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 Post subject: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Wears Pleather Undies

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Search for this on google if you want to read a more in depth article about the connection between Communism and punk rock:
Are_the_Kids_United_The_Communist_Party_of_Great_B ritain_Rock_Against_Racism_and_the_Politics_of_You th_Culture

Hello, my name is Joseph. I am a former punk rock enthusiast. I have been into such bands as the Dead Kennedy's, Propagandhi, Minor threat and various other bands. I have noticed that many bands have a political message. I used to hear the bands and enjoy the political message. I used to be politically very far to the left, an anarchist or a socialist or something like that. Of course, it was from listening to all of that music. But, as I have gotten older (I am 27 now), I see that the left wing politics in punk rock was tied to Marxism, something I never really was deeply involved in. Even the music that claims to be "anarchist" is actually really deeply authoritarian and deeply influenced by Marxism. Such is the nature of left wing politics, you never really know if the people who would seem to be most opposed to authoritarian communism actually are, in fact, Communists.

When I read this link, I noticed that the Communist party itself was involved in the production of punk rock music. This made me angry. I am now a born again Christian, I have seen miracles and the reality of God. I used to consider peoples political beliefs a private matter of great significance, and it virtuous to consider others political predicaments. I still believe this, but I see a darker force at work, where the Communists are using music to try and lead young people away from the church and into their movement. They don't seem to care that many people in the punk subculture die of drug overdoses, I personally have suffered greatly as a result of my drug use.

I would like you all to consider the role that you may encourage others to follow a ideology of Marxism (such as that promoted by the band The Clash) that, in fact, has little to do with loving others or helping the poor but actually has everything to do with advancing an authoritarian and nihilistic philosophy.

I understand that most of you will not consciously support the policies of Stalin or Mao or any other Communist nation. Most of the left today is very critical of these regimes. I would like you to consider that perhaps they do this because it is necessary to build their movement. Marxism has never resulted in a Democratic country, Marxism has always led to authoritarianism.

I do not think that you can be a punk and be a Marxist. Punk is about challenging false authorities and overcoming injustice. Marxism is about doctrinaire and authoritarian ideologies that suppress truth and use violence to force people to believe lies. I do not see how any of this can be considered remotely consistent with the punk spirit.

I see the place that I am now, as a Christian committed to social justice to be a far more consistent position with the original punk rock ethos that I once had. I would urge you to consider whether your de facto acceptance of Communism is in fact consistent with your commitment to DIY, free speech, resistance to tyranny, hatred to racism and injustice, etc. I do not think it could possibly be made so.


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:43 pm 
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But what are your thoughts on tipping?

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:52 pm 
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lycophyte wrote:
But what are your thoughts on tipping?

That's some pure Communist shiitake. Tipping, indeed. Don't make me perestroika your asparagus.

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:07 pm 
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I'd like to know more about the Communist party's involvement in the creation of punk rock. Was it like this Threadless shirt?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:15 pm 
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"Because sure, I like David Bowie, but not that much."

"I will take a drugged, sex-crazed, punk rock commie over Mrs. Thatch any day of the week" - Vantine

"I just finished building my Irn Bru cellar!" - Steffers!


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:35 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:43 pm 
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I know this is some righteous spam, but I couldn't help but google 'christian punk' and find the first result


being a total rip-off of one of my favourite (atheist!) bands:

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"Because sure, I like David Bowie, but not that much."

"I will take a drugged, sex-crazed, punk rock commie over Mrs. Thatch any day of the week" - Vantine

"I just finished building my Irn Bru cellar!" - Steffers!


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:51 pm 
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I'm not even sure what we're being spammed with. How am I supposed to know what to buy!?

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:56 pm 
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DrakeRedcrest wrote:
I'm not even sure what we're being spammed with. How am I supposed to know what to buy!?


Buy NOTHING, fascist pig!

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Spam? Punk rock and anarchism was my whole life for years and years. Your culture almost killed me from suicide and drug overdoses. Spam, you've gotta be kidding me.


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Maybe it would be helpful to assume that this ISN'T spam?

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Why is it wrong to consider that it might be possible that someone outside your little cliche might know something that you don't?


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Christians? But only if you're a Communist. I think it's a kinda swap-meet? But only if you're 27 or older. That's when you know stuff.

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"Because sure, I like David Bowie, but not that much."

"I will take a drugged, sex-crazed, punk rock commie over Mrs. Thatch any day of the week" - Vantine

"I just finished building my Irn Bru cellar!" - Steffers!


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Okay but this is a vegan forum. Are you interested in veganism?

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:02 pm 
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geekywhitegirljoan I am interested in veganism. I was a vegan and a vegetarian for some time and would like to go back to it. It is something that I have wanted to do for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Veganism is a tool of the masses.

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"Because sure, I like David Bowie, but not that much."

"I will take a drugged, sex-crazed, punk rock commie over Mrs. Thatch any day of the week" - Vantine

"I just finished building my Irn Bru cellar!" - Steffers!


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:04 pm 
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interrobang?! wrote:
Veganism is a tool of the masses.



Why the sarcasm? How is a sarcastic, non-chalant attitude about the influence of Communism in punk rock consistent with vegan ethics? If someone is against suffering and cruelty, shouldn't they care about the 100 million killed by communists, even if it isn't cool or trendy to do?


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Hmm. Well, punk and drug use don't necessarily go together, so there's that. Infact, a lot of punk circles really embrace being straight edge.

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Is this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:05 pm 
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What is this, another Red Scare?

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Is this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:06 pm 
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So your article is actually what you posted above. And you are telling me that it is an in depth article... can I get some citations please...

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:11 pm 
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I think you will find people willing to discuss veganism here. I don't agree with the logic of your original post and had a totally different experience with punk rock. I find Christianity far more oppressive than left wing politics. But welcome and I hope you find your way back to veganism or vegetarianism.

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:11 pm 
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jstrodel wrote:
interrobang?! wrote:
Veganism is a tool of the masses.



Why the sarcasm? How is a sarcastic, non-chalant attitude about the influence of Communism in punk rock consistent with vegan ethics? If someone is against suffering and cruelty, shouldn't they care about the 100 million killed by communists, even if it isn't cool or trendy to do?

heh. Well, I was editing my post to apologise for pre-judging, but now... I'm getting a 'reds under the bed' vibe. What's wrong with Communism, in theory?

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"Because sure, I like David Bowie, but not that much."

"I will take a drugged, sex-crazed, punk rock commie over Mrs. Thatch any day of the week" - Vantine

"I just finished building my Irn Bru cellar!" - Steffers!


Last edited by interrobang?! on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:11 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
Hmm. Well, punk and drug use don't necessarily go together, so there's that. Infact, a lot of punk circles really embrace being straight edge.



parikapapaya, that is true. But what you are actually saying is this: "Sometimes punks aren't against drug use". I will agree with you that this is true. But that is not a reliable standard for someone growing up. I think it is great that some people are straightedge. God bless them. I am not opposed to that.

I am opposed to the many punks, like myself, which are not straight edge. I knew some people growing up that were, and lots of people that were not. A lot of the people that were had already gone through their drug phase.

I have personally been involved in left wing political organizing, and I have seen how the pro leftists do use drugs to try and get people into their movement. I was at the Young Democratic Socialists convention and they had lots of people getting drunk and hooking up. There was a party afterwards that was sponsered by the organization. Of course, lots of the people there were counterculture types.

So it is true that some punks do not use drugs. And it is true that not all punks are leftists. But it is also true that many punks are leftists and that leftists use drugs and the allure of "freedom" to attract people to their movement. It is ,also true that they aim this at people that are a very young age.

Do you see any problem with this, independent of the Ian MacKay scene? I grew up in Syracuse so I know all about straight edge, we had a band here called Earth Crisis, you ever hear of them? A club called Hungry Charley, actually I was too young for that one, but it was relatively well known. Of course there are straightedge punks. But there are also communists punks, and communist punks that are used by professional left wing organizations to get people into drugs.

I have seen it with my own eyes. Google YDS, I saw Noam Chomsky speak there. They had a party afterwards, lots of people completely drunk out of there mind. They don't care. They don't care at all.

Like I said, I was almost killed by this culture that has no regard for life except to pursue some sort of controversial political cause. If people have controversial political causes, fine, but people still need someone to show them the way to live. Punk shows people a lot of the time how to live a self destructive and dangerous lifestyle. Just ask all the people who have died.


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:14 pm 
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interrobang?! wrote:
jstrodel wrote:
interrobang?! wrote:
Veganism is a tool of the masses.



Why the sarcasm? How is a sarcastic, non-chalant attitude about the influence of Communism in punk rock consistent with vegan ethics? If someone is against suffering and cruelty, shouldn't they care about the 100 million killed by communists, even if it isn't cool or trendy to do?

heh. Well, I wasediting my post to apologise for pre-judging, but now... I'm getting a 'reds under the bed' vibe. What's wrong with Communism, in theory?


Thank you for your apology. :)

Communism advocates a "dictatorship of the proletariat" in which the lower classes are supposed to violently overthrow the government. What this has resulted in is exactly what it describes: tyranny. I could go on and on about the psuedo-science of communism, the fact that it is not falsifiable and cannot make and predictable statements about history, the fact that it criticise religion but makes itself into a kind of religion, the fact that it has dramatically lowered the living conditions of people and promoted tyranny all over the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Communism and punk rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:16 pm 
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geekywhitegirljoan wrote:
I think you will find people willing to discuss veganism here. I don't agree with the logic of your original post and had a totally different experience with punk rock. I find Christianity far more oppressive than left wing politics. But welcome and I hope you find your way back to veganism or vegetarianism.



Thank you for the warm welcome, joan. What about the logic did you disagree with?


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