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 Post subject: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:18 pm 
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http://shine.yahoo.com/beauty/open-lett ... 00311.html

The short of it is that Beyonce dresses too scantily for anyone to look up to. And then girls get pushed into sex trafficking because of it.

I think the majority of comments highlight what makes me uncomfortable about this: many of them, while purporting to agree that a woman is more than what she wears, flat out state that "her husband should not allow her to prance around half naked," or that men want modest women. Because what she wears should be about her, not mens, and not her statement for all womankind.

I do recall reading a critique of the Pussycat Dolls here on the PPK, upset about how they were "empowering girls to hump the stage."

I'd like to do more reading on that fine line between being a sexually secure woman and being sexualized for/by the patriarchy, but my google-fu is failing me.

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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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You know, a lot of criticisms I see of Beyonce I think are really really unfair, you know? Like some feminists treat Lady Gaga like a gift from god, but Beyonce can go on tour with an all WoC band, she was never very public about her relationships, hell she started out in a really "girl power" vocal group, proritized female friendship over hetero relationships...but omg if she wears something scanty or says the word bisque, stop the presses. Not feminist enough. And I say that as someone who isn't even a fan! I also hate that if you're a girl music star, you're a role model. But male stars can get away with anything.

I think there's lots of legitimate critiques of Beyonce's popularity and music, don't get me wrong. But I think there's a lot worse out there right now.

If you want to discuss that fine line...I think it has a lot to do with being sexy for yourself, which I think Beyonce does fairly well (in a safe, conventional way, yes, but her message is often "I don't even need you.") whereas Pussycat Dolls were all about the male gaze; I mean "Do You Think Your Girlfriend is Hot Like Me" just puts down other girls for male attention, and Taylor Swift gets a lot of shiitake for that kind of thing too. I don't like Lady Gaga but I think she pulls off being sexy for oneself well in that she's sexy in such a weird way, its not very cookie cutter and isn't very conventional.

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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:32 pm 
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"That she is a human being with feelings and dreams, perhaps a sister, a mother, a leader, a teacher, a student - ALWAYS - a daughter - all of this can be forgotten." Only if you're a bigot.

This piece is ridiculous, omg.

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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:58 pm 
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I agree with Shy Mox about the fine line. If she's wearing skimpy clothes because she likes it, then good for her. I think it's pretty sexist to tell her she can't show off her body if she wants to. I like to wear sexy, skimpy outfits sometimes. I do it because i like the way i look. I worked hard for my body, and i'm going to show it off if i want to. But i do it for me (or for my man, but i'm pretty sure i care more about lingerie than he does) not to gain attention from others.

I think it's important for adults that are actually a part of kids' lives, such as parents, teachers, aunts, whoever, to act as role models. The truth is that most celebrities probably don't make good models, but they're glorified in a way that makes it easy for kids to look up to them. It is up to parents to take responsibility for kids, and teach them that just because you like an actress or singer, doesn't mean that person is necessarily someone you should aspire to be.

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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:16 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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i am so sick and tired of people who think they can tell women what to wear because of either
1) "the role-model responsibility" - hey, guess what? how you want to raise your kids does not give you the right to tell other people what to wear or how to behave!
2) "it's anti-feminist!" - no, you know what's anti-feminist? you telling other women what they can or cannot do, based on your own beliefs. stfu.
3) "rape!" - yeah, no ones fault but the rapists. claiming otherwise is just rape apologist bullshiitake.
4) "prostitution!" - prostitution is again, not a problem by default. surely there are loads of problematic contexts when it comes to prostitution, but again, it's very anti-feminist to tell women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

the trafficking-thing is a new one though.. does this woman even know how trafficking works? it's not like evil men lure girls in with the promise of a glamorous lifestyle. generally it's a a group of organized criminals who offer a job to someone living in poverty in another country and then engaging them in sex slavery, while keeping them indebted. the real problems here are the fact that people live in POVERTY and the messed up POWER STRUCTURES and ORGANIZED CRIME. and the fact that anyone would ever buy sex from someone who obviously hasn't decided that prostitution was how they wanted to earn money. (i mean, please please please buy sex from women who are prostitutes because they want to earn to live a glamorous life, not from trafficked people).

also, the whole judgemental "imagine if YOUR kids grew up to be like beyonce!"-argument. well, guess what? if my kids grew up to be like beyonce, i'd be proud and love them just as much as if they grew up to be anything else. i hope that i grow up to be like beyonce. i also like showing off my boobs a lot, and i would love to rock a see-through glitter bodysuit.

this thread needs some robyn:


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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:51 am 
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Everything smoothie said +1

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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:21 am 
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My beef with beyonce & the like is more along the lines of capitalist/consumerist shiitake. I don't see how e does is worse than what other pop stars do?
I do sometimes wonder... she's black, "good-looking" and actuallys self-indentifies as a feminist and acts sexy & makes positive comments about her own body, maybe that's just scarier to a lot of people?

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that some things she does/says are harmful in ways and it's fine to critisize them, but I doubt that most people put it in a proper context..

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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:49 pm 
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I'm not super familiar with Beyonce's music but from what I have heard of it, I'd say most of her lyrics are pretty....classy? Confident? About having independence and demanding respect? And again, I'm not too caught up in celebrity stuff but I'd say she's one of the more classy and respectable women in that realm. She's more than what she wears or doesn't wear.

eta: Smoothie said it best.

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 Post subject: Re: An Open Letter To Michelle Obama re: Beyonce
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Beyonce can do whatever the hell she wants, she's a grownass woman. Her music sucks, but that's no fault of feminism or lack of feminism or whatever.

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