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 Post subject: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:38 am 
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Saggy Butt
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The story about American dentist poaching that Lion in Zimbabwe is making me sick. I don't understand how people can justify killing sentient creatures just for sport and still think they are decent human beings. I also don't understand how people can be so angry about one lion being killed, yet not give a fork about thousands of animals being tortured and killed in factory farming processes.

I am so sick of people sucking.


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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:25 am 
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i am finding it really upsetting. i hate scrolling through social media and seeing pics of the dentist grinning with his dead 'trophies'. vice did an article on how his business is basically ruined and how people flooded his yelp with bad reviews and *warning if you go there* the yelp page has been plastered with gory hunting pics - including one of cecil post skinning/beheading.

i was having similar feels about a string of people posting about leaving dogs in cars - and i dunno, logically if you think that is bad you should also consider animals in transport trucks equally abhorrent- but if i point that out, i'm being the crazy militant vegan.


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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:20 am 
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Yeah, these stories normally make me angry but this one just killed me. And I am massively pissed off that he now "regrets" it. Not because he killed a lion but because he killed a well liked lion and is getting shiitake for it.

I don't understand what the fork is wrong with someone that their hobby is hunting animals for trophies. As I said on Facebook, if they were hunting neighbourhood cats, we would assume they were a forking psychopath.

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:39 am 
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matwinser wrote:
As I said on Facebook, if they were hunting neighbourhood cats, we would assume they were a forking psychopath.


I hadn't thought of it that way, but that resonates with me. Thanks for sharing!

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:17 am 
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It's weird isn't it? I think hunting gets validated and romanticised as 'noble' or 'traditional' or something whereas hunting pets doesn't have that mass behind it.

It would be the same if someone slit a chicken's throat in the street, people would lose their shiitake but do it en masse in a building built for purpose and no problem at all.

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:01 am 
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It's an upsetting story no matter who did it.

And... a dentist. I'm imagining it being one of my former classmates (it's not). Embarrassing to the profession.


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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:38 am 
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At least my former classmates are condemning it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:51 am 
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I have been trying to avoid social media posts on the topic because it's awful. I have only seen condemnations, and I am actually surprised by the emphatic vocabulary chosen. I've seen people (omnis) refer to Cecil's killing as murder and assassination. The same people would never use these words to talk about the killing of shelter pets, let alone farm animals. It's bizarre.


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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:27 am 
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matwinser wrote:
Yeah, these stories normally make me angry but this one just killed me. And I am massively pissed off that he now "regrets" it. Not because he killed a lion but because he killed a well liked lion and is getting shiitake for it.

I don't understand what the fork is wrong with someone that their hobby is hunting animals for trophies. As I said on Facebook, if they were hunting neighbourhood cats, we would assume they were a forking psychopath.

Mat.


I saw the "regret" statement.

It was one of those typical no blame statements - "I regret that the pursuit of an activity I enjoy resulted in the taking of this animals life"

No "I'm sorry", no "I did a bad thing" just "I was doing what I liked, and somehow the lion ended up dead, don't look at me"

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:34 am 
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My Twitter feed has been full of outraged comments about this the last few days. What really annoys me is how many people say it is disgusting that a "beautiful" and "much-loved" animal has been killed for fun, as though it's fine to cause suffering if the animal doesn't happen to be those things. Plus of course most of these people aren't even vegetarian, let alone vegan!

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:34 am 
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Yes, very odd. Like he is pretending that he had no idea that hunting an animal and shooting it, would result in killing it.

People are odd.

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:34 am 
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aelle wrote:
I have been trying to avoid social media posts on the topic because it's awful. I have only seen condemnations, and I am actually surprised by the emphatic vocabulary chosen. I've seen people (omnis) refer to Cecil's killing as murder and assassination. The same people would never use these words to talk about the killing of shelter pets, let alone farm animals. It's bizarre.


This exactly!


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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:37 am 
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According to the BBC:

"Separately, court records have shown that the dentist has a felony record in the US after killing a black bear in the state of Wisconsin in 2006.

He was given a one-year probation and fined $3,000 (£1,900), having shot the animal outside an authorised zone and then trying to pass it off as having been killed elsewhere.

Records from the Minnesota Board of Dentistry also show that Mr Palmer was the subject of a sexual harassment complaint which was settled in 2006.

A receptionist alleged that he had made indecent comments to her. Mr Palmer admitted no wrongdoing and agreed to pay out more than $127,000 (£81,000)."

He is a class act.

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:34 am 
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Imogen wrote:
My Twitter feed has been full of outraged comments about this the last few days. What really annoys me is how many people say it is disgusting that a "beautiful" and "much-loved" animal has been killed for fun, as though it's fine to cause suffering if the animal doesn't happen to be those things. Plus of course most of these people aren't even vegetarian, let alone vegan!

I'm glad I haven't seen much about it on FB for this reason! This is also how I feel when I see my facebook feed clogged up with pictures of ricky gervais and whatever animal cause he is angry about that day, as he eats a hamburger. Usually posted by outraged omnivores. Gah.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:55 am 
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I was going to post on the Facebook Awkwardness thread, but then I found this one!

My young cousin (18 years old) is planning to study zoology at university and he has been outraged by this event - rightly so, of course. But he's been saying ridiculous things, like how animal cruelty gets to him more than human cruelty, and that this is the reason he's chosen his degree, so he "can protect animals from humans". But he eats meat! I replied to his post, agreeing that the murder of Cecil is outrageous and saying that "there are other examples of animal cruelty much closer to home, the farming industry is about as cruel as it gets." He hasn't replied.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:33 am 
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Of course since I posted earlier about 6 stories about it have popped up in my FB feed. Made the mistake of reading the comments on a couple :/

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:39 am 
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My smart, thoughtful partner - he rarely posts here, but his PPK handle is voiceofraisin - and I spent a lot of time talking about this horrible, enraging, heartbreaking story, and the irony/incongruity of people expressing anger, outrage, pity, grief, etc. at the wanton, brutal death of one animal, when they blithely disregard the miserable lives and deaths of the billions of animals they marinate, cook, order, and eat. (Not to mention the cringeworthy post-colonial detail - which has thus far been largely elided - of a Zimbabwean lion named Cecil being shot for sport/fun by a wealthy, western white man. GAAAH.) Anyway, my partner did a far better job of articulating both of our feelings than I can, so I'll just quote his remarks in full.
voiceofraisin wrote:
A number of my friends have posted expressing anger and outrage at the killing of Cecil the lion, and a number of others have posted expressing frustration at the contradiction or irony of angrily mourning the death of one animal while causing the unnecessary deaths of many others (to eat them). I definitely feel both.

Everything about Dr Walt Palmer's killing of Cecil - the colonialist framework, the 50 grand he laid out to do it, the fact that he failed to kill the lion with an arrow shot and tracked the weakened animal for two days before he or one of his guides killed it with a rifle, his shit-eating grin as he poses with his trophies - will generate outrage in most people with any compassion at all. It's worth pointing out that commercial trophy hunting for high-status animals is very common in many countries, and maybe some of that anger can be channeled into fighting that practice. Also, the fact that the animal had a name, given to him by humans, put a public face on him, and he symbolized conservation efforts in Zimbabwe and elsewhere. [Parenthetically, I haven't seen much commentary on the fact that because he was found at a watering hole called Magisihole Pan ("White Man's Watering Hole"), he and his brother Leander were named after two master colonizers, Cecil Rhodes and Leander Starr Jameson.] The case became very public because of Cecil's fame, and even more public and personalized after the identity of the killer was revealed. The symbolism is explicit and heavy (the colonial fantasy, the pleasure in killing, the macho display of a trophy). The most common response to this overdetermined act is also explicit and heavy (I suspect I have very few friends who don't want to punch the great white hunter in the face). Cecil is remembered as an individual with a grievable life.

By way of comparison, consider only industrial scale meat production, which provides well over 95% of the meat in North America. The mechanized cruelty of this large-scale system is well-known to anyone who has looked into it, but it is largely a hidden tragedy. The ethical questions of cruel treatment and environmental damage are less easily symbolized or blazoned, and the sheer scale (well over 50 billion land animals slaughtered each year) makes it difficult to take in and, paradoxically, easier to ignore. To most people, food animals are not seen as individuals, or as grievable. But it does generate a lot of emotions in a lot of people - anger, guilt, defiance, or resignation, depending on where you're at - and will continue to do so. I don't know that comparing either the quantity or the quality of these two situations is going to be rhetorically effective in helping anyone think more carefully about animal killing. I personally see some commonalities between the two situations: Dr Walt Palmer plays the big man in a very obvious way, but to me, the exploitation of the powerless by the powerful is at the bottom of them both. But whatever people think about Cecil and Walt Palmer, I hope this situation will help them look more broadly and think about some of the underlying issues of animal killing.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:44 am 
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One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:46 am 
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Hey, I don't know how this Twitter business works, but what about this hashtag, to point up the absurdity of the difference a name means?

#NameThemAll

Along with pictures of farm animals arbitrarily given names.

Did I just do it? Did I make the world a better place?

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:49 am 
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FootFace wrote:
Hey, I don't know how this Twitter business works, but what about this hashtag, to point up the absurdity of the difference a name means?

#NameThemAll

Along with pictures of farm animals arbitrarily given names.

Did I just do it? Did I make the world a better place?
OMG, Footface - you just fixed the universe!

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:52 am 
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Get on this, people who do Twitter!

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:04 am 
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I went through something similar to this on another forum where someone posted an article about a guy killing a puppy basically because of some emotional issue of his. I don't remember the details exactly but it was a dude with anger issues that felt like killing the puppy for "reasons" and he very swiftly dispatched it with some type of implement. Posters were outraged that the guy faced no charges because the manner by which the puppy was killed is considered by law a humane method. The majority premise then became that because the guy killed it to get his rocks off it should be considered criminal. I argued, to no avail, that under such proposed terms (killing for self satisfaction/gluttony) a whole lot of killing would be illegal. In other words no more BBQ.

They didn't buy my argument...never will.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:19 am 
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I don't even know why this story destroyed me. Normally I get angry rather than sad but it was this detail that completely did me over this morning:

Spoiler: show
The news was reporting that he had 6 cubs which the other male lion in the pride will now kill to encourage the females to mate with him. It just made me think about my boys and girls and someone hunting/killing them and just undid me


Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:25 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
Hey, I don't know how this Twitter business works, but what about this hashtag, to point up the absurdity of the difference a name means?

#NameThemAll

Along with pictures of farm animals arbitrarily given names.

I was thinking the same thing. I've been using #cecilthecow and #cecilthepig


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 Post subject: Re: Cecil the lion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:28 pm 
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This story has seriously made me angry for a number of reasons. It's not even the killing of the lion which is obviously awful but it's the fact that he, a wealthy white man of power, took advantage of an economical situation and completely disregarded not only a life, but an entire country/government and all of the people who visit Cecil. He knowingly paid money to gain access to an animal he knew was loved, protected and difficult to get to. Then he lured it out of its protective area, injured it and let it bleed for a whole day and then killed it and more (I don't want to rehash all of the details on here), then tried to hide the GPS tracker. It reeks of entitlement and privilege. I don't know if I'm conveying my feelings about this well enough but that's what I can manage to get out right now.

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