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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Lately, I've been feeling really bad about... my ankles. Because someone made a comment about how I have "skinny chicken ankles." THEY ARE ANKLES. Who gives a damn!?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Fee wrote:
I still think about that dentist who told me if I got braces I could turn my okay smile into a perfect smile. And then my bumbling answer of "I don't really...care...about...perfect smiles?"


I sometimes think about the dental assistant who said she'd tell the dentist I wanted to talk about teeth bleaching. All I could think about was the primatologist I knew who told me that monkeys with larger and darker canine teeth tended to be more dominant. Is that true? I don't know. Whatever. My teeth are tooth-colored.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:42 pm 
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mollyjade wrote:
Someone in our local blogging group posted this article, and it's really bothering me. Except I can't put my finger on exactly what it is. I agree that marketing/advertising is a problem and the way the media deals with body image is a problem, but the tone of the article rubs me the wrong way. It seems more about shaming than actually empathizing or dealing with a problem.

https://medium.com/health-the-future/918b3d08f21f

That article was horrible. For one thing, that "magazine full of fat bodies" showed a bunch of thin stars. For another, anyone using BMI uncritically as a measure of "healthy/unhealthy" weight is not someone I'm going to put any stock in--especially since a) BMI changed overnight in the late '90s from 27 to 25 being the cut-off and b) longevity and health are positively correlated with BMIs in the 25-28 range.

And, really, what did that article really say other than "ew fatties be eating chips and soda", when you get down to it?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Speaking of dentistry stuff. There was an ad on TV I saw a couple times while at a motel in CA. It was for something like Californian society of Orthodontists or something. The ad was full of all these people smiling big huge happy smiles with the creepiest photo-shopped looking teeth I've ever seen. It was like that frakking dog commercial where the dogs are photoshopped to be smiling with human teeth. Like jeebus. Why the fork can't we have normal damned teeth?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:03 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
mollyjade wrote:
Someone in our local blogging group posted this article, and it's really bothering me. Except I can't put my finger on exactly what it is. I agree that marketing/advertising is a problem and the way the media deals with body image is a problem, but the tone of the article rubs me the wrong way. It seems more about shaming than actually empathizing or dealing with a problem.

https://medium.com/health-the-future/918b3d08f21f

That article was horrible. For one thing, that "magazine full of fat bodies" showed a bunch of thin stars. For another, anyone using BMI uncritically as a measure of "healthy/unhealthy" weight is not someone I'm going to put any stock in--especially since a) BMI changed overnight in the late '90s from 27 to 25 being the cut-off and b) longevity and health are positively correlated with BMIs in the 25-28 range.

And, really, what did that article really say other than "ew fatties be eating chips and soda", when you get down to it?


That was a terrible article. I do think the author was trying to make two points the: the aforementioned fatties be eating junk argument and the more important but poorly worded point that healthy choices are not always available to us. It is an important public health argument, but the story is all wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:37 pm 
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I'm overhearing a conversation between two heavily-tattooed people at a pretty darn punk bar in PDX talking about how stretched-ears are 'extreme' and on the level of scarification. :/

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:40 pm 
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A friend of mine posted this article about the Boy Scouts banning anyone -- adult or child -- with a BMI of 40 or above from participating in the annual Jamboree. Basically they weren't willing to do it on a case-by-case basis and did it on BMI instead. I wouldn't have had an issue with barring people from certain activities if there were health/weight issues that posed a risk to themselves or others on a case by case basis, but there can't be any good reason to ban anyone with a BMI over 40 from the entire Jamboree, just because of their BMI, especially if there is no real reason why they can't participate. And surely there must be many parts of the Jamboree that anyone could participate in - regardless of size. Our girl guide bonfires are some of my fondest memories and they really required no movement of any kind from us - just lots of sitting and singing.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/19/health/boy-scouts-bmi

Its just another reminder that BMI doesn't really mean anything and that there is still way too much conflation of weight and health issues. And it made me sad for the people who were excluded for no good reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Mars wrote:
I'm overhearing a conversation between two heavily-tattooed people at a pretty darn punk bar in PDX talking about how stretched-ears are 'extreme' and on the level of scarification. :/


Yes, sadly it happens and it's really weird when people who have body modifications themselves decide that theirs are okay but other people's aren't. One of my facebook friends got a bad haircut and said something like "I should've known when I sat in the chair of a 19 year old covered in tattoos..." She has like, five tattoos but all of them are covered except her wedding band (I know one is on her tit but I don't know where the rest are) so I guess it's okay? I've also heard people with smaller stretched lobes criticize those with ears that are 'too big'. fork all them bisques.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:09 am 
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My dad works in the dental industry and one of the dentists he worked for apparently told some lady whose teeth he was fixing that he knew someone who could fix her nose. I would've been struggling not to punch him if he'd said that to me. Thankfully he's not my dentist though.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:05 am 
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[quote="j-dub]
especially since a) BMI changed overnight in the late '90s from 27 to 25 being the cut-off [/quote]

I did not know that! I do remember the limit for "underweight" moving from 20 to 18 a few years back.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:33 am 
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raspberrycomplaint wrote:
Fee wrote:
I think doctors are the worst about that because it's like they forget that in the path of them making making money they may hurt someone's feelings? I still think about that dentist who told me if I got braces I could turn my okay smile into a perfect smile. And then my bumbling answer of "I don't really...care...about...perfect smiles?"

My dentist did the same thing, which is one of the reasons I will never go back to her. I had my teeth cleaned when I was about 23 or 24, and the hygienist complimented me on how clean my teeth were, so I was feeling pretty good about myself. And then the dentist came in, glanced at my teeth, and said, "Okay, let's talk about getting braces for you." I was just like, "What? I didn't ask for braces. I don't want braces." And she said, "Don't you want your smile to be PERFECT?" I said no, and she got angry and told me that if I were her daughter, she would make me get braces. The whole thing was really weird, and after that I kept looking at my teeth in the mirror and thinking "Are they really that bad? That tooth is pretty crooked. Should I have gotten braces?" But you know what, fork her. My teeth are fine.


I actually wish someone had suggested it to me. Mine are really crooked and I don't like it. A woman who works for recently got hers on for a birthday present to herself aged 45 and if I wasn't so frightened of dentists I'd really consider it.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:01 am 
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I wish I had the money to fix my teeth. Even at NYU dental school the treatment plan that would yield the best results had a $10,000 price tag, and that was in 2007. I'm eventually going to need a partial. Actually, I already DO need one.

I hate when people equate missing teeth with being 'trash'. My jaw is abnormally small and I have gum disease and I had a serious addiction problem throughout my 20s and early 30s and as a result I have lost teeth. So whenever someone says that I cringe.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:22 am 
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Nothing wrong with getting orthodontic work as an adult. But I think it's wrong to assume its what a kid will 'appreciate' later in life. I wish very much my parents had never got me braces. Not only was it a waste of money because the idea behind it was that it would stunt the growth of my underbite (it didn't), but I also think my top teeth are too straight and would look more normal with my face if they weren't.
(Also that jaw thing is another body shaming related thing for sure. The ortho's were all about telling me if the braces didn't stunt them, I'd need major jaw surgery so that I would look 'normal'. I went a long time in life thinking that I 'had' to get it, like I had no say in the matter. Now I'm quite fond of my jaw)

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:25 am 
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madeleine.teacup wrote:

My teeth are tooth-colored.


To me, this statement is nothing short of brilliant. I will remember this next time I agonize over my lack of white teeth - I'm fair skinned, I drink decaf coffee and tea, my teeth will never look white. In future I will just shrug my shoulders and say, meh, my teeth are tooth coloured.

All of the above mentioned dentists are jerks and I'm grateful for my current dentist, but there have been some dinks in the past, and I still brace for myself for a possible shaming lecture each dental appointment.

My body shaming has come from my own mind lately. I've turned my full length mirrors around because I was tired of hearing my own self shaming around the fact that I am fatter than I'd like at the moment. I've been driving myself mad trying to figure out the exact calories I should be eating to shift the weight, getting all wrapped up in all the conflicting TDEE calculators. It's been crazy! I'm now calling bs on the whole lot. I'm eating better, I'm exercising regularly so whatever the outcome of that is will be fine. If I lose the weight great, if I just become more fit and have more energy but remain gently rounded - that's gotta be cool too. Reading through the posts on this thread has helped me come to this conclusion.

I told my husband this morning I found his big bum and small waist very sexy, and that I was envious because my waist is thick and my bum, well, not that round anymore. I said "I'm sorry if it comes across as shaming when I mention your round bum." His response was "I don't ever think of the shape of my body, so no, I always took it as a compliment" Oh how I envy that freedom to never be concerned with the shape of my body. How differently we as women are socialized. Not that men aren't increasingly encouraged to be insecure about their bodies, but historically.....

sorry for clumsy wording, but hopefully I've made some sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:45 am 
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jean wrote:
madeleine.teacup wrote:

My teeth are tooth-colored.


To me, this statement is nothing short of brilliant. I will remember this next time I agonize over my lack of white teeth - I'm fair skinned, I drink decaf coffee and tea, my teeth will never look white. In future I will just shrug my shoulders and say, meh, my teeth are tooth coloured.
Last time I had my teeth cleaned, the hygienist asked if I whiten them, and when I answered no, she said, "Oh, well they look really good!" as if A. I'm particularly fortunate to have relatively white teeth, and B. this somehow reflected on my character. It was kind of funny, but I really don't understand the current obsession in the US with the (to my mind) unnaturally blazing white smile. I have a neighbor whose teeth have obviously been whitened, and they look sort of...strange. Like they aren't real, or don't go with her complexion, or are just somehow "wrong" for her face. I assume she's spent a bunch of money on it, and I hope she's happy with them (which is obviously all that matters), but I actually find it sort of distracting.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:02 am 
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Mars wrote:
Nothing wrong with getting orthodontic work as an adult. But I think it's wrong to assume its what a kid will 'appreciate' later in life. I wish very much my parents had never got me braces. Not only was it a waste of money because the idea behind it was that it would stunt the growth of my underbite (it didn't), but I also think my top teeth are too straight and would look more normal with my face if they weren't.
(Also that jaw thing is another body shaming related thing for sure. The ortho's were all about telling me if the braces didn't stunt them, I'd need major jaw surgery so that I would look 'normal'. I went a long time in life thinking that I 'had' to get it, like I had no say in the matter. Now I'm quite fond of my jaw)

Yeah I don't know what the right answer is. My understanding is that orthodontia as an adult is more challenging since the teeth are more set in place. I'm super grateful I had orthodontia as a kid (ages 6-14...it was intense) because I had no jaw and huge teeth so I would have looked like a shark and my jaw wouldn't have been aligned correctly. It still kinda isn't after all those years of work. I do agree the shaming people over their teeth is bs though and reeks of classism..

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:11 am 
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Man, I will NEVER understand the western world's fixation on perfect smiles and white teeth. Like, I brush my teeth because they feel gross if I don't, I floss maaaybe once a month, I got braces as a kid but didn't wear my retainer because duh it was annoying so I don't have a perfect smile, and I mean...I'll get a filling if I have a cavity but let's face it it's just teeth and as long as I'm not in horrible pain I certainly don't care about a perfect vanity smile, especially when it costs thousands and thousands of dollars.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:16 am 
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What's really weird is that I've heard people say that that's something they actually care about in a potential partner. That they're only attracted to people with good teeth. Or that it's up there with a good sense of humor. I just don't understand, it's like saying I only want someone with a good nose. Who even? Why? Where are we?

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:23 am 
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Fee wrote:
What's really weird is that I've heard people say that that's something they actually care about in a potential partner. That they're only attracted to people with good teeth. Or that it's up there with a good sense of humor. I just don't understand, it's like saying I only want someone with a good nose. Who even? Why? Where are we?
The "good teeth" thing also carries a whiff of that weird old "good breeding stock" trope: "Okay...strong flanks, not too long in the withers, good teeth, looks like a capable breeder. I'll take it!"

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:28 am 
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Yeah, my orthodontist used to love blaming my crooked teeth on my British heritage. Like, how is that okay? Am I supposed to be ashamed to be English? No, because being English is forking sweet because I got to live in both Canada and England growing up and that was a pretty rad experience that transcends the gentle leaning of my bottom left lateral incisor.


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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:51 am 
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As someone with extensive dental problems who has undergone very invasive and very expensive procedures to look "normal" today, let me just say I love everything everyone is saying right now. I guess I don't often think of teeth as being a part of the body, and thusly part of body shaming, but yeah, it is. I spent the first twenty years of my life being shamed, criticized, and ostracized for something over which I literally had no control (and, to this day, no conclusive diagnosis). Although the appearance is no longer an issue, I will never forget the experiences I had in my formative years and as horrible as they were, they are a huge part of why I would never criticize someone for their body.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:56 am 
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What, like being English makes you genetically disposed to have crooked teeth?? (I mean, I do have crooked teeth, but I don't think it's because of the country I was born in. It's more because I had a fight with my potential orthodontist so my parents never took me back! It doesn't affect my ability to scoff cake, and that's the main thing!)

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:57 am 
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Yeah, I never heard that about being English either and I'm half English.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:38 pm 
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dropscone wrote:
It doesn't affect my ability to scoff cake, and that's the main thing!
Indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Had enough of body shaming?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:44 pm 
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dropscone wrote:
What, like being English makes you genetically disposed to have crooked teeth?? (I mean, I do have crooked teeth, but I don't think it's because of the country I was born in. It's more because I had a fight with my potential orthodontist so my parents never took me back! It doesn't affect my ability to scoff cake, and that's the main thing!)

This was my first introduction to British teeth.

Image

That said, I know lots of Brits with excellent teeth and lots of Americans with terrible teeth. I have an extra tooth that's pushing one of my adult teeth nearly sideways.

All this talk about teeth has reminded me that I need to see my dentist about fixing my jacked up grill. It's not a body-shaming thing for me - I frequently bite the inside of my mouth when I sneeze or eat sandwiches (specifically, for some reason), both of which I do often. And it makes cleaning my teeth more difficult. So it's more of a comfort thing, though I would like to have the usual number of teeth and for that one tooth to be pointing in the right direction.

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