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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:45 pm 
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For some reason this thread plus the most recent season of the Big C popped in my head. A major guest character was some anti-cancer advocate and insisted people gave themselves cancer by being negative. She also had a contract that only allowed her to be seen drinking green juice in public. I think she was a great caricature of ALL the mega famous "health gurus" out there, vegan or otherwise (she was not vegan, for the record).


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Quote:
I'd say whatever and go on to eat my noochy kale.


for square vegans that do not fit into the round vegan hole labels can be an important issue. and there are quite a few more square vegans thanks to the tireless efforts of people like essylsten and barnard. so when others accuse doctors that i respect of being flexitarians or health-claim snake-oil pedallers...i have something to say.

and before i fade away into the ether, a little more on the term "plant-based" from some fellow vegans:

http://vegansaurus.com/post/24554474211

Quote:
I don't understand either side. I'm vegan, though more and more often, I find myself calling it 'plant based' just to avoid controversy. I'm sick of the holier than though vegans.

I often go with "Plant-Based" for this reason too. Just to have some peace in my life. I get judgement thrown my way from both sides, supposedly "perfect vegans"

You called it. Spot on, my plant based friend. I do the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Barnard lost my respect when he started fat shaming.

I'm a very round vegan, if you know what I mean. Apparently some vegans won't accept me due to my roundness and they can kiss my asparagus.

And I should say it is one reason I like the ppk. I don't think I'd survive in other vegan communities. I don't want to be vegan policed and don't want the people around who think that vegan means skinny or if you are fat, it means your diet is filled with cookies and cupcakes.

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Last edited by linanil on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:57 pm 
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The issue is not whatever the hell plant based, plant feet, plant head, means; the issue was the horrible video that Vegsource posted. It ties into the general fat hate and horribleness promoted by Barnard in particular.

You can try to derail it into a pile of pedantry all you want. Body shaming is a miserable way to promote veganism.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:04 pm 
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linanil wrote:
And I should say it is one reason I like the ppk. I don't think I'd survive in other vegan communities. I don't want to be vegan policed and don't want the people around who think that vegan means skinny or if you are fat, it means your diet is filled with cookies and cupcakes.

Amen. I actually really doubt that there is any online vegan community that manages to refrain from body-shaming like (almost all) of us do on the PPK. Let's keep it that way!


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
Body shaming is a miserable way to promote veganism.

yes yes yes yes times a million.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:17 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
And they don't call themselves vegan. Stop making it out like i'm trying to insult them or be the vegan police by pointing out something that people admit freely and even try to push away from. I did not say anything like 'these crassholes aren't even vegan'.


I'm just going to quote myself instead of repeating the same forking thing over and over.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:27 pm 
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vijita wrote:
linanil wrote:
And I should say it is one reason I like the ppk. I don't think I'd survive in other vegan communities. I don't want to be vegan policed and don't want the people around who think that vegan means skinny or if you are fat, it means your diet is filled with cookies and cupcakes.

Amen. I actually really doubt that there is any online vegan community that manages to refrain from body-shaming like (almost all) of us do on the PPK. Let's keep it that way!

back when vegancooking and veganpeople were in their heyday on livejournal, we tried to keep it to a minimum.

for obvious reasons, they attracted pro-ana posters (veganpeople more than vegancooking, since VC switched to moderated posting in 2005, and we wouldn't approve the obvious pro-ana posts.)

::edit:: and there was totally a community called "fat vegan" that was of course the most feel-good community.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:37 pm 
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And this is the depth of fatuousness from the plant-based Dr Fuhrman:
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/ne ... rance.html

Dr. Fuhrmam wrote:
Here is my point: Regardless of whether we are required to purchase medical insurance, know that we can only buy real health insurance in the produce section of the local supermarket.


Because really all you need to stay healthy is veggies. If you have high cholesterol, diabetes, cancer etc, its your own fault for not eating enough veggies. Because everyone knows vegans (except junk food vegans) don't ever get sick. If they do, then they weren't real vegans to begin with (or they were those disgusting junk food vegans).

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:23 pm 
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His take is pretty maddening for sure. I've used Eat to Live to successfully a bit of lose weight but I certainly didn't end up tossing my arthritis meds , as he states everyone does. At first it made me feel like I was doing it "wrong" and not eating healthy enough. Then I realized his claims where patently absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Eat to Live was what I started out with and in general it is my guiding principle for weight loss/maintenance. Beans and veggies. Whenever I have trouble, I go back to that. Beans, veggies and some fruits and limited starch/fat.

The maddening part is its not working anymore. I've been to the doctor, twice. I'm eating well and getting exercise but nothing is helping.

If these people knew what it was like to struggle with weight all your life, they wouldn't talk crepe about people.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:54 am 
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I was at a veggie meetup and I overheard someone say "junk food vegans" - I was really glad not to be part of that conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:22 pm 
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linanil wrote:
Eat to Live was what I started out with and in general it is my guiding principle for weight loss/maintenance. Beans and veggies. Whenever I have trouble, I go back to that. Beans, veggies and some fruits and limited starch/fat.

The maddening part is its not working anymore. I've been to the doctor, twice. I'm eating well and getting exercise but nothing is helping.



It's doing what Fuhrman *wanted* it to do - slow your metabolism down to a crawl so you *have* to eat much less just to maintain your current weight (whatever it may be). He says it like it's a good thing, that the faster your metabolism the faster your body deteriorates. Ah, I found this on his free blog: Slow metabolism linked to longevity

A few weeks/months ago he even posted on his (pay) forums that most women need only 1000 calories a day, and if they can survive on less, that's a good thing. Doesn't the World Health Organization say the average weight person needs a *minimum* of 1400 calories a day just for basic survival, to get the bare minimum of essential vitamins & minerals?


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:32 pm 
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veggiesue wrote:
linanil wrote:
Eat to Live was what I started out with and in general it is my guiding principle for weight loss/maintenance. Beans and veggies. Whenever I have trouble, I go back to that. Beans, veggies and some fruits and limited starch/fat.

The maddening part is its not working anymore. I've been to the doctor, twice. I'm eating well and getting exercise but nothing is helping.



It's doing what Fuhrman *wanted* it to do - slow your metabolism down to a crawl so you *have* to eat much less just to maintain your current weight (whatever it may be). He says it like it's a good thing, that the faster your metabolism the faster your body deteriorates. Ah, I found this on his free blog: Slow metabolism linked to longevity

A few weeks/months ago he even posted on his (pay) forums that most women need only 1000 calories a day, and if they can survive on less, that's a good thing. Doesn't the World Health Organization say the average weight person needs a *minimum* of 1400 calories a day just for basic survival, to get the bare minimum of essential vitamins & minerals?


What the forking fork? Promoting throwing your body into starvation mode? That's totally forked.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:38 pm 
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linanil wrote:
If these people knew what it was like to struggle with weight all your life, they wouldn't talk crepe about people.


That is so true!

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Quote:
The issue is not whatever the hell plant based, plant feet, plant head, means

Code:
Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?

Q. E. forking D.

Quote:
shaming is a miserable way to promote veganism

what about negative stereotyping and character assassination?


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Website called "Disease Proof?" Total fail.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:31 pm 
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That's it.

*flounce*

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:00 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
And they don't call themselves vegan. Stop making it out like i'm trying to insult them or be the vegan police by pointing out something that people admit freely and even try to push away from. I did not say anything like 'these crassholes aren't even vegan'.


I'm just going to quote myself instead of repeating the same forking thing over and over.

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Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:00 pm 
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supercarrot wrote:
vijita wrote:
linanil wrote:
And I should say it is one reason I like the ppk. I don't think I'd survive in other vegan communities. I don't want to be vegan policed and don't want the people around who think that vegan means skinny or if you are fat, it means your diet is filled with cookies and cupcakes.

Amen. I actually really doubt that there is any online vegan community that manages to refrain from body-shaming like (almost all) of us do on the PPK. Let's keep it that way!

back when vegancooking and veganpeople were in their heyday on livejournal, we tried to keep it to a minimum.

for obvious reasons, they attracted pro-ana posters (veganpeople more than vegancooking, since VC switched to moderated posting in 2005, and we wouldn't approve the obvious pro-ana posts.)

::edit:: and there was totally a community called "fat vegan" that was of course the most feel-good community.


Vegan Represent and at least one of its spin-offs also had/have basically zero fat-shaming. I understand that there are vegan forums out there that have a lot of fat shaming, but I've never actually stumbled on any of them. I'd guess that there is less of that among the "practicing vegan" world where people really come in all shapes and sizes and are in it for the long haul and for the animals than there is among the less seasoned crowd.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
Only vegans on the internet care about the definition of vegan.


This is a rather strange thing to say. I am a vegan in real life and I really care about the definition of vegan. I care because I am so happy that there are more and more actually vegan options out there in the world and I want to be able to be a consumer in the real world and know what I'm buying. I don't want to buy "vegan" stuff that has fish in it or honey in it or milk in it or whatever, because I actually care about not consuming those things, not wearing those things, not putting those things on my face, etc., because I care about avoiding those things the same way I care about not committing willful harm to people. I also don't want people who are trying to be nice to me and take care of me to not get what that entails because they know 10 "vegans" who "eat fish occasionally." It's just forking annoying to constantly compete against that. In the same way when I was just kosher I wanted kosher to mean something, I want vegan to mean something. I don't really think that's so much to ask and even if language evolves, there are concepts that stay pretty much the same over long periods of time and there's nothing wrong with trying to create consistency in the use of a term, especially one that is used by so few people. I often say I'm "animal product free" if pressed, because people don't understand what vegan is even if they know tons of "vegans."


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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:22 am 
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and it's also possible that vegans without access to the internet are unaware of the dilution of the term.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:18 am 
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From the age perspective many of these people appear to be in same age range. I imagine many of the people who are thinner may also exercise. Either way the video is not helpful. It perpetuates a stereotype and false hope that if you eat vegan you will be skinny. There are plenty of vegan meals that are high calorie and rich and will pack on the pounds. You have eat intelligently (for your health, animals and the earth) but know the calories, the fat intake and have a reasonable portion size. Otherwise you will be overweight regardless of what you eat.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
Vantine wrote:
Only vegans on the internet care about the definition of vegan.


This is a rather strange thing to say. I am a vegan in real life and I really care about the definition of vegan. I care because I am so happy that there are more and more actually vegan options out there in the world and I want to be able to be a consumer in the real world and know what I'm buying. I don't want to buy "vegan" stuff that has fish in it or honey in it or milk in it or whatever, because I actually care about not consuming those things, not wearing those things, not putting those things on my face, etc., because I care about avoiding those things the same way I care about not committing willful harm to people. I also don't want people who are trying to be nice to me and take care of me to not get what that entails because they know 10 "vegans" who "eat fish occasionally." It's just forking annoying to constantly compete against that. In the same way when I was just kosher I wanted kosher to mean something, I want vegan to mean something. I don't really think that's so much to ask and even if language evolves, there are concepts that stay pretty much the same over long periods of time and there's nothing wrong with trying to create consistency in the use of a term, especially one that is used by so few people. I often say I'm "animal product free" if pressed, because people don't understand what vegan is even if they know tons of "vegans."

What I really mean is that most people out there in the world could care less about the minutae of the definition. Arguing about the use of the word itself doesn't seem to be really productive as far as I am concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does 'plant based' always have to equal fat hate?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Sophiagrt wrote:
You have eat intelligently (for your health, animals and the earth) but know the calories, the fat intake and have a reasonable portion size. Otherwise you will be overweight regardless of what you eat.


You also have to accept that weight is trickier than all this and you can watch calories, fat, portions, and exercise and still be overweight.

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A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


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