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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:14 am 
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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linanil wrote:
I can't speak for numbers, but honestly, I only believe a small subset of Christians believe the bible is literally true and not full of metaphors and what not. They just seem to be the loudest ones out there. So I think there are a lot of people who believe in God/higher being/something else who also believe evolution was the method.


The answer is 31% of all Americans believe that "the Bible is the actual word of God to be taken literally, word for word." Also, Gallup polls have consistently found that about 44% of US adults believe that human beings were created directly by God in their present form less than 10,000 years ago, and according to a recent Pew Forum poll, 41% also believe Jesus will return before 2050.

In a lot of these polls, there's a dramatic split between income and education levels, so if you've been lucky enough to grow up among and associate with educated, middle class folk, those numbers may seem insane. On the other hand, if you're from my family...

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:15 am 
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I read an article yesterday about these cognitive psychologists who found that when people believe something but have a sliver of doubt they are more likely to be really loud about it and try and convince other's of their belief http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/19/when-in-doubt-shout-%E2%80%93-why-shaking-someone%E2%80%99s-beliefs-turns-them-into-stronger-advocates/

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:37 am 
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I wish I could remember which article and where, but I read an article about Sarah Palin once in which the author stated that she (Palin) doesn't not understand the scientific method, she simply doesn't realize that it exists.

I believe this is true for a certain percentage of people I meet, including some of my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:41 am 
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RiotSquirrrrrrrel wrote:
Oh no! Are you going to be stuck in the car with her talking her crazy creationist talk every day?


I only ride with her a couple days a week, and no, she's no preacher. The problem yesterday was that I stupidly brought up Christine O'Donnell not knowing what the First Amendment says. One thing led to another.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:47 am 
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whichsarah wrote:
you people who only know one or two creationists confuse me.


For real. Of course, I live in Alabama (incidentally the only place where I've ever heard "I'm a Christian" used as a pick-up line), so take that for what it's worth.

Fortunately, I don't know anyone personally who has backyard chickens, creationist or not. (The people, not the chickens.)


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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:59 am 
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hoveringdog wrote:
linanil wrote:
I can't speak for numbers, but honestly, I only believe a small subset of Christians believe the bible is literally true and not full of metaphors and what not. They just seem to be the loudest ones out there. So I think there are a lot of people who believe in God/higher being/something else who also believe evolution was the method.


The answer is 31% of all Americans believe that "the Bible is the actual word of God to be taken literally, word for word." Also, Gallup polls have consistently found that about 44% of US adults believe that human beings were created directly by God in their present form less than 10,000 years ago, and according to a recent Pew Forum poll, 41% also believe Jesus will return before 2050.

In a lot of these polls, there's a dramatic split between income and education levels, so if you've been lucky enough to grow up among and associate with educated, middle class folk, those numbers may seem insane. On the other hand, if you're from my family...


Thanks for ruining my theory. I grew up in a Catholic family, not middle class, high school education for older generations but most of my generation and some of my mom's generation went to college or had some level of education beyond high school. Although Catholics have their own issues, Catholics don't believe that the bible should be taken literally, as far as I know. Maybe that is why born agains don't like Catholics, who knows.

My husband also said recently he has seen a lot more "Jesus is coming" bumper stickers. He knows little of religion so I told him "Jesus has been coming for 2000 years, people always believe Jesus is coming but Jesus aint coming".

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:11 am 
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Shy Mox wrote:
But its too easy to disprove evolution!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCiStLKzivM

Have you ever seen snails try to escape from the wrath of an all loving god?


I quit listening after "Us true Christians don't care about facts.".
Because, really, isn't that why it is like talking to a tree?

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:48 am 
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Found it - it was an interview not an article:
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008 ... warcz.html

"If you are going to believe in creationism as she [Palin] literally does, she believes everything started 5,700 years ago, as is. If you're willing to believe that, that means you have set aside scientific evidence. It means that you do not believe in, or do not understand or do not know about, the fossil record and radiocarbon dating and the hundreds and hundreds of pieces of evidence that show that evolution is not a question of belief, evolution is as much a fact as that the world is round and that gravity exists."

Joe Schwarcz is director of McGill University's Office for Science and Society and a magician


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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:54 am 
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I didn't think I'd ever met a creationist. Then I realised my grandparents probably are. But they're old and adorable and they never try to convince me of anything! Oh and there was this friend of a cousin who was staying here with us who had a book called "Why Evolution is Wrong" or something like that. We never discussed it though.

Now here, have some Tim Minchin.

Tony the Fish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DXl68NF_uI

American Survey on Evolution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9uIMR8yCPg

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:13 pm 
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booberthefraggle wrote:
I don't get it, why don't they take credit for it? I mean, instead of saying "evolution is too elegant and logical, nooo god must have just magicked this shiitake out of thin air." they could say "holy shiitake, look how amazing our god is, he has set in motion a process that is simple and elegant and holy shiitake, look at the human eye, god's plan totally evolved that shiitake up in here, he was thinking ahead like woah"

p.s. I only know 2 creationists and they are both a little nutty.



They do, it's called "Intelligent Design" and it is just as bunk.


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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:29 pm 
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My dad married a fundamentalist and became one of these people. I think at first he started off just faking it to impress her (she could him she "couldn't love a man who didn't love god"), but somewhere along the way, he started to believe in it. We can't really talk about anything anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:02 pm 
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GuiltyofBeingSprite wrote:
booberthefraggle wrote:
I don't get it, why don't they take credit for it? I mean, instead of saying "evolution is too elegant and logical, nooo god must have just magicked this shiitake out of thin air." they could say "holy shiitake, look how amazing our god is, he has set in motion a process that is simple and elegant and holy shiitake, look at the human eye, god's plan totally evolved that shiitake up in here, he was thinking ahead like woah"

p.s. I only know 2 creationists and they are both a little nutty.



They do, it's called "Intelligent Design" and it is just as bunk.

That's what the Creation Museum believes in! And Coca-Cola.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:44 pm 
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I have only met one creationist in my life and that was when I was in school, which I feel makes me pretty lucky. However, I would say the majority of people I know buy into the Intelligent Design Theory.


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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Sarah-Jane wrote:
I have only met one creationist in my life and that was when I was in school, which I feel makes me pretty lucky. However, I would say the majority of people I know buy into the Intelligent Design Theory.

Same difference. http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/11 ... nk-cd.html


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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:09 pm 
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Hapax Legomenon wrote:
GuiltyofBeingSprite wrote:
booberthefraggle wrote:
I don't get it, why don't they take credit for it? I mean, instead of saying "evolution is too elegant and logical, nooo god must have just magicked this shiitake out of thin air." they could say "holy shiitake, look how amazing our god is, he has set in motion a process that is simple and elegant and holy shiitake, look at the human eye, god's plan totally evolved that shiitake up in here, he was thinking ahead like woah"

p.s. I only know 2 creationists and they are both a little nutty.



They do, it's called "Intelligent Design" and it is just as bunk.

That's what the Creation Museum believes in! And Coca-Cola.


Actually, the Creation Museum goes well beyond ID. ID is largely influenced by Michael Behe's work and usually doesn't posit much more than just the idea that there are certain "irreducibly complex" structures that couldn't have evolved (so the story goes) because they require multiple structures and processes to have emerged simultaneously for the whole to function, and any one of those would not confer a selection advantage on its own. Hence, he concludes, some intelligence must be at work. But he (and groups like the Discovery Institute) doesn't go for the whole young earth, flood-geology, dinosaurs-contemporary-with-mankind nonsense that organizations like the Creation Museum promote. Behe's work has been pretty conclusively demonstrated to be nonsense as well, but it's a different kind of nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:12 pm 
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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And, yes, as Chipmunk's link shows, ID has been used by old-school creationists to try and appear somewhat more respectable and creep in under the bullshiitake radar.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:28 pm 
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I don't think you can say that the Discovery Institute is religiously neutral. They might not be Young Earth Creationists, but they have been shown again and again not to be dispassionate searchers after truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:17 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
I don't think you can say that the Discovery Institute is religiously neutral.

I don't think I can either.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:04 pm 
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hoveringdog wrote:
FootFace wrote:
I don't think you can say that the Discovery Institute is religiously neutral.

I don't think I can either.


Okay then.

Glad we got that sorted out. Or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Chipmunk wrote:
Sarah-Jane wrote:
I have only met one creationist in my life and that was when I was in school, which I feel makes me pretty lucky. However, I would say the majority of people I know buy into the Intelligent Design Theory.

Same difference. http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/11 ... nk-cd.html


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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Imitation Of Chris wrote:
Glenn Beck came out as a creationist today on his radio show. He's "never seen a half-monkey/ half-man."

Does he understand how evolution works?

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:21 pm 
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B_A_D wrote:
Imitation Of Chris wrote:
Glenn Beck came out as a creationist today on his radio show. He's "never seen a half-monkey/ half-man."

Does he understand how evolution works?


Of course not. None of them do. All they know about it is the same caricature that's been peddled in right-wing circles forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 pm 
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I don't know that I know any creationists. But when I took Human Biological Evolution (biological. evolution. It's all in the class name, people!) some girl asked teacher, "But, how to Adam and Eve fit in then?" The teacher told her that Adam and Eve were a fairy tale and if the girl couldn't wrap her head around that, she should drop the class. And we never saw her again...

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:14 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
RiotSquirrrrrrrel wrote:
Oh no! Are you going to be stuck in the car with her talking her crazy creationist talk every day?


I only ride with her a couple days a week, and no, she's no preacher. The problem yesterday was that I stupidly brought up Christine O'Donnell not knowing what the First Amendment says. One thing led to another

this cracked me up! I had a crappy day, I needed that.

Also, this thread has reminded me not to bring up Christine O'Donnell work tomorrow, I'm sure all my coworkers love her.

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 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:29 am 
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monkeytoes wrote:
I don't know that I know any creationists. But when I took Human Biological Evolution (biological. evolution. It's all in the class name, people!) some girl asked teacher, "But, how to Adam and Eve fit in then?" The teacher told her that Adam and Eve were a fairy tale and if the girl couldn't wrap her head around that, she should drop the class. And we never saw her again...


That is funny. I am currently taking a Molecular Biology course and we discuss evolution at the molecular level. It is interesting to find out specifically how evolution comes about and the good/bad of genetic mutations.

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