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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:54 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
Jigglypuff wrote:
It is illegal to grab someone or block them so they can't walk away. If what happened wasn't staged, I would like to see her charged with whatever is appropriate (assault? criminal restraint?) and banned from the campus for the rest of the semester. She needs to face consequences for violating someone else's rights.


Generally, that type of behavior is considered battery (though depending on the context can be assault). It's not interfering with anyone's rights. It's just unlawful behavior.

It's good to know that not being touched by a stranger uninvited is not a right.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:52 pm 
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Teresa wrote:
jordanpattern wrote:
Jigglypuff wrote:
It is illegal to grab someone or block them so they can't walk away. If what happened wasn't staged, I would like to see her charged with whatever is appropriate (assault? criminal restraint?) and banned from the campus for the rest of the semester. She needs to face consequences for violating someone else's rights.


Generally, that type of behavior is considered battery (though depending on the context can be assault). It's not interfering with anyone's rights. It's just unlawful behavior.

It's good to know that not being touched by a stranger uninvited is not a right.


Take it up with the founding fathers?

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:57 am 
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So here's something I found interesting. I was reading the news this morning about (yet another) racist/homophobic texting scandal in the SFPD. The officer is of Chinese descent and some of his texts used anglicized Cantonese (Cantonese spelled out phonetically rather than written in Chinese characters). Here's the part of the article that gave me pause about how the media is reporting this:

Quote:
Lai, who was identified as Chinese by his attorney, makes several references to “hock gwai,” apparently a misspelled reference to the Cantonese “hak gwai,” a derogatory phrase for African Americans.


Obviously there is a whole discussion to be had about the upsetting things Lai wrote, which I find in no way acceptable, especially for someone purporting to represent, protect, and serve our community. But a few things jumped out to me when I read the above:

1. This is not 'misspelled,' because it's not being written in the alphabet/script that is the traditional written form of Cantonese/Chinese in the first place. The anglicization of Chinese (or, for that matter, Arabic, Hindi, Hebrew, Japanese, etc.) uses phonetic approximations of latin alphabet sounds.

2. The arrogance of an English-language publication "correcting" a Cantonese-speaker's "misspelled" anglicization of his own language is stunning!

3. Although the only 'correct' way to spell Chinese words is to use Chinese characters, there is a generally accepted formula to anglicizing Chinese languages in order to effectively convey the correct tone (and, hence, meaning) to be used. I was taught by native Cantonese speakers to anglicize the word (hock/hak) as "hohk"* in order to properly convey that the 4th tone (I think, there are 6 total and it's been a few years) is used with this word.

It seems like a little thing, couched in an article about a very big thing. But at the same time, San Francisco (and the larger bay area) has an enormous Chinese population, the majority of whom (at least until recent years) are Cantonese speakers. It seems like this wouldn't be the kind of thing that would be prohibitively complicated to fact-check, because it's certainly going to be noticed. I hardly even speak any Cantonese and I noticed it. It just seemed paternalistic in a way- "look at this dum dum, he can't even get being racist right!"


*"hohk gwai" literally means "dark ghost," and is similarly derogatory as "gwai lo" ("ghost folk", for Caucasians). Taken separately the words have no offensive meaning, and it's not uncommon to name your dog or cat "hohk dzai", or "darkie"- it's just not the same meaning and context in Cantonese as in English. But of course put together they're meant to be rude and offensive- I personally don't feel as slighted by "gwai lo" (or the gender-specific "gwai mui") because it's not like white people have a history of being systematically oppressed or abused by the Chinese (quite the opposite), and in Hong Kong especially I'm acutely aware that there was European imperialism in my lifetime. But 'hohk gwai' is meant, and should be taken, as an offensive insult.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:31 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
2. The arrogance of an English-language publication "correcting" a Cantonese-speaker's "misspelled" anglicization of his own language is stunning!


Not 100% similar as it doesn't have the same racial context but with additional gender BS: The Guardian pulled a similar stunt a few days ago, correcting a female French mayor's grammar:

Quote:
In the crisis centre, officials jump to their feet as “Madame La Maire”, as she insists on being known (Le Maire is grammatically correct), arrives.


http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/ ... ne-hidalgo

(Saying Mme la Maire, i.e. using the gender of the person who holds the function and not the grammatical gender of the word mayor (masculine because the function was historically masculine) has been widely done by female mayors for over 30 years, often as a political statement)


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:36 pm 
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They've edited the article, it now reads

Quote:
Apparently misspelling ‘bak gwai,’ a Cantonese slur for blacks, Lai states ‘Bunch of hock gwais shooting each other.


which makes the reporting agency look even stupider, because this typo ('bak' instead of 'hak') changes the phrase to "white ghost." So now they're correcting both his "spelling" and the actual meaning of his words. JROUNALISM: your doin it rite

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:21 pm 
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Aelle, I can only imagine the stir that caused in France, given the historical relations between France and England!

I wrote an annoyed crotchety get-off-my-lawn letter so I can officially stop boring the PPK with it. Every time I write to the newspaper, even through email, I feel like Abe Simpson.

Spoiler: show
To Whom it May Concern:

I’m writing in reference to your reporting on the racist/homophobic text scandal involving former SFPD Officer Jason Lai.

When I first read the story on KRON4's website this morning, the following section jumped out at me:

Quote:
Lai, who was identified as Chinese by his attorney, makes several references to “hock gwai,” apparently a misspelled reference to the Cantonese “hak gwai,” a derogatory phrase for African Americans.


What struck me initially was the incorrect assumption that anglicized Cantonese (or other Chinese dialects) can be ‘misspelled.’ In order to anglicize Chinese, the sounds of the language are phonetically approximated using the Latin alphabet. As such, there can be multiple ‘correct’ spellings of an anglicized Chinese word or name (e.g. Mao Zedong and Mao Tse Tung both refer to the same person). Strictly speaking, the only ‘correct’ way to spell hock/hak/hohk is to use the Chinese character for the word.

However, what really left me breathless was the arrogance of an English-language publication in presuming to correct someone speaking their own cultural/ethnic/familial mother tongue.

Later in the day, it appeared the article had been edited. The section concerning the use of the derogatory phrase ‘hohk gwai’ now reads:

Quote:
Apparently misspelling ‘bak gwai,’ a Cantonese slur for blacks, Lai states ‘Bunch of hock gwais shooting each other. Too bad none of them died. One less to worry about.”


This does nothing to clarify the points raised concerning the original wording; rather, it only serves to highlight KRON4's woefully inadequate understanding of or investigation into the most rudimentary basics of the Cantonese language. The typo quite literally changes the meaning of the word from ‘dark’ or ‘black’ (hohk) to its opposite, ‘white’ (bak or bok). Which makes the criticisms over Lai’s “misspelled” Cantonese all the more painfully unaware and ironic, don’t you think?

I find it hard to believe that in a metropolitan area known for a thriving, historic, and influential Chinese-American community, not a single Cantonese speaker could be located to consult on these points before going to publication. In reporting on Jason Lai’s prejudices, KRON4 and Emily Kirschenheuter embarrassingly revealed a few of their own.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:40 pm 
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That's a great letter, Erika. Not even a whiff of "old man yells at cloud."

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:28 am 
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I wanted to share this because it is pretty good. Black artists especially have been undercut as long as their art has been sold. I also think of Prince when I read this article who went to a variety of measures to be in control of his works. This was shared off the Nina Simone Facebook page who obviously doesn't agree with the recent Nina Simone movie.

https://mic.com/articles/141680/beyonc- ... .forBL5zKj

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:49 am 
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Friends have been re-posting information about prize-winning tech which can turn manual ASL signs into speech. The 2016 version is not perfect, but a million times better than the 2010 version I was also linked to ad nauseum. I have tried to point out how it is imperfect, at best, for the job it tries to do, but this Deaf journalist/researcher nailed it: http://www.theestablishment.co/2016/05/ ... else-does/

The article is kind of long for an op-ed, but articulates beautifully how Deaf people are amazing communicators -- and could be better, if only hearing people were a little less privileged about spoken communication (which sounded reasonable to me, because introvert!).

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:23 pm 
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Because ridiculous laws are ridiculous, people are becoming more and more emboldened to "identify" teh scary transgenderz that are invading their restrooms to sully The Youths. This woman was minding her own in the bathroom in a WalMart in Massachussetts when another patron told her she was "disgusting" and that she didn't belong there. After some confusion, she realized she'd been verbally attacked because she has short hair and was wearing a baseball cap.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Because ridiculous laws are ridiculous, people are becoming more and more emboldened to "identify" teh scary transgenderz that are invading their restrooms to sully The Youths. This woman was minding her own in the bathroom in a WalMart in Massachussetts when another patron told her she was "disgusting" and that she didn't belong there. After some confusion, she realized she'd been verbally attacked because she has short hair and was wearing a baseball cap.


The irony is, it seems like this bigot thought Aimee was a trans man, but if that was the case, then she (or as the bigot thought, he) WAS in the right bathroom according to this forked up law. I don't think the people in support of these laws even understand what the fork it is they actually want.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:44 pm 
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They want different people to go away.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:37 pm 
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lepelaar wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Because ridiculous laws are ridiculous, people are becoming more and more emboldened to "identify" teh scary transgenderz that are invading their restrooms to sully The Youths. This woman was minding her own in the bathroom in a WalMart in Massachussetts when another patron told her she was "disgusting" and that she didn't belong there. After some confusion, she realized she'd been verbally attacked because she has short hair and was wearing a baseball cap.


The irony is, it seems like this bigot thought Aimee was a trans man, but if that was the case, then she (or as the bigot thought, he) WAS in the right bathroom according to this forked up law. I don't think the people in support of these laws even understand what the fork it is they actually want.


I didn't even think this through, you're totally right. What a dumb jerk.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:53 pm 
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I've actually heard the argument that transgender people shouldn't use public restrooms, period. Because that's not insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Yeah there are certainly people who have said that on various articles about Target.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:20 pm 
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I'm assuming that these people are OK with the single toilet stall-less thingies, but yeah. I propose everyone just dump their waste on these folks' heads. Seems the logical way to handle things.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:24 pm 
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I'm so confused by the bathroom uproar. I've been using women's public restrooms for the entire 40 years of my life and I don't think I've ever seen any nudity. People go into stalls, do their business and leave. What the hell to lawmakers think is going on in there?


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Sangria wrote:
I'm so confused by the bathroom uproar. I've been using women's public restrooms for the entire 40 years of my life and I don't think I've ever seen any nudity. People go into stalls, do their business and leave. What the hell to lawmakers think is going on in there?

Long list of Republican sex offenders:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 89x1709387

Fact: More Republican Politicians Caught In Bathroom Sexual Misconduct Than Trans People
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/04/13/g ... nder-folk/


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:04 pm 
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Tigon wrote:

Fact: More Republican Politicians Caught In Bathroom Sexual Misconduct Than Trans People
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/04/13/g ... nder-folk/


That makes a lot more sense now. And I'm not surprised at all by this statistic from that article:

". . . just as Republicans wallow in their Islamophobic fear and use Islamic terrorism to justify hate and repression despite the fact that an American is four times more likely to die at the hands of a right-wing terrorist than an Islamic one . . ."


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:23 pm 
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There's that glib-but-with-a-kernel-of-truth saying that homophobia is a man's fear that he could be treated the same way he treats women. I think the bathroom furor (and similarly, Islamophobia) is similarly a reflection on people's fears of their own darkest impulses rather than of plausible or realistic scenarios. "Well, I know I would slaughter their unborn and bathe their blood, so they can't be up to any good..."

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:57 pm 
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This is a pretty interesting article with links to other resources. It also mentions something I mentioned previously, about Rick Bayless being the authority in Mexican cooking
https://bitchmedia.org/article/short-re ... on-hearken

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:49 pm 
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So here is something nuanced...

What does color really mean and how would you define yourself or how would others define yourself? I can't remember the original context but I said to someone who a knowledge of Persian culture (but not Persian themselves) about Persians being brown. The person told me that would be something they would most likely find offensive as they consider themselves white or caucasian. I personally had no clue but I've only had a bit of exposure here and there to those from the middle east in general, other than some Jewish friends in college.

Anyway, Leonardo DiCaprio was cast as a Persian poet (Rumi) in a movie. I saw an article saying that Rumi was definitely brown and hashtag #RumiWasntWhite. The person who initially made the comment wasn't Middle Eastern. Now of course I know what we mean by white here and that is of European descent. Yes a middle eastern person should definitely be cast and there are plenty of options. But I also wonder if those trying to say that have potentially caused some offense on their part in protesting whitewashing of movies.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:16 pm 
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DeCaprio has not been cast, his name was bandied about by the producers (?) of a possible forthcoming movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:37 pm 
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ahh ok, maybe they will come to their senses, maybe

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:42 pm 
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Well, the (totally justified) backlash from even that speculative interview they gave will hopefully send a message!

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