| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:51 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 391 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:45 pm 
Offline
Has it on Blue Vinyl
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 2134
Location: 510
Live! Pay Per View! Blowhard vs. Blowhard!

http://www.lesherspeakerseries.org/hitchens_dsouza.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:46 pm 
Offline
rowdily playing checkers
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 3010
gobigblue1982 wrote:
if you openly admit that even undeniable proof of the Christian God would not lead you to love and worship Him than what on Earth would make me (or any rational person) think that you would be open-minded enough to consider any evidence?

Because the problem of evil is not a problem of insufficient evidence, but a problem of logic. An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God cannot be reconciled with the world we live in.

Maybe God does exist, but he has to do a hell of a lot more than exist to be worthy of veneration.

_________________
"Tits are inconsequential, but someone pass me that kitten" ~ papayapaprikás


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:48 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:02 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Spokane, WA
gobigblue1982 wrote:
here's a Q for all that will answer... if God came into your life and made Himself known to you in a way that would leave you with no doubt that He is real and that the doctrine of the Christ, the Trinity, etc. were authentic would you happily worship Him?


I would seek a qualified mental health professional and potentially large doses of haloperidol.

_________________
"All PPK gamers should put on their badge of shame right now. You will never leave the no-sex thread." - Vantine
"I'm so glad my prison of principles has wifi." - Abelskiver


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:49 pm 
Offline
Should Write a Goddam Book Already
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:10 pm
Posts: 1019
Location: East Tennessee!
Slaughtered? If you are judging based on who can tell the most jokes or show funny slides or get the audience full of people bussed in by the church riled up, probably.

_________________
Animals are my friends--and I don't eat my friends.
~ George Bernard Shaw


"God said, kill and eat!" ~ my grandmother


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:53 pm 
Offline
WELFARIST!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 5193
gobigblue1982 wrote:
here's a Q for all that will answer... if God came into your life and made Himself known to you in a way that would leave you with no doubt that He is real and that the doctrine of the Christ, the Trinity, etc. were authentic would you happily worship Him?

No. I'm still mad at Him for not making Me a trust fund baby. I mean, Paris Hilton gets to be one. what the fizzle?

_________________
"I'm sorry! I'm Canadian!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:59 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3612
Location: It's hot. All the time.
You guys can have Mumbles, I will keep H-Dog...


GoBigBlue, why do you keep tossing out Habermas? Bart Ehrman of UNC Chapel Hill is distinguished and one of the best known scholars on the New Testament. Why not use him? Oh fork, that's right - like many of the New Testament scholars I know, he's NOT A CHRISTIAN. You are picking and choosing which scholar you quote based simply upon whether or not they agree with you.

_________________
A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:02 pm 
Offline
Had sex with a vampire that sparkles.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:24 pm
Posts: 5407
Location: BRLA
And your football team is pretty shitty, so where's your god now?

_________________
The thing about this thread is, it's dumb. - IJDI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:03 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3612
Location: It's hot. All the time.
Also, early Christians (aka Jewish people) did not believe that Jesus was God. That's called polytheism and is against Jewish faith. We know for certain that Matthew was written with a Jewish Christian audience in mind.

_________________
A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:04 pm 
Offline
Waited in a line late at night for some stuff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Louisville(J-town), KY
gobigblue1982 wrote:
Hapax Legomenon wrote:
gobigblue1982 wrote:
here's a Q for all that will answer... if God came into your life and made Himself known to you in a way that would leave you with no doubt that He is real and that the doctrine of the Christ, the Trinity, etc. were authentic would you happily worship Him?

If God were real(notice I'm using the subjunctive to indicate a "present contrary to fact" conditional clause), and made himself known to me, and did something that made himself worth worshiping, I might consider it. Putting insignificant creatures in his terrarium[stellarium? universarium?] and watching us lead pointless and difficult lives isn't enough for me.
Now let me ask you something pointless and bizarre: if God came down to earth and told you to convert to Islam, would you do it?



1. you obviously do not understand the Christian faith. i would urge you to study further with an open mind.

2. assuming i had undeniable evidence that God were commanding me to do something I would gladly do it.

Which part don't I understand? The part where we don't matter next to God? The part where he created this place full of unhappiness that only improves through the concerted effort of human beings? The part where everyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant?

_________________
Aluistis ergo hoc incendium quo nunc ardetis.--Livy
Avatar courtesy of coldandsleepy and Avatar Charity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:04 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3612
Location: It's hot. All the time.
Fee wrote:
And your football team is pretty shitty, so where's your god now?

I will worship you, Fee.

_________________
A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:04 pm 
Offline
God-shaped Hole
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:35 pm
Posts: 56
folks,

since i am one of (most likely) a few Christians in this forum and this could continue until the universe grows cold, dilute, dark and dead as it runs down towards maximum entropy and heat death i am going to go ahead and throw in the towel...

in closing i will just say that i pray that all of you keep an open mind towards Christian faith and check out some apologetic books if you have not already. most importantly i pray that you call God into your life and see if He responds...

i am a fellow vegan and fellow animal lover. at least we can all agree on that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:05 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:02 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Spokane, WA
Vantine wrote:
GoBigBlue, why do you keep tossing out Habermas? Bart Ehrman of UNC Chapel Hill is distinguished and one of the best known scholars on the New Testament. Why not use him? Oh fork, that's right - like many of the New Testament scholars I know, he's NOT A CHRISTIAN. You are picking and choosing which scholar you quote based simply upon whether or not they agree with you.


Have you read God's Problem? It's not my favorite book of his as far as the more polemic content--he's obviously a lot stronger on textual criticism than he is branching out into more philosophical territory--but I really identified with the more autobiographical portions, where he talks about his transformation over the years from fundamentalism to a more liberal, academic Christianity to agnosticism. Worth reading.

_________________
"All PPK gamers should put on their badge of shame right now. You will never leave the no-sex thread." - Vantine
"I'm so glad my prison of principles has wifi." - Abelskiver


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:07 pm 
Offline
Waited in a line late at night for some stuff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Louisville(J-town), KY
Vantine wrote:
Fee wrote:
And your football team is pretty shitty, so where's your god now?

I will worship you, Fee.

But football doesn't matter. Basketball is the only true sport!

_________________
Aluistis ergo hoc incendium quo nunc ardetis.--Livy
Avatar courtesy of coldandsleepy and Avatar Charity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:08 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:02 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Spokane, WA
gobigblue1982 wrote:
folks,

since i am one of (most likely) a few Christians in this forum and this could continue until the universe grows cold, dilute, dark and dead as it runs down towards maximum entropy and heat death i am going to go ahead and throw in the towel...


I was just getting started! Well, it's been fun. Seriously, I do derive a certain perverse enjoyment from this sort of thing...

_________________
"All PPK gamers should put on their badge of shame right now. You will never leave the no-sex thread." - Vantine
"I'm so glad my prison of principles has wifi." - Abelskiver


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:09 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 1464
Welcome to the ppk bigblue! Not many people earn a custom subnick so quickly.

_________________
Like the beleaguered people of sub-Saharan Africa, I'll just go to Denny's. Solidarity!
-mumbles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:14 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19106
Location: Cliffbar NJ
I love this thread.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:22 pm 
Offline
God-shaped Hole
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:35 pm
Posts: 56
hoveringdog wrote:
gobigblue1982 wrote:
folks,

since i am one of (most likely) a few Christians in this forum and this could continue until the universe grows cold, dilute, dark and dead as it runs down towards maximum entropy and heat death i am going to go ahead and throw in the towel...


I was just getting started! Well, it's been fun. Seriously, I do derive a certain perverse enjoyment from this sort of thing...


1. looking back on some of my posts i apologize for throwing around words like idiot and ignorant. i haven't really been in "the message board scene" in years and kind of reverted back to bad habits from college days circa early 2000's.

2. i love this subject and i would go on forever but i would end up divorced and unemployed as i tend to continue this for hours...

3. i love this board and i own everything isa has ever written....

4. the faith in Christ I have is ultimately what has (in my mind) backed up my veganism. i believe that if Christ were alive today (physically) He would certainly frown upon the way that humans abuse and destroy animals for selfish gain.

i would wager that if some of you (atheists) and i (and my Christian brothers and sisters) could sit down and discuss these topics that we would come to a lot more agreement than typical in the anonymity of the web.

i know that many supposed followers of Christ have been either nominal or radical to a degree that has turned many non-believers away from the faith... i know that in my community of believers that we subscribe to the doctrine of self-sacrificial love, mission, compassion, giving, and grace in community. that is where i found God. the apologetic study has only helped me reason out what I know in my heart to be true.

if i could recommend 1 book for non-believers who would be open to read it would be "the reason for God" by tim keller.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:23 pm 
Offline
rowdily playing checkers
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 3010
gobigblue1982 wrote:
in closing i will just say that i pray that all of you keep an open mind towards Christian faith and check out some apologetic books if you have not already. most importantly i pray that you call God into your life and see if He responds...

I've already tried that, without notable effect, but I guess I appreciate the concern?

Quote:
i am a fellow vegan and fellow animal lover. at least we can all agree on that.

Yep!

You seem to like debates, so I'll recommend you check out Peter Singer's debate with Dinesh D'Souza. Pay particular attention to Singer's elucidation of the problem of animal suffering, and what it says about the Christian god, which should be troubling for anyone who cares about animals.

_________________
"Tits are inconsequential, but someone pass me that kitten" ~ papayapaprikás


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:25 pm 
Offline
God-shaped Hole
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:35 pm
Posts: 56
hoveringdog wrote:
Vantine wrote:
GoBigBlue, why do you keep tossing out Habermas? Bart Ehrman of UNC Chapel Hill is distinguished and one of the best known scholars on the New Testament. Why not use him? Oh fork, that's right - like many of the New Testament scholars I know, he's NOT A CHRISTIAN. You are picking and choosing which scholar you quote based simply upon whether or not they agree with you.


Have you read God's Problem? It's not my favorite book of his as far as the more polemic content--he's obviously a lot stronger on textual criticism than he is branching out into more philosophical territory--but I really identified with the more autobiographical portions, where he talks about his transformation over the years from fundamentalism to a more liberal, academic Christianity to agnosticism. Worth reading.


i've read none of his books but i've listened to his debates, heard podcasts, etc.

for the record i felt that craig had the MUCH stronger points in their debate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:29 pm 
Offline
God-shaped Hole
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:35 pm
Posts: 56
just mumbles wrote:
gobigblue1982 wrote:
in closing i will just say that i pray that all of you keep an open mind towards Christian faith and check out some apologetic books if you have not already. most importantly i pray that you call God into your life and see if He responds...

I've already tried that, without notable effect, but I guess I appreciate the concern?

Quote:
i am a fellow vegan and fellow animal lover. at least we can all agree on that.

Yep!

You seem to like debates, so I'll recommend you check out Peter Singer's debate with Dinesh D'Souza. Pay particular attention to Singer's elucidation of the problem of animal suffering, and what it says about the Christian god, which should be troubling for anyone who cares about animals.



1. i have heard that debate, and though i enjoy d'souza's work i also enjoy quite a bit of peter singer's work as well... though i obviously disagree w/ him on religion.

2. as far as "Christian God," animal suffering, etc. if we are referring to Old Testament that is a much longer thesis than i care to unpack in this thread but i understand why someone would think that sacrificing an animal would show that God doesn't care about animal suffering, but again it's a little deeper than that both theologically and philosophically. as far as New Testament i think Jesus would be a vegan if He lived in US today...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:55 pm 
Offline
rowdily playing checkers
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 3010
gobigblue1982 wrote:
if we are referring to Old Testament that is a much longer thesis than i care to unpack in this thread but i understand why someone would think that sacrificing an animal would show that God doesn't care about animal suffering, but again it's a little deeper than that both theologically and philosophically.

I'm referring to the typical (but not universal) Christian conception of God as good, and to the suffering of animals in nature, which most apologists don't even think about. Arguments about free will, or the fall, or spiritual responsibility don't apply to animals, so they apparently suffer to no good end. How elaborate does a theodicy have to get before we bite the bullet and say, "Well, maybe God just doesn't exist"?

Wittgenstein characterized philosophy as the process of untying the knots we create for ourselves, which expresses something important about how we ought to do philosophy. Apologists, meanwhile, are professional knot-makers.

_________________
"Tits are inconsequential, but someone pass me that kitten" ~ papayapaprikás


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:24 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3612
Location: It's hot. All the time.
hoveringdog wrote:
Vantine wrote:
GoBigBlue, why do you keep tossing out Habermas? Bart Ehrman of UNC Chapel Hill is distinguished and one of the best known scholars on the New Testament. Why not use him? Oh fork, that's right - like many of the New Testament scholars I know, he's NOT A CHRISTIAN. You are picking and choosing which scholar you quote based simply upon whether or not they agree with you.


Have you read God's Problem? It's not my favorite book of his as far as the more polemic content--he's obviously a lot stronger on textual criticism than he is branching out into more philosophical territory--but I really identified with the more autobiographical portions, where he talks about his transformation over the years from fundamentalism to a more liberal, academic Christianity to agnosticism. Worth reading.


Not yet. It's on my list of things to read. The problem of evil is one of my favorite theological quandaries and one which I believe that Christianity is particularly poor at explaining. I'm glad to hear that it's worth reading.

_________________
A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:25 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3612
Location: It's hot. All the time.
Ehrman is a favorite of the academic textual scholars I know.

_________________
A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:01 pm 
Offline
WRETCHED
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:54 pm
Posts: 8651
Location: Maryland/DC area
Vantine wrote:
Fee wrote:
And your football team is pretty shitty, so where's your god now?

I will worship you, Fee.


I will also worship Fee. Anybody else?

_________________
You are all a disgrace to vegans. Go f*ck yourselves, especially linanil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creationism Carpool
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:03 pm 
Offline
Had sex with a vampire that sparkles.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:24 pm
Posts: 5407
Location: BRLA
And you guys don't even know if I really exist or not. This god thing is easier than it sounds.

_________________
The thing about this thread is, it's dumb. - IJDI


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 391 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer