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 Post subject: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:54 pm 
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I couldn't find a dedicated thread for the shooting at the movie theater during The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO yet, so I wanted to start one. This tragedy has been consuming me and I'm so sad for all the victims. Even the news of Christian Bale's visit to Aurora today brought tears to my eyes. What is everyone else thinking?

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:02 pm 
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This story is what is currently on my mind. Ugh http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/07/24/573441/uninsured-aurora-2-million-medical-bill/

I hate to bring up the forkwad who did this, but I want to know if he's actually screwed up or if he's just messing around (the whole no talking/acknowledging questions thing). He has a Charles Manson type quality to him (completely gone mentally). He is at the age where horrible mental illnesses can suddenly manifest.


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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:08 pm 
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That case really got to me too bastah. His wife just had her baby today in the same hospital where he is fighting for his life. I think this country is seriously messed up if it is legal to buy an assault rifle, yet when some f**cker shoots you with one, you can rack up $2 million in hospital bills because there is no universal health care.

I also was wondering the same things about the shooter since he's appeared in court. He looked completely out of it and when you compare his appearance and mannerisms now with other pictures and videos they've released from a few years ago, it seems his whole demeanor has completely changed. Part of me thinks he cannot possibly be faking it, but anything is possible. The whole thing just grips me on so many levels. I cannot stop thinking or reading about it.

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Last edited by TuxedoCat on Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:14 pm 
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But the weird thing about him being completely out of it is that... he would need a lot of concentration to make those "sophisticated" booby traps and to come up with the whole scheme that he did (all the preparation--the body armor, the gas canisters, etc)


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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:18 pm 
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bastah wrote:
But the weird thing about him being completely out of it is that... he would need a lot of concentration to make those "sophisticated" booby traps and to come up with the whole scheme that he did (all the preparation--the body armor, the gas canisters, etc)

That is the part that is tripping me up too. Absolutely. There has to be some organization of thought to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:27 pm 
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What is really bothering me, beyond the devastation and horror of the event, is how I keep seeing people who try to talk about gun control either told they are being insensitive or that what was really needed was more guns in the theatre. It makes me so god damned angry that people refuse to see the connection between egregiously lax gun laws, a culture that glorifies violence and mass murder.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:31 pm 
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bastah wrote:
But the weird thing about him being completely out of it is that... he would need a lot of concentration to make those "sophisticated" booby traps and to come up with the whole scheme that he did (all the preparation--the body armor, the gas canisters, etc)


If he was in a psychotic mania, it would make sense...coming out of the sleepless nights and mania.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:57 pm 
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kittee wrote:
bastah wrote:
But the weird thing about him being completely out of it is that... he would need a lot of concentration to make those "sophisticated" booby traps and to come up with the whole scheme that he did (all the preparation--the body armor, the gas canisters, etc)


If he was in a psychotic mania, it would make sense...coming out of the sleepless nights and mania.

Another excellent point kittee.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:17 am 
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Schizophrenia could explain it, or dissociative identity disorder.


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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:52 am 
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That theater is ten miles from my house. I'm so lucky that no one I know personally was there, but they easily could have been and that has really shaken me - it's odd feeling so sad and yet so thankful at the same time. There is an incredible amount of love and kindness and giving coming out of this community right now, though, which is a tiny bright spot in what is otherwise so horrific and heartbreaking.


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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:40 am 
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I have 2 sets of cousins that live in Aurora and my first thoughts were of them, especially the college aged daughters of one of my cousins. They weren't affected although my cousin said one of his friends was in the hospital. I also have quite a few friends in the Denver metro area as I used to live there.

It is devastating and I can't imagine what goes through ones head when they plan out something like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:44 am 
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I'm really uncomfortable with trying to label him with a mental illness. It may be he's mentally ill, but being a murderer doesn't automatically mean you're mentally ill. There is no mental illness that turns you into a mass murderer, and mentally ill people are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. There's lots of reasons why he could appear dazed, its not unheard of for killers to feign mental illness (such as Berkowitz claiming he was possessed, which after his conviction he admitted was a hoax), lots of killers do not have a mental illness, and I feel when we attempt to clinicalize violence we can distance ourselves from it. The fact he appears dazed isn't indicative of anything, he just killed and injured a lot of people and that could be affecting his conscious or he's shocked now that its done.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:04 am 
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I think the part that shocks me is how many mass shootings there are and how many get no attention at all. Rachel Maddow did a segment on that and this Australian article did a good summary on that.

At this point it takes something truly horrific like Aurora or the shooting of Gabby Giffords to draw attention to gun violence. Most of it just fades into the background.

Quote:
In the US today, prevention of mass murders by arms control is a lost cause. Mass murder is now so routine in the US that is almost background noise.
''In our country, the mass shootings come so frequently that most of them go by virtually unnoticed,'' Gail Collins wrote in The New York Times. ''Did you catch the one last week in Tuscaloosa? Seventeen people at a bar, hit by a gunman with an assault weapon.'' The answer, of course, for almost everyone, is no. A recent school shooting with multiple deaths rated third-story status in the national TV news and disappeared without trace in a single news cycle. It takes a spectacular outrage or a novel one to get top-line national attention, and the James Holmes massacre was both.

Even the most basic commonsense prudence is now an unacceptable violation of an American's right to bear arms. When the Attorney-General asked for the power to prevent people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, the US Congress answered with a firm ''no''

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:10 am 
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Michael Moore sent out an email last night about this as I think he was appearing on Piers Morgan. he basically repeats his thesis from Bowling for Columbine but I agree with it:

Quote:
1. We Americans are incredibly good killers. We believe in killing as a way of accomplishing our goals. Three-quarters of our states execute criminals, even though the states with the lower murder rates are generally the states with no death penalty.

Our killing is not just historical (the slaughter of Indians and slaves and each other in a "civil" war). It is our current way of resolving whatever it is we're afraid of. It's invasion as foreign policy. Sure there's Iraq and Afghanistan – but we've been invaders since we "conquered the wild west" and now we're hooked so bad we don't even know where to invade (bin Laden wasn't hiding in Afghanistan, he was in Pakistan) or what to invade for (Saddam had zero weapons of mass destruction and nothing to do with 9/11). We send our lower classes off to do the killing, and the rest of us who don't have a loved one over there don't spend a single minute of any given day thinking about the carnage. And now we send in remote pilotless planes to kill, planes that are being controlled by faceless men in a lush, air conditioned studio in suburban Las Vegas. It is madness.

2. We are an easily frightened people and it is easy to manipulate us with fear. What are we so afraid of that we need to have 300 million guns in our homes? Who do we think is going to hurt us? Why are most of these guns in white suburban and rural homes? Maybe we should fix our race problem and our poverty problem (again, #1 in the industrialized world) and then maybe there would be fewer frustrated, frightened, angry people reaching for the gun in the drawer. Maybe we would take better care of each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:33 am 
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This was my favorite piece I have seen about the shooting and it's from the Onion!
Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 pm 
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The Onion's been doing pretty good lately.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:21 pm 
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And the ridiculous lawsuits have begun. Because someone has to pay and we need to blame things. lard.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Oh, I know. Blaming the movie studio and the theater? REALLY? Because going to the movie theater or anywhere else really needs to become like going on a plane.


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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:27 pm 
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They just said on a commercial for the 10 o'clock news "gun sales are skyrocketing after the Colorado massacre, find out how to get YOURSELF locked and loaded"

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
I'm really uncomfortable with trying to label him with a mental illness. It may be he's mentally ill, but being a murderer doesn't automatically mean you're mentally ill. There is no mental illness that turns you into a mass murderer, and mentally ill people are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. There's lots of reasons why he could appear dazed, its not unheard of for killers to feign mental illness (such as Berkowitz claiming he was possessed, which after his conviction he admitted was a hoax), lots of killers do not have a mental illness, and I feel when we attempt to clinicalize violence we can distance ourselves from it. The fact he appears dazed isn't indicative of anything, he just killed and injured a lot of people and that could be affecting his conscious or he's shocked now that its done.

I also read that some people believe that he was in a manic state in the days before the murders and was in the process of coming down from that.

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:56 pm 
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I've been thinking about it a lot too, and I'm glad you started this thread, TuxedoCat. I saw "The Dark Knight" over the weekend and I felt this surreal sense of vulnerability and sadness thinking about Aurora. I've definitely been cringing over some of the discussion in my facebook feed about gun control. I enjoyed this essay from Jason Alexander on the subject: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/if2nht

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:09 pm 
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This incident is truly tragic. But i also really dont like the folks piling on just to exploit it for their anti-gun or pro-gun position and the conspiracy theorists right now are at their worst. I can believe this list of things they have tried to blame this on
Cannabis
Big Pharma
Vicodin
anarchists
Occupy
Tea Party
Democrats
alien escaped from dungeons of the Denver airport
NWO
DARPA
Science
"the liberal way"
Illuminati
govt brain washing
Atheists (he self-described as agnostic actually)
demon possession (I guess thats Christan speak for mentally ill)

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:31 pm 
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I'm also slightly surprised to see no real mention on vegan forums about the fact that he was an animal researcher that worked with finches and hummingbirds as a reason behind his violence (or his part-time job at McDonald's). Im glad so far that we can stay classy.

*edit - I now see that PETA has actually canceled a protest in Colorado out of respect for the victims and families http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/20 ... rotest.php

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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:45 pm 
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bastah wrote:
Oh, I know. Blaming the movie studio and the theater? REALLY? Because going to the movie theater or anywhere else really needs to become like going on a plane.



It's because they teach us in law school to go for the "deep pockets" of money.


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 Post subject: Re: Aurora shootings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:04 pm 
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SkepticalVegan wrote:
This incident is truly tragic. But i also really dont like the folks piling on just to exploit it for their anti-gun or pro-gun position and the conspiracy theorists right now are at their worst. I can believe this list of things they have tried to blame this on
Cannabis
Big Pharma
Vicodin
anarchists
Occupy
Tea Party
Democrats
alien escaped from dungeons of the Denver airport
NWO
DARPA
Science
"the liberal way"
Illuminati
govt brain washing
Atheists (he self-described as agnostic actually)
demon possession (I guess thats Christan speak for mentally ill)

I presume that you saw the Natural News posting about how it was obviously staged as part of a UN effort to strip us of our rights? The next time someone links to that site, I will feel forced to remind them of this.

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