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 Post subject: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Will Hactivism bring about change? I'm not sure but something needs to be done.
http://mic.com/articles/95930/anonymous ... ign=social

I think Anonymous voices the frustration that people are feeling all over the US especially in Ferguson, MO right now. I think if nothing else, maybe someone will listen and understand that this is a much larger issue that needs to be addressed.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Well I'm glad someone is doing something! They made it a no-fly zone today! How can they even do that? And outlawed reporters! It's almost hard to believe. Almost.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Watching this unfold is so incredibly disturbing. The fact that it's just the latest in a long, long, long line of Black American men killed by authority figures under suspicious circumstances. The depressing expectation that his murderer will, like they often do, receive little to no punishment. And the chilling realization that rather than delicately restore relations with a shattered and terrified community, local law enforcement would rather double down on aggression by sending riot squads to a candlelight vigil and declaring a no-fly zone over the area. It's horrifying. And so few people see how horrifying this is, because they think these boys/men must have done something wrong, as if there's anything you can do to justify being shot in the back with your empty hands in the air.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:53 pm 
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LazySmurf wrote:
Well I'm glad someone is doing something! They made it a no-fly zone today! How can they even do that? And outlawed reporters! It's almost hard to believe. Almost.
This.
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Watching this unfold is so incredibly disturbing. The fact that it's just the latest in a long, long, long line of Black American men killed by authority figures under suspicious circumstances. The depressing expectation that his murderer will, like they often do, receive little to no punishment. And the chilling realization that rather than delicately restore relations with a shattered and terrified community, local law enforcement would rather double down on aggression by sending riot squads to a candlelight vigil and declaring a no-fly zone over the area. It's horrifying. And so few people see how horrifying this is, because they think these boys/men must have done something wrong, as if there's anything you can do to justify being shot in the back with your empty hands in the air.
And this. I cannot believe what is going on here; how can this even be happening?

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:12 pm 
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I just can't with this no fly zone.

So, the PD requested the FAA implement a no-fly zone because a police helicopter was supposedly shot at. Airtight logic already. However, the no-fly zone only applies to private helicopters, including news helicopters. Police choppers are still okay.

What.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Is this the same Anonymous group that was on twitter about Robin Williams' death? How they thought it was odd how his death was a distraction from Ferguson, how they didn't believe he had been depressed and were asking if other people thought maybe it wasn't a suicide? The same Anonymous group that is threatening to release 'info' about the police chief's daughter (which will serve what purpose?)? And the same group that has used homophobic slurs as insults on their twitter page?

I'm far more impressed by the local residents who are putting their own lives on the line while protesting out on the street and bringing attention to what happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:31 pm 
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I am also impressed with the local residents and appalled by the police response. I usually don't follow Anonymous so I don't really know how horrible they can be or have been in the past. Normally, I'm very uneasy about hactivism but thought it was interesting that they were trying to support the residents of Ferguson while I know many are feeling helpless.

I do hope that positive change is enacted in Ferguson after the dust clears and I hope that the police officers and police department will be brought to justice.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:31 pm 
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One of the defining characteristics of Anonymous is that it is a loosely contained group of individuals with no one leader or stance. There are shitty individuals in Anonymous who make shitty choices- I can't speak for the Robin Williams conspiracy theories (which are so ludicrous as to not even warrant a response) because I wasn't aware of them before. But I know that the person threatening to dox the police chief's daughter was called out by other members of Anonymous and retracted their threat.

I see how this and other aspects of Anonymous' organizational structure are problematic, but even with outliers like the ones mentioned, I think the overriding ethos of Anonymous is to bring justice to the powerless. The way some members choose to do that is, again, not okay, and should be addressed. But I do think Anonymous set a precedent in Steubenville in terms of how we treat marginalized victims of violence that can't be underestimated.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Nebraskalaska wrote:
I just can't with this no fly zone.

So, the PD requested the FAA implement a no-fly zone because a police helicopter was supposedly shot at. Airtight logic already. However, the no-fly zone only applies to private helicopters, including news helicopters. Police choppers are still okay.

What.


It seems like the police just wants license to do whatever they want with impunity/without scrutiny. When they were telling press to leave "because they were endangering lives" I just gave that whole thing a huge side eye. Especially since one of the officers was caught on tape calling the protesters animals.

Michael Brown's grandfather said that black kids out here might as well be walking around with targets on their backs. We need accountability, and if Anonymous is going to help advance that peacefully, I welcome it, especially if this behavior like this is endemic in the department: apparently there was an EEOC complaint filed against the St. Louis police department for racial profiling: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... fc9ba.html


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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:32 pm 
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linanil wrote:
I am also impressed with the local residents and appalled by the police response.

Looks like they have a large turnout this evening and tonight at a local church. I'm also seeing reports made and connected of other unarmed black men being shot in LA with protests planned, but nothing official yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:00 am 
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pandacookie wrote:
linanil wrote:
I am also impressed with the local residents and appalled by the police response.

Looks like they have a large turnout this evening and tonight at a local church. I'm also seeing reports made and connected of other unarmed black men being shot in LA with protests planned, but nothing official yet.


I went to look for the report in LA
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

All of it is just too damn depressing

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:35 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
One of the defining characteristics of Anonymous is that it is a loosely contained group of individuals with no one leader or stance. There are shitty individuals in Anonymous who make shitty choices- I can't speak for the Robin Williams conspiracy theories (which are so ludicrous as to not even warrant a response) because I wasn't aware of them before. But I know that the person threatening to dox the police chief's daughter was called out by other members of Anonymous and retracted their threat.

I see how this and other aspects of Anonymous' organizational structure are problematic, but even with outliers like the ones mentioned, I think the overriding ethos of Anonymous is to bring justice to the powerless. The way some members choose to do that is, again, not okay, and should be addressed. But I do think Anonymous set a precedent in Steubenville in terms of how we treat marginalized victims of violence that can't be underestimated.


Amen.

We can support an outside group taking action while also supporting the community members in Ferguson. We can also acknowledge that said group isn't perfect. It's not an either/or proposition. I imagine we want more people taking action on behalf of the folks in Ferguson, not less.

That said, I hope that Anonymous sticks to things like disabling the Ferguson PD website and maybe using their expertise to search for evidence of racist and unlawful police policies, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:05 am 
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I posted a link to this article on my FB feed earlier today: http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/americ ... 1620169913

The militarization of the police in many areas of the U.S. is what is terrifying for me. Gone are the days of the Mr. Rogers neighborhood cop who walks the streets and knows the people living there. Nowadays I am scared off by the combat boots and soldier-like appearance of the police, which indicates something more insidious, as the author posits in that article. I have some friends who are in police forces and they are good people, but as a force the police can be something so dangerous and scary.

In general, I support the good things Anonymous does, knowing it's not a structured organization with checks and balances so there are some wackos that try to do things in the name of it that aren't so great. I'm glad to see they are going to do something for the people of Ferguson. I just hope it's productive.

I also hope we can find out what really happened. Both accounts of the incident (from the friend and from the cop) seem so incredibly crazy - at least they did in the articles I read. I'm wondering if more recording devices inside police cars can help the situation. I know there is the dashboard cam, but are there others inside the car that might help shed light on incidents like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:11 am 
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Some police forces have begun putting body cameras on their officers, and preliminarily, it appears to be effective: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/n ... nts-rialto

As for what happened in Ferguson, from what I've read, all the witness accounts seem to more or less agree that the police account of what happened is inaccurate. I don't think there have been any non-police witnesses (and it sounds like there were several people who saw what happened) that have said Mr. Brown tried to get into the police car or push the officer into the car, and certainly none that seem to indicate a shot was fired within the police car by Mr. Brown.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:19 am 
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That's what I've read, too. But I don't want to believe a cop doored a kid, grabbed him by the throat, and shot him before shooting him more as he ran away. That is terrifying and horrible :(. I'm inclined to believe the numerous witnesses as opposed to the police officer, but if that is what happened, oh my god.


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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:28 am 
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I didn't say it was an either or position, but I think it's really important to raise awareness about some of the shitty things that anon is doing. Using baguette as an insult is not ok. Fighting for one group while crapping all over another (a la PETA) is something that needs to be talked about it, and the way a lot of progressive groups such as the Occupy movement, animal rights, etc, stand up for a cause but disrespect women or LGBTQ people or Latinas or is not ok. And too often the people who speak up about it get silenced because the people running the groups are the ones who traditionally have the power anyway and don't want to give it up.

linanil, I'm sure you've also heard about the recent case in NYC and the death of Eric Garner. There's a stat floating around about the police killing someone every 28 hours, but i don't know the source for it. Twitter news can be very useful but also difficult to track down. There was also a good recent article I will try to track down that talked about how juries (specific to Brooklyn) are changing as it gets gentrified. More white people on the jury meant more convictions for people of color despite shoddy evidence because jurors simply believe cops over a 21 year old black guy. Same way that a lot of the press is focusing on the night of looting in Ferguson instead of the large number of peaceful vigils, or the really heartbreaking interviews with Mike Brown's parents.

Pickledtreats, have you by chance read the book Homicide? The tv show was based around it, but I have not seen the show and don't know how faithful it is to the book. It's a really interesting look into the fraternity of the police and although I thought the writer was really enamored with the whole thing, it shows just how fallible and prejudiced police can be, especially when it comes to one of them being in the spotlight for a shooting or some form of corruption.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:29 am 
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Well, that got filtered but y'all know a tasty bread is not the insult that was used but maybe it's something I'll start using.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:37 am 
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pandacookie wrote:
I didn't say it was an either or position, but I think it's really important to raise awareness about some of the shitty things that anon is doing. Using baguette as an insult is not ok. Fighting for one group while crapping all over another (a la PETA) is something that needs to be talked about it, and the way a lot of progressive groups such as the Occupy movement, animal rights, etc, stand up for a cause but disrespect women or LGBTQ people or Latinas or is not ok. And too often the people who speak up about it get silenced because the people running the groups are the ones who traditionally have the power anyway and don't want to give it up.


I agree.

Personally, I really dislike the attitude I see in some activist circles where good work done by an organization is completely written off because another aspect of that organization is "problematic." Should we examine and call out these problematic actions? Yes! Does that mean any group that isn't 100% non-problematic be barred from engaging in activism? I don't think so. Not that that's what you're saying, PC. I just see it a lot, and it bothers me.

I read a book recently that addressed some of the issues that are coming out in the wake of the Ferguson killing, though examined from a slightly different angle. It's called The Divide, by Matt Taibbi, and it contrasts the skyrocketing arrests of poor people (mostly people of colour) for minor crimes and infractions with the complete lack of arrests of white collar criminals for much more serious crimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:15 am 
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pandacookie wrote:
There's a stat floating around about the police killing someone every 28 hours, but i don't know the source for it. Twitter news can be very useful but also difficult to track down.


I heard that statistic, too, and I also heard that it is not 'police officers' but 'authority figures,' up to and including security guards and self-appointed vigilantes (hello, George Zimmerman). Of course, I don't have a source for that either so I guess both of these points are to be taken with a veritable boulder of salt!

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:02 pm 
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I can't find the stat that said the chance of being killed for a black male under the age of 25 is pretty high but the CDC does public reports on leading causes of death. For a black male from ages 15-34, the leading cause is Homicide varying between 35-50%. Compared to white males, where homicide is ranked much lower, topping out at less than 10% in the teen bracket. I think Mike Brown's case is particularly heart breaking because he was young. The LA story struck me because supposedly the guy had surrendered, was on the ground and the cop shot him in the back.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:42 pm 
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pickledtreats wrote:
The militarization of the police in many areas of the U.S. is what is terrifying for me. Gone are the days of the Mr. Rogers neighborhood cop who walks the streets and knows the people living there. Nowadays I am scared off by the combat boots and soldier-like appearance of the police, which indicates something more insidious, as the author posits in that article. I have some friends who are in police forces and they are good people, but as a force the police can be something so dangerous and scary.

The police have always served to enforce racial and class divides. The friendly neighborhood cop may have been a staple in some white middle and upper class neighborhoods, but they have always been the main enforcer to keep minorities and the lower classes in their places and protect the middle/upper class from having to interact with them. Even in my wealthy suburb as a teenager there were still "friendly neighborhood cops" but that was my perspective as a well-off upper/middle class white girl. I'm sure that the Latino and black minorities in the community did not share my privileged point of view.

Yes, the militarization of the police is alarming, but it was probably just as scary for protestors to be staring down a firehose, baton, or the jaws of a German Shepard decades ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
pandacookie wrote:
There's a stat floating around about the police killing someone every 28 hours, but i don't know the source for it. Twitter news can be very useful but also difficult to track down.


I heard that statistic, too, and I also heard that it is not 'police officers' but 'authority figures,' up to and including security guards and self-appointed vigilantes (hello, George Zimmerman). Of course, I don't have a source for that either so I guess both of these points are to be taken with a veritable boulder of salt!

There should be a twitter account that is nothing but confirming or denying sources in news stories. Actual news, not verifying if the Kardashis are divorcing the Zs after an elevator fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Reuters is generally pretty decent.

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:31 pm 
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I just saw this from the Ferguson police chief's wife.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Anonymous declares war on the Ferguson police department
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:41 pm 
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LazySmurf wrote:
I just saw this from the Ferguson police chief's wife.
Image
Whoa. Is that real? Holy sh*t.

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