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 Post subject: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:25 am 
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Heya.

Workin' on a personal project o' mine aimed at addressing the biggest world-spanning issues plaguing our planet. Specifically those we as humans contribute to. They're not limited to affecting just the planet, they can include issues with simply how we affect each other.

They can't be war, lack of food or water, or diseases/viruses, or other matters which are largely byproducts of and encompassed by bigger pre-existing issues, and natural disasters are largely out of our control.

I would imagine Animal Exploitation is a gimme, but I want to hear what you guys think are the 6 most widespread human phenomenon that negatively impact the planet and our lives on it. Are they Global Warming? Religion? Government? Teletubbies? I have ideas, but my views are naturally limited to my personal sphere of information and extrapolation which is why I would like to know what you guys think.

Assuming it's okay to do so on here (I'm new, so I'm not entirely sure what the rules for this kind of thing is), I would welcome debate in regards to which topics are truly the most significant or impactful.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:28 am 
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I would name 6 things that are all really just "global warming" in disguise and then point that out at the end.

Loss of genetic diversity due to capitalism is making foods vulnerable (plenty of articles and examples out there: mad cow disease, bananas going extinct, etc.)
Consumption of animals is not only a moral cruelty, but an environmental disaster as it wastes more resources leading to hunger and causes a great deal of carbon release.
Oil and coal production lead to smog and lung disease. See basically all of China. Schools are even shut down today for that reason.
Etc.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:40 am 
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Or check out some Centre for Effective Altruism blogs -- they and their partner organizations (eg the Centre for Existential Risk) are good at naming things, and are concerned with similar issues.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:22 am 
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Actually, bananas going extinct isn't really our fault. The variety we eat was selectively breed and have limited to no resistance to disease since there is no genetic diversity; our food bananas are basically clones of each other. There are plentiful wild varieties.

Sorry. I read a banana book and now I'm the boring banana person. It was a really good book though! I went on and on and on about it in the nonfiction spread.

It's a good starting point for any discussion about our capacity to exploit and abuse each other for profit and power, however. I'd say that's a major world problem.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:28 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
Sorry. I read a banana book and now I'm the boring banana person.


I just may sig this.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:43 pm 
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You don't think we caused the problem by breeding what are basically clones instead of allowing genetic diversity?

"While dozens of different varieties are grown around the world, often in close proximity to one another, commercially produced bananas are all the same (quite literally in fact, because they are effectively clones of each other).

This helps companies like Dole and Chiquita control for consistency and produce massive amounts of bananas on the cheap without having to deal with imperfections (it's the reason why the fruit is so easy to find at supermarkets everywhere). But it also makes their bananas incredibly vulnerable to attacks from pests and disease. When you get rid of variety entirely, you risk exposing a crop to something it can neither cope with nor evolve to defend itself against."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... o-extinct/


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:47 pm 
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Overpopulation
Subjugation of women
Speciesism
Zealotry/Fanaticism
Unregulated capitalism in general, and specifically industries not held responsible for their true costs (which I'm blocking on the term for - lifestream analysis?).

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:56 pm 
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Hollie wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
Sorry. I read a banana book and now I'm the boring banana person.


I just may sig this.


Made me laugh

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:38 pm 
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Tigon wrote:
You don't think we caused the problem by breeding what are basically clones instead of allowing genetic diversity?

"While dozens of different varieties are grown around the world, often in close proximity to one another, commercially produced bananas are all the same (quite literally in fact, because they are effectively clones of each other).

This helps companies like Dole and Chiquita control for consistency and produce massive amounts of bananas on the cheap without having to deal with imperfections (it's the reason why the fruit is so easy to find at supermarkets everywhere). But it also makes their bananas incredibly vulnerable to attacks from pests and disease. When you get rid of variety entirely, you risk exposing a crop to something it can neither cope with nor evolve to defend itself against."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... o-extinct/


Wild bananas aren't really edible except for freak mutations, with a few exceptions (most have lots of large seeds, for example). Banana agriculture is very wacky. There are entire foundations devoted to studying banana genetics and trying to breed bananas to at least save subsistence farmed bananas. Banana agriculture has a lot to answer for, but degrading wild diversity probably isn't even on the list.

I find it vastly amusing that a lot of the creationist crowd likes to use the commercial banana as an example of how perfect God's creations are. Kirk Cameron has a video floating around on YouTube.

I didn't mean to derail this thread. Everybody should read the banana book! It was science, sociology, history, anthropology and more all rolled into one book. Parts were truly shocking.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1260005.Banana

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:03 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
Everybody should read the banana book!


I’m actually pretty amazed at the all-bananas-are-the-same thing. I’m fatally allergic to bananas, an allergy I developed in my teens. The fact that there is no biodiversity in bananas no doubt contributed to that!

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:34 pm 
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LW - I second the banana book rec. I read it some time back and it was great!


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:41 pm 
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Tigon wrote:
Loss of genetic diversity due to capitalism is making foods vulnerable

Is it really just capitalism causing that, or a wider mentality?

lavawitch wrote:
Actually, bananas going extinct isn't really our fault. The variety we eat was selectively breed and have limited to no resistance to disease since there is no genetic diversity; our food bananas are basically clones of each other. There are plentiful wild varieties.

Can't say I've ever seen or known of more than one or two kinds of bananas now that I think about it. o_O

lavawitch wrote:
Wild bananas aren't really edible except for freak mutations, with a few exceptions (most have lots of large seeds, for example).

I did not know that. I can't really imagine a banana with seeds. o.O

lavawitch wrote:
I find it vastly amusing that a lot of the creationist crowd likes to use the commercial banana as an example of how perfect God's creations are.

It's quite funny even if you don't know what we've done to them.

Actually, anytime, anyone, anywhere, holds up a banana and presents it as a grand solution is funny.

Jill wrote:
Overpopulation

Oh yeah, that's a big one. I wonder though, does anyone think that our modern and much more casual approach to sex nowadays is harmful? We all know condoms are never any guarantee to prevent pregnancy, but I frequently hear about them failing which leads me to believe that they encourage users through a false sense of security. Abortion is obviously a much more definitive answer to pregnancy, but it bothers me that such an extreme solution is considered so lightly by some. I've heard, "Well, if I get pregnant, I'll just get an abortion." which worries me for a few reasons, not the least of which being the even-more careless approach to sex.

Jill wrote:
Subjugation of women

By far a much smaller issue now than it's been in the past. I'm sure some could argue that Anti-Semitism, or Child Labor are bigger issues at this point, however are you including human trafficking as part of that topic too?

Jill wrote:
Zealotry/Fanaticism

Just a general Zealotry or Fanaticism? Does that encompass Twilight Fangirls or Xbox DudeBros?

I'm sure many of the topics we cover can be traced back to a specific human tendency, Capitalism being Greed, for instance, but I'd like to home in on specific topics and draw parallels from there.

Jill wrote:
Unregulated capitalism in general, and specifically industries not held responsible for their true costs

Another vote for Capitalism. Or "unregulated" Capitalism. I think most unregulated industries fall into Capitalism at one point or another. It's generally only obvious an industry is unregulated when they attempted to exploit the limit of their leash at some point.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:55 am 
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Can we just say more humans and leave it at that?


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Omnizoa wrote:
Jill wrote:
Overpopulation

Oh yeah, that's a big one. I wonder though, does anyone think that our modern and much more casual approach to sex nowadays is harmful? We all know condoms are never any guarantee to prevent pregnancy, but I frequently hear about them failing which leads me to believe that they encourage users through a false sense of security. Abortion is obviously a much more definitive answer to pregnancy, but it bothers me that such an extreme solution is considered so lightly by some. I've heard, "Well, if I get pregnant, I'll just get an abortion." which worries me for a few reasons, not the least of which being the even-more careless approach to sex.

I don't see how our modern approach to sex has much to do with overpopulation?
Jill wrote:
Subjugation of women

Omnizoa wrote:
By far a much smaller issue now than it's been in the past. I'm sure some could argue that Anti-Semitism, or Child Labor are bigger issues at this point, however are you including human trafficking as part of that topic too?

The plight of girls and women is horrific in much of the world - or don't you think forced genital mutilation or child marriage is evil? And of course it would include child labor and trafficking as well. If females had more opportunities for education and just general control of their lives, and that of their families, the world would be dramatically more peaceful.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Omnizoa wrote:
Oh yeah, that's a big one. I wonder though, does anyone think that our modern and much more casual approach to sex nowadays is harmful? We all know condoms are never any guarantee to prevent pregnancy, but I frequently hear about them failing which leads me to believe that they encourage users through a false sense of security. Abortion is obviously a much more definitive answer to pregnancy, but it bothers me that such an extreme solution is considered so lightly by some. I've heard, "Well, if I get pregnant, I'll just get an abortion." which worries me for a few reasons, not the least of which being the even-more careless approach to sex.

Harmful in what ways? I can't think of any ways that voluntary access to birth control and abortion could be a bad thing, and the birth rate has gone down as contraception has become more available so clearly the world would be more populated without it.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:57 pm 
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strawberryrock wrote:
Omnizoa wrote:
Oh yeah, that's a big one. I wonder though, does anyone think that our modern and much more casual approach to sex nowadays is harmful? We all know condoms are never any guarantee to prevent pregnancy, but I frequently hear about them failing which leads me to believe that they encourage users through a false sense of security. Abortion is obviously a much more definitive answer to pregnancy, but it bothers me that such an extreme solution is considered so lightly by some. I've heard, "Well, if I get pregnant, I'll just get an abortion." which worries me for a few reasons, not the least of which being the even-more careless approach to sex.

Harmful in what ways? I can't think of any ways that voluntary access to birth control and abortion could be a bad thing, and the birth rate has gone down as contraception has become more available so clearly the world would be more populated without it.


Agreed, Srock.

Omnizoa, I do not agree with your assessment that access to birth control and abortion leads to a more "careless" attitude toward sex. I also disagree with your assessment of more openness and less inhibition about sex as "careless." Finally, I do not agree with your passing judgment on people who receive abortions in a manner you perceive to be "light." Your post quoted above reads as pretty shamey and judgey.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:26 pm 
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Also, I find the dismissal of women’s subjugation as basically offensive and somewhat gaslighty.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:12 pm 
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I've never heard anyone say if I get pregnant I'll just get an abortion. And even if they did, so what?

How is the subjugation of women a much smaller issue now? I'm not getting into oppression olympics but if you think women around the world are enjoying the same rights as men and are not victims of extreme violence, hatred, and prejudice, well tbh I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:20 pm 
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On a more academic note, you should define how you're deciding "worst". Come up with a metric, don't be so hand wavey. How are you going to measure animal exploitation vs human exploitation vs exploitation of the planet. Based on the greatest number of lives impacted? Also I would be mindful that ranking problems could be insensitive. For example, pitting antisemitism against child labor against misogyny. I don't see the merit of that argument.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:36 pm 
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I agree with corucopita.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:15 pm 
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Jill wrote:
I don't see how our modern approach to sex has much to do with overpopulation?

I was suggesting connections, but it was more of a maybe it does maybe it doesn't sort of approach.

Jill wrote:
The plight of girls and women is horrific in much of the world - or don't you think forced genital mutilation or child marriage is evil?

I think you're forgetting how many boys are circumcised at birth, but regardless, of course I do. I was simply asking if you were including such topics in your judgment.

Jill wrote:
If females had more opportunities for education and just general control of their lives, and that of their families, the world would be dramatically more peaceful.

I'll have to disagree with you there. Increasing female education or personal freedoms wouldn't resolve the core issue of sexism. And if sexism isn't addressed than I think you're focusing on relatively trivial topics. Equality in education, and employment, and any other kind of institution is absolutely necessary, no question, but I think these topics come second to the matters that you mentioned such as child marriage and genital mutilation. I'd throw in rape and human trafficking in there as well. If we want to be "dramatically" more peaceful, I think these issues should come first.

strawberryrock wrote:
Harmful in what ways? I can't think of any ways that voluntary access to birth control and abortion could be a bad thing, and the birth rate has gone down as contraception has become more available so clearly the world would be more populated without it.

If you're extending your view only so far as overpopulation, than perhaps you're right, but I was considering the social and moral implications as well.

jordanpattern wrote:
Omnizoa, I do not agree with your assessment that access to birth control and abortion leads to a more "careless" attitude toward sex.

It was merely an extrapolation. When I ask people about the risks of having sex, they often cite those as reasons they aren't concerned.

jardanpattern wrote:
Finally, I do not agree with your passing judgment on people who receive abortions in a manner you perceive to be "light." Your post quoted above reads as pretty shamey and judgey.

"Shamey" was absolutely not my intention, but "judgey" is the entire point of the thread. You can't make decisions or come to logical conclusions without making judgments, and I specified that these are manmade problems, so by nature of the topic we WILL be judging people.

As for referring to people's "light" approach to abortion, I think that's an awful tame assessment to take offense to. If abortion is really such a non-issue to you, then I guess I'm just inclined to disagree. I understand that there are circumstances that warrant abortion, but I also understand that there are often circumstances where abortion does more harm than good. I think people treat the topic overly lightly by dancing between the extremes of "It should always be acceptable" or "it should never be acceptable".

My particular views on the topic are, since I'm vegan, I put a great amount of weight on the value of sentience, and since we don't know when sentience develops in babies, it isn't safe to assume that we aren't doing harm by simply okaying abortion at any given point in a 9 month pregnancy.

Though, to take a broader view, personally, I think abortion would scarcelessly be a topic if people simply didn't have sex if they didn't want a child.

You can tell me that's being unrealistic, or we need sex, or whatever else, I'm sure I've heard it before, but that's what it comes down to for me. I understand most people don't hold this sort of position on the topic, it's usually portrayed as a battle between women's rights and religious tradition, but I think that's an overly simplified view of the subject.

That's my opinion, it wasn't meant to rile any feathers, but I suppose it's safer to put it out there than squat on the fence trying not to offend anybody.

~Sz wrote:
Also, I find the dismissal of women’s subjugation as basically offensive and somewhat gaslighty.

I'm not sure what "gaslighty" means in this context, but I didn't dismiss it. I merely questioned it's significance in comparison to the other topics we've brought up. "Questioned" as in "sought to learn more", not "Questioned" as in "doubted".

couroupita wrote:
I've never heard anyone say if I get pregnant I'll just get an abortion.

I have.

couroupita wrote:
And even if they did, so what?

If one person believes something, it stands to reason that it's believed by more than one person which carries implications for the group as a whole.

couroupita wrote:
How is the subjugation of women a much smaller issue now?

I seriously fail to see why anyone is taking issue with this statement. Are you saying women were better off in say... the 1920s?

I think it's pretty fair to say that gender equality, even if absorbed as a worldwide average, has been improving with the decades.

couroupita wrote:
I'm not getting into oppression olympics but if you think women around the world are enjoying the same rights as men and are not victims of extreme violence, hatred, and prejudice, well tbh I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

( -_-)... I don't know how I'd respond to that either. Let me know when someone actually says that.

couroupita wrote:
On a more academic note, you should define how you're deciding "worst". Come up with a metric, don't be so hand wavey. How are you going to measure animal exploitation vs human exploitation vs exploitation of the planet. Based on the greatest number of lives impacted?

That would be a poor metric considering that you could affect a whole buss full of people with a sneeze, and call that more harmful than murdering someone.

Severity should be considered, but truthfully, it's practically impossible to compare except when you're working with such extremes. I could argue that Animal Exploitation is the biggest issue considering how many billions it's affected, how severely they're affected, and how long they've been affected in such a way. But it could be argued that that Global Warming is the biggest potential issue, if we had reason to believe the planet's going to go all Day After Tomorrow on us anytime now.

couroupita wrote:
Also I would be mindful that ranking problems could be insensitive. For example, pitting antisemitism against child labor against misogyny. I don't see the merit of that argument.

Saying I had a bad day at work could be insensitive to someone with a hangnail, but that's hardly a reason not to say it. It would be biased to place vested priority in a subject that personally affects us when we could attempt to measure each subject objectively. Getting mugged on a street corner could mean the world to you in the moment, but there are obviously people worse off. It's not meant to be a competition, as you said, "the oppression olympics", just because a certain topic isn't one of the biggest in the world doesn't make it any less important than it already is.

That said, my priority to figure out the 6 most significant issues we face, not necessarily order them. Ranking is still necessary to determine which 6, but if I merely collect a handful of problems I may not have thought of, I would still consider this thread a success.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:49 pm 
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I personally enjoy sex and don't see why that's a social or moral problem.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:41 am 
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DLC that doesn't add value
Early access survival games that all look the same and never get finished
Kickstarter failures
Star Citizen
Unskippable cutscenes
Trade escrow

edit: forgot "No FOV slider", so I guess I'll ditch Kickstarter failures.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:51 am 
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Seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are The 6 Worst Manmade Problems In the World?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:54 am 
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Yeah seriously. Some people get motion sick at anything less than 90 fov. I think that's a little worse than some dumb jerks losing money on Kickstarter!


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