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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:16 pm 
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Does anyone know if they're in Canada yet? I don't like undressing in front of boyfriends, let alone letting a complete stranger see me naked.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:49 pm 
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oops, logged in on the wrong account...supposed to be aaaandrea!


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:53 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
Does anyone know if they're in Canada yet? I don't like undressing in front of boyfriends, let alone letting a complete stranger see me naked.


Yeah, the CATSA website describes the full body scan process and has the same images of the scans that the TSA does, although I'm not sure if they have the exact same technology/process as the US or not. Also, they say people traveling to the states will have priority to go through the scanners...so you might be okay if you're not traveling to the US?

(sorry about the mix up!)


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Nebraskalaska wrote:
The pat down actually sounds a lot worse than the naked xray machine to me.


I think that's th epoint--TSA can say they're not forcing you to expose yourself to radiation and let agents see you virtually naked--but by giving a worse option, they're pretty much coercing people into doing what they'd like. That's why, if you're choosing to opt out, it's important to make sure others can see you getting a pat-down.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:34 pm 
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While it sucks for us, it must really suck for celebrities. They already have no privacy and you KNOW that those images will get leaked


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:42 pm 
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The images aren't saved, so I don't think they'll be leaked...I mean, do they leak x-rays of celebrities' luggage? I would think that would be more interesting than some maybe-nudity.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:42 pm 
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Wow, I really don't care about this. See my titty outline, who gives a shiitake? Or pat me down, have a blast. There must be other people who don't care, or am I missing something?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:46 pm 
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I think this is so wrong. I saw it on the news here, which means that I guess Philly has them. And the news feed showed, at least 4x, footage of the same 3 women getting pat-downs instead of scans. And man alive, were they getting patted down. It was intense gropage. It made me so so uncomfortable to watch. I wish I could safely refuse both options.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:56 pm 
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i can't really care because I have to fly pretty often and I definitely don't want to hold up a line of people who hate airports as much as I do. I'd just prefer to do whatever I have to do to get on a plane and see my family.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:11 pm 
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OH man that johnnyedge blog post is infuriating.http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/ ... tween.html My heart is racing just reading about what he went through and thinking how all the violations of rights going on. And the TSA public letters in response to certain things, and other govt statements, they are laughable. Like most political statements. God TSA makes me so so angry.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:21 pm 
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I fully support this, even though I'm not flying commercially anytime soon. The TSA is getting out of control. Every air carrier passenger is not a terrorist. The TSA have yet to even catch a terrorist. These advanced imaging devices are more harmful than the TSA will admit they are, and they need more testing and evaluation. The intense groping of every passenger who opts out of exposing themselves to these advanced scanners is a serious invasion of privacy.

And we can opt out all we want, but it won't change anything. The TSA does not answer to the passengers. If we want things to change, we need to stop flying. The aviation industry is kind of hurting right now as it is. Loss of ticket sales is the only thing that is going to motivate them to lobby congress to reign in the TSA. At this point, it probably won't take much because air carrier unions are already encouraging their members to opt out.

EDIT: Not that I don't think Opt Out Day won't send a message. It almost definitely will! But a loss in ticket sales will send a stronger message to more powerful entities.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:29 pm 
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I would really like to go back to a world where no one sees me naked without my choosing. I can't even believe that this is a right I have to defend. I would say that I will just boycott flying and drive everywhere, but I would like to be able to travel out of the country someday. I think the opt-out day is a good idea and all, but I doubt these body scanners are going anywhere unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:01 am 
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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I dont care at all about some stranger seeing me naked. They dont even know its me! Its just a naked picture. I occasionally shop at department stores, it happens there too in the fitting rooms. What I might care about is the radiation, but for right now I know nothing about that. you guys also keep saying only big cities have these--Buffalo already has one. I'm pretty sure we're the opposite of a big city. so, they are probably coming to an airport near you soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:28 am 
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But the opt out isn't about your personal level of comfort. I don't care about a nude x-ray of myself either, for all I care I could just text em a boobie shot if it would make me get through the airport quicker, but I recognize that not everyone is as comfortable as me and I'd like for there to be better options for other people.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:32 am 
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For me, it's really been more the radiation issue that's scariest. Has anybody read the April letter from some UCSF science faculty? It's available at http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/12/new-details-on-full-body-x-ray-scanners/

They make the point that while the total amount of radiation seems small when compared to radiation you're exposed to while flying or regular x-rays, etc, that radiation is absorbed by your whole body. The backscatter radiation, though, is absorbed ONLY by your skin, since that's all they're making an image of. Last month the FDA wrote a response letter that basically says "nah, guys, don't worry about it, it's cool," but the UCSF group of professors and doctors have already said they're drafting another letter to point out the errors in that, so who knows! anyways, between all the privacy/rights reasons everybody's been talking about and having a serious ton o' skin cancer in my family, it's enough to make me really uncomfortable with the scanners.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:36 am 
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Man, I'd be totally nervous about going through one while pregnant.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:32 am 
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brian wrote:
I fully support this, even though I'm not flying commercially anytime soon. The TSA is getting out of control. Every air carrier passenger is not a terrorist. The TSA have yet to even catch a terrorist. These advanced imaging devices are more harmful than the TSA will admit they are, and they need more testing and evaluation. The intense groping of every passenger who opts out of exposing themselves to these advanced scanners is a serious invasion of privacy.

And we can opt out all we want, but it won't change anything. The TSA does not answer to the passengers. If we want things to change, we need to stop flying. The aviation industry is kind of hurting right now as it is. Loss of ticket sales is the only thing that is going to motivate them to lobby congress to reign in the TSA. At this point, it probably won't take much because air carrier unions are already encouraging their members to opt out.

EDIT: Not that I don't think Opt Out Day won't send a message. It almost definitely will! But a loss in ticket sales will send a stronger message to more powerful entities.


This is why I wish I didn't live 2,000 miles away from my family. A 3-4 day train trip isn't much of an option for me. Niether is beaming technology.

I also don't give a flying fig whether a stranger (or a whole line of strangers) sees me naked. TSA could make me strip down to my skivvies in front of everyone and it wouldn't be the nudity that bothered me. I'm going to be requesting that they grope me, instead, and that's something I'm far less comfortable with than an x-ray machine, radiation and all. Where the invasion of privacy comes in is treating me like a potential terrorist without probable cause. I have a serious problem with the fact that TSA agents, despite not needing any knowledge of law or due process (much less any test of competence other than following protocol, or any skills in decorum or tact) have the power to behave like cops--hell, I might argue they have a little more power than actual law enforcement, as they don't seem to have to follow the rules of due process. There's something wrong when anyone, civilan or government, has that much unreigned power. The TSA's rules even state that they're allowed to bring a civil suit (which carries a penalty of up to a $10,000 fine) against anyone who is uncooperative--but the wording is so ambiguous, they can pretty much decide on their own terms what constitutes lack of cooperation (even if it's something as simple as asking why I'm being subjected to a search or requesting that said search be done in the open, where everyone else can see what's going on). See: attitude of violator, p. 4.

Further, much of why these machines have been installed is so that Michael Chertoff and his clients can make money.

(I'm digging up links--I'll be back to edit).

This is a big enough problem to me to decide that it's more important to protest than it is to worry about inconveniencing others.

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Last edited by tinglepants! on Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:53 am 
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OK fine, you win, I'm scared of radiation now.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:05 am 
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IsaChandra wrote:
OK fine, you win, I'm scared of radiation now.


Methinks you're being ironic, and not in an Alanis sort of way. But if you're not...I'm pretty sure you're exposed to more radiation by the act of flying, itself?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:14 am 
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OK now I'm not afraid of radiation anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:17 am 
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IsaChandra wrote:
Wow, I really don't care about this. See my titty outline, who gives a shiitake?

I'm the same. I'd much rather the new machines actually, provided there are no risks to health. It's just an outline, it's not really all sexy naked or anything. Each to their own, I understand not wanting to do it but personally I am fine with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:19 am 
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Fee wrote:
Man, I'd be totally nervous about going through one while pregnant.

Yeah really. I know I just said that I don't really care but I would like to know that it is safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:35 am 
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I've gone through them twice and you still get a little pat down from a lady afterward - a few two-finger swipes around the boobs. I just didn't feel like making a stink about it. Airport security stresses me the fork out and I'm one of those people that just tries to make it through. Flying is stressful and the whole security thing makes it even worse.

Clearly I'm resigned to the fact that my privacy disappeared a long time ago


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:06 am 
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I can understand why people are upset about this, but it's not a big enough issue for me to feel like holding up the line or going through any bullshiitake with the TSA people. Airport security is enough of a hassle already.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Veglicious wrote:
Fee wrote:
Man, I'd be totally nervous about going through one while pregnant.

Yeah really. I know I just said that I don't really care but I would like to know that it is safe.

You can get the pat down if your preggers, right?

I guess I don't see this as a violation of privacy because they're doing it to everyone. It seems like a good alternative to the rampant racial profiling. Plus, most people don't have to fly. When I fly I realize that I give up my soul, and it's ok since it's such a privilege in the first place.

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