope you can forgive me.”

“As a doctor, I delivered the best clinical care I could, but as a human being, I let you down,” Dr. Attia, his voice breaking, said in his talk. “You didn’t need my judgment and my contempt. You needed my empathy and compassion.”

For many, Dr. Attia’s talk, delivered at a TEDMED conference in April and opened to the public on the TED Web site in June, has struck a chord, in part for its unusual candor.

Dr. Attia admits to something he believes many doctors may in fact be guilty of. That compassion for overweight and obese patients often is not quite as deep as it is for those who are sick for other reasons – the “unlucky” ones, for instance, who develop cancer or another disease through no apparent fault of their own.


I think its a great reminder that if we treat diabetes like a disease on its own, then we miss the opportunity to learn more about the diseases we often write off as complications of obesity like diabetes.


As an obese woman, I've always believed is that obesity itself isn't really an issue but things that can cause obesity can also cause diabetes. I'm reading a book right now called "Health at every size" and it confirms this. It also talks about the war waged on obesity that isn't supported by science. I think overall, we are going the wrong way in this country in shaming patients due to their size. I hadn't been to a doctor in 2 years because I was ashamed of my weight gain and didn't want to be judged. Maybe if we supported patients rather than shaming them, we'd be a much healthier country.


I am pretty lucky with my doctor, I think. She has been my doctor most of my life and is therefore aware of all the issues I've had with weight in the past. She encourages me to keep being healthy by making healthier food choices and exercising, but she has never policed me about it. When I have been going through tough times with my mental health and I have been the one upset about my weight, she has always told me to look after my mental health because that is what is important at that time. Now that my binge eating isn't such a problem any more but I still can't lose weight, mostly because of medication, she was very much for me to worry about looking after myself (physically and mentally) because my body has had such a tough time with all of the med alterations and it will take time for my thyroid levels to become stable etc. and that weight loss isn't a priority right now.

She does weigh me when I visit because my family history plus my weight does put me at higher risk factors for certain health problems (she also insists on periodically getting bloods done and checking my BP) but she always asks if I am ok with it and if I am not then she doesn't insist.

When my B12 levels were low she also researched and printed stuff out for me about where I got get B12 as a vegan and although I already knew, I thought that was sweet. Nothing to do with body shaming, but I like her a lot!


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:26 am 
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I had a doctor who was the WORST. He was my psychiatrist and I was on zyprexa. I gained 40 pounds and he was all 'calories in, calories out' and 'you just need to exercise'. It was awful that he wouldn't acknowledge it was the medication (this was before the big Zyprexa lawsuit) and that the meds plus depression kept me in bed whenever I didn't have to do something so I wasn't about to start an exercise program.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Once upon a time when I was very sick and being tested for Cushing's disease, I had a doctor tell me that she didn't think it was necessary because I had "clearly gotten fat all on [my] own." She's an excellent doctor, and if I were having more problems in her area of specialty I would absolutely want her, but if I met her in a social situation, I would run in the opposite direction, because she is NOT a nice person.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:39 am 
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Some of my older relatives sometimes made comments about how I was so dark, or worried that I shouldn't be allowed to play in the sun because I would get darker. The subtext was usually that I was just barely in the "white" spectrum as it was, and with a tan, people might think I wasn't white.

(Actually, it wasn't always just subtext. I remember a few "If you let that girl get any darker, people will think she's a negro" comments.)


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:53 am 
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Ugh. This is sort of related, but I was teased relentlessly for being so fair. I had a popular guy in high school come up to me and say, "what's wrong with you?" when I asked him what he meant, he clarified that I'm a freak for being so pale and I must be albino or something. That was just one instance...I had the older brother of another friend tell me I was ugly because I was so pale. I also had people call me goth, witch...because I was pale.

It's just interesting that in a world where some idiots view white as the default and everything else is "other" to that, it's possible to be TOO white.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Yeah, I got the too-white comments too about my skin.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:35 pm 
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I'm super pale too! My childhood nickname was "Powder." Ouch.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:48 pm 
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I think among white people the pale/tan thing, at least as far as why we value a tan even if it kills us, has always been a class thing. Once upon a time pale skin was a good thing for a woman because it meant your husband was a good enough provider that you weren't laboring outdoors. Once we moved off the farm tan skin stopped meaning manual labor and started meaning that you could afford to vacation or at least had leisure time to spend in the sun. There's still a right way and a wrong way to have a tan because tan lines tell you whether someone was working in the sun or playing in it, right? The person teasing you for being pale might not mean anything classist themselves but it's at least part of why they've internalized the "tan is good" mentality. Also, of course, it's loads of fun to make 99% of everybody feel like there's something substandard about their bodies. And damn, we're good at it. :/

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:09 pm 
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The thing with being tan/pale, just like being larger/thinner is that there is no winning. If you're tan when you're young and everyone praises you for it, if you get skin cancer when you're older it's your own damn fault. I saw this very thing happen with one of my mom's good friends. Everyone praised her for being so fit and tan, but when she got skin cancer it was suddenly a terrible thing that she had done to herself.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:11 pm 
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This is quite late but thank you, everyone, for your support about the situation I posted a few weeks ago after returning from a family visit. That really brought up a lot of issues for me and I'm trying to figure out how to work through my body shame. I've decided to stop dieting and try to work towards intuitive eating and moving my body and loving myself where I am now... wish me luck :)

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Good luck, geeksweetheart! I always knew I'd finally come to a place where I didn't care what others thought about my body or how I looked and now that I'm there, it feels good! <3 <3 <3

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:41 pm 
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In middle school, a group of boys always called me "the albino." They were really incredibly mean about it too and sometimes talked about how it didn't make sense because I didn't look like a rabbit because I was fat. I don't even know. In high school, I started doing all the fake tan lotion crepe, then got sick of it and said "fork it."

I still get comments constantly. I either get the strangers coming up and telling me I have beautiful skin or I get strangers telling me that I'm so pale (really? gee, thanks for letting me know!). Sometimes this segues into a completely unwanted lecture on sun safety and how they hope I wear sunscreen. Then there are the people who tell me I look sick and should go tan or something.

I guess there is like a 3-5 shade scale of "attractive" skin colors? To go along with the 3-5lb variation in acceptable weights.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:47 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
I still get comments constantly. I either get the strangers coming up and telling me I have beautiful skin or I get strangers telling me that I'm so pale (really? gee, thanks for letting me know!).

Argh. Sometimes, you just want to say to such folk: "What are you, my forking mirror?!"

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:16 pm 
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I get the pale comments a lot too. I'm super pale, and well aware of it. And pale and veiny comments. Yes I'm pale and you can see my viens. I can see them too.
The most disturbing thing was when my roseacea was at it's worst, I would get comments about my wonderful tan, and I wanted to die, because it wasn't a tan, and it wasn't wonderful. It was something I had to get get rid of, not that you ever get rid of rosacea, but yea. It really hurt that people thought something that was damaging my skin looked so good, not like they could know, but still.

I'm also starting to get those super close to the surface purpley veins, I was looking in the mirror and getting dressed and thought it was a bruise, but upon further inspection, it's a vein, or blood vessel. I have a feeling if I get more it may start to really bother me, simply because I don't want to look like I have bruises all over my legs.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Mostly people comment on my veins. You can see them pretty much everywhere on my body and occasionally they'll be like super visible (for some reason I've never figured out) on like my forearms or chest. I don't mind, though, it makes me feel like Bane.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Fee wrote:
Mostly people comment on my veins. You can see them pretty much everywhere on my body and occasionally they'll be like super visible (for some reason I've never figured out) on like my forearms or chest. I don't mind, though, it makes me feel like Bane.

haha!

Mine are super visible on my legs, and my palms. I get the some days more visible than other thing, and also no idea why. The veins don't really bother me, but this new kind that decided to just appear does. It's like very purple and fine but like a bunch of squiggly lines close together. If it didn't look like bruise in the mirror I wouldn't care, but it looks like someone pinched my leg until I bruised.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:08 pm 
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It is one of the weirder things people comment about. I get told I am pale a lot (my ex used to call me tin foil skin, but jokingly because we both used to remark on how I was so pale I was reflective) but there were 3 girls in my old work who would constantly talk about it. I was never really offended by it or anything but they were pale too, just under layers of fake tan which is fine but just not my thing!


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Fee wrote:
I don't mind, though, it makes me feel like Bane.

I call Poison Ivy! I mean, I do find flower bits in my hair all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:44 am 
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I love my husband's veins! I trace them with my finger sometimes. He is pale but I don't know if I could say he is paler than most or not.

My mom also complains that I'm too pale but she is the only one. It is just different than how I grew up in a warm climate and wore shorts and short sleeves all year round.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:42 am 
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I'm pale too, especially in winter. Paleness is very much associated with being/eating unhealthy here, so I'm always worried people will think I'm pale because I'm vegan. When she was still alive my grandmother always used to tell me I was so pale, and ask me if I was eating well. I hardly ever get comments about it these days, but I still feel uncomfortable sometimes. This is crazy, because as previous posters have pointed out, tanning is actually very unhealthy. I also blush a lot, blush-shaming is a whole other chapter, but pretty uncomfortable and confrontational too.

I stumbled on this awesome post about fat-shaming and veganism. I see a lot of that going on at almost every vegan forum except for the PPK and it is so sad. I am pretty thin myself, and omnis sometimes comment that I look like a 'real' vegan (as in, is thin because she can't eat any of the 'good' stuff). I think showing the awesome diversity of body types and lifestyles vegans have is very important to the movement.

Quote:
Think further about the message conveyed to the 67 percent of Americans who are overweight and obese –if we don’t show them that people who care about animals come in all shapes and sizes, we’re alienating them before they even hear our words or accept our leaflets. The animal rights movement is growing broader and more diverse – the proverbial Big Tent – and fat-shaming vegans need to wake up to the notion that we don’t all need to look a certain way, which is of course superficial to begin with.

Also, I feel selling veganism as a weight-loss diet doesn't work, because if the person doesn't loose weight, of if they attain their goal, they'll go back to their old ways or maybe try some new unethical meat/fish/eggs-based diet.

Quote:
“The obesity research is extremely extensive and complex and the one thing that obesity experts agree on is that no one has the answers about this difficult problem. It’s extraordinarily unkind – and completely unscientific – to insist that anyone can be thin if they want to.”

Got that? It’s also unkind to give your unsolicited, unwanted opinion about another vegan’s health, weight and fitness, no matter how much you think it may serve the cause of helping animals. What you’re telling them is that having a perfect body – thin, but not too thin, able bodied – is their contribution to the cause, and they are falling short. You’re telling them people aren’t going vegan because of how they look.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:05 am 
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Cornelie wrote:
I stumbled on this awesome post about fat-shaming and veganism. I see a lot of that going on at almost every vegan forum except for the PPK and it is so sad. I am pretty thin myself, and omnis sometimes comment that I look like a 'real' vegan (as in, is thin because she can't eat any of the 'good' stuff). I think showing the awesome diversity of body types and lifestyles vegans have is very important to the movement.

That is a great post.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:20 am 
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baps wrote:
Cornelie wrote:
I stumbled on this awesome post about fat-shaming and veganism. I see a lot of that going on at almost every vegan forum except for the PPK and it is so sad. I am pretty thin myself, and omnis sometimes comment that I look like a 'real' vegan (as in, is thin because she can't eat any of the 'good' stuff). I think showing the awesome diversity of body types and lifestyles vegans have is very important to the movement.

That is a great post.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:11 am 
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baps wrote:
Cornelie wrote:
I stumbled on this awesome post about fat-shaming and veganism. I see a lot of that going on at almost every vegan forum except for the PPK and it is so sad. I am pretty thin myself, and omnis sometimes comment that I look like a 'real' vegan (as in, is thin because she can't eat any of the 'good' stuff). I think showing the awesome diversity of body types and lifestyles vegans have is very important to the movement.

That is a great post.
"Breaking news...Health is not the issue, diet is not the issue, eating nuts or cupcakes isn’t the issue – justice for animals is. Veganism is not a diet. Period. Full stop."

YES.

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