| FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:33 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1379 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 56  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:32 pm 
Offline
Fair trade, organic mistletoe
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 3518
Location: Toronto
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
There's a story unfolding here that really makes me think of this thread. boring story even more boring, there is a queer dance party in Oakland called Ships in the Night. On February 15, they posted this message on their Facebook page:

Quote:
"if you are *cis* straight & thinking of coming to Ships In The Night, please consider that you are taking the place of a queer person. ‪#‎realtalk‬ ‪#‎takingupspace"‬


they expanded on the sentiment on their blog:

Quote:
This past year the Ships crew and patrons have been experiencing the changes and shifts that gentrification (among other factors) have had on our communities and events. Gentrification in the Bay Area has influenced the queer community and we can all see it in the crowd at the party. We have noticed an increasing amount of white faces, a lot less of Black and Brown queers, more *cis* straight-identified people coming to the queer dance party; specifically many of our Old Oakland crew and friends are not attending the party. There is also an overall vibe of individual needs being more important than the community's needs and a lack of cognizance of personal space and spatial entitlement. We have had a lot more incidences of people getting overly intoxicated alone, people being pushy at the bar trying to buy a drink, people elbowing their way to the dance floor to claim their spot, constant microaggressions, etc.

more here: http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/201 ... nation.php

What do you guys think? I'm personally more inclined to address problematic behavior in person at the event than to issue a blanket statement saying "if you're white, cis, or straight-but-not-narrow, don't come". But then again, I am white, cis, and straight-but-not-narrow, so while I definitely consider myself an ally, I'm not in the position to dictate what's going on. I just think this kind of harsh divisiveness leads to things like race/gender/sexuality police in a society where these lines are becoming less and less defined.

A friend of mine organizes events for queer and two-spirited people of colour and indigenous people and they had something similar recently and it got REALLY ugly. Basically, white people kept showing up to these events explicitly meant for queer folks of colour and then making it all about their hurt feelings when they were asked kindly to leave. I got into it with a few people on facebook who feel like it is their right as white queer people to attend any-and-all events aimed at queer people. The organizers HAD been dealing with it on a case-by-case basis but what that meant is that this event meant to be a space for QTIPOCs ended up being a place where all of their energy and time was spent dealing with people who shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Which is my longwinded way of saying I have no problem with it and have seen how exhausting it is to deal with "allies" taking over your space. And that I think it is perfectly okay for marginalized folks to have spaces and events that are meant for them.

_________________
"I'd rather have dried catshit! I'd rather have astroturf! I'd rather have an igloo!"~Isa

"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:35 pm 
Offline
Smuggling Raisins
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 321
Well-said j-dub. I think that part of being a good ally is being able to recognize when your presence is helpful and when it's intrusive. Or at the very least not making a big deal of it when you're politely corrected.

_________________
She eats a paleo diet, just like the whiskey-and-bacon-eating australopithecans before her. - annak


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:45 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 22108
Location: Cliffbar NJ
I think this is a great piece by someone who grew up white and very poor, talking about her reaction to being called "privileged."
http://thefeministbreeder.com/explainin ... te-person/

Quote:
Years ago, some feminist on the internet told me I was "Privileged."
"THE fork!?!?" I said.

I came from the kind of Poor that people don't want to believe still exists in this country. Have you ever spent a frigid northern Illinois winter without heat or running water? I have. At twelve years old, were you making ramen noodles in a coffee maker with water you fetched from a public bathroom? I was. Have you ever lived in a camper year round and used a random relative's apartment as your mailing address? We did. Did you attend so many different elementary schools that you can only remember a quarter of their names?

So when that feminist told me I had "white privilege," I told her that my white skin didn't do shiitake to prevent me from experiencing poverty. Then, like any good, educated feminist would, she directed me to Peggy McIntosh's 1988 now-famous piece, "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack."

After one reads McIntosh's powerful essay, it's impossible to deny that being born with white skin in America affords people certain unearned privileges in life that people of another skin color simple are not afforded. For example:

    "I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented."
    "When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is."
    "If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race."
    "I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time."

If you read through the rest of the list, you can see how white people and people of color experience the world in two very different ways. BUT LISTEN: This is not said to make white people feel guilty about their privilege. It's not your fault you were born with white skin and experience these privileges. BUT, whether you realize it or not, you DO benefit from it, and it IS your fault if you don't maintain awareness of that fact. I do understand McIntosh's essay may rub some people the wrong way.

There are several points on the list that I felt spoke more to the author's status as a Middle Class person than a White Person. For example:
    "If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area, which I can afford and in which I would want to live."
    "I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me."
    "I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed."
    "If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege."

And there are so many more points in the essay where the word "race" could be substituted for the word "class" which would ultimately paint a very different picture. That is why I had such a hard time identifying with this essay for so long. When I first wrote about White Privilege years ago, I demanded to know why this White Woman felt that my experiences were the same as hers when no, my family most certainly could not rent housing "in an area which we could afford and want to live." And no, I couldn't go shopping without fear in our low income neighborhoods.

....

I, maybe more than most people, can completely understand why broke white folks get pissed when the word "Privilege" is thrown around. As a child, I was constantly discriminated against because of my poverty and those wounds still run very deep. But luckily my college education introduced me to a more nuanced concept of Privilege; the term Intersectionality. The concept of Intersectionality recognizes that people can be privileged in some ways and definitely not privileged in others. There are many different types of privilege, not just skin color privilege, that impact the way people can move through the world or are discriminated against. These are all things you are born into, not things you earned, that afford you opportunities others may not have.

And listen, recognizing Privilege doesn't mean suffering guilt or shame for your lot in life. Nobody's saying that Straight White Middle Class Able-Bodied Males are all a bunch of crassholes who don't work hard for what they have. Recognizing Privilege simply means
being aware that some people have to work much harder just to experience the things you take for granted (if they ever can experience them at all.)
....

Intersectionality allows us to examine these varying dimensions and degrees of discrimination while raising awareness of the results of multiple systems of oppression at work.



I think its important to realize that it isn't an either/or system of privilege - as she says, all that seeing privilege allows you to do, is to then examine the systems of oppression at work (and there are many) and hopefully work to change them to allow everyone to have equal access and equal opportunity.

j-dub I really liked your post, thank you.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

THROW A forking YAM IN THE OVEN ITS forking CHRISTMAS - LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:14 am 
Offline
Plays The Sims 2 religiously
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:20 pm
Posts: 8564
Location: Portland, OR
j-dub summed up the idea pretty well in response to the queer dance night. What I can tell you from my own personal experience here in Portland, is that time and time again, once a queer dance night is around long enough, it slowly but surely becomes less and less of a queer space. I won't touch a majority of the dance nights here in Portland anymore, once you encounter a couple of bachelorette parties getting their kicks from hanging with the "fabulous gays", you're pretty done with the whole debacle. Many queer dance nights stop running after a year or two because it becomes increasingly too much of a problem. It becomes something too big, that you cannot just deal with on a case by case basis in-person. Don't ask me why, but another thing that seems to come hand-in-hand with when parties get to these points (with increasing numbers of straight people), is also increasingly ugly intoxication. I'm talking vomit, lots of broken glass, and a lot of rude PDA kind of behavior. No, I can't say for sure it's the straight people doing all those behaviors, but the atmosphere over time just starts perpetuating that.

I can see that wording would be hard for someone like you, though, Erica. I mean, what if you had some close friends that were queer and wanted to go out to that party, should you just stay home alone? That seems pretty harsh. If there was a way to make it seem restricted to queer folk and their plus ones, I think that would be better, but that just starts getting logistically complicated!

_________________
i would schmear marmite on a moist scrotum for Mars. - interrobang?!
"Not everything." ~ mumbles (1973-2013) - mumbles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:43 am 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 22108
Location: Cliffbar NJ
Thanks for sharing your experience Mars! The bit that stood out to me in Erika's post was about the "constant micro-aggressions" - I really like the piece I posted above differentiating that you don't have to be consciously intending to show bias to still create an environment that makes someone from a marginalized group feel othered or less safe. http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/02/microaggression.aspx

I used to go to a really great lesbian dance club in NYC with my lesbian friends, and I loved it because it was a place to just go and dance and not get hit on by guys. Except that the first time that a girl started to grind on me, I was uncomfortable enough to just take off and leave. And while I didn't mean to be a jerk, if you're LGBT identified and going to a queer space, I'd imagine that you'd like to be able to go relax and hopefully meet someone nice and go home with them, not to have some straight girl get freaked out and run away. Because that is what the rest of the world outside the club is like for someone without straight privilege - with needing to be circumspect and worrying about freaking someone out if you read their signs wrong. So without intending to be a jerk, I did commit an act of microaggression that made the space slightly less safe, even for just one person. I'd never go to a queer space that wasn't explicitly open to allies - even going to a place like The Monster in the Village which is full of straight people wanting to visit a "fun gay bar" seems disrespectful, in the same way that going to a neighborhood like The Tenderloin and gawking at people would be (from Erika's post in another thread).

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

THROW A forking YAM IN THE OVEN ITS forking CHRISTMAS - LisaPunk


Last edited by Tofulish on Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:43 am 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:13 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: NYC/Schenectady, NY
I liked this comic a friend posted on FB about intersectionality and privilege.

http://www.robot-hugs.com/privilege/

_________________
If a milkshake is going to change the world then it should be at least be an Oreo one. - daisychain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:03 pm 
Offline
Smuggling Raisins
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 321
blondiefk wrote:
I liked this comic a friend posted on FB about intersectionality and privilege.

http://www.robot-hugs.com/privilege/

That's so good. I <3 Robot Hugs!

_________________
She eats a paleo diet, just like the whiskey-and-bacon-eating australopithecans before her. - annak


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:10 pm 
Offline
TOTALLY CRADICAL
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 7570
Location: Smugville, CA
Tofulish wrote:
in the same way that going to a neighborhood like The Tenderloin and gawking at people would be (from Erika's post in another thread).


It was actually in the Castro, which makes the gay-gawping all the more inexplicable and offensive. But I'm surprised you remembered my story!

THANK YOU for posting that excerpt. It really spoke to a lot of the issues my friend and I were butting heads about and explained what I was trying to explain to him but in a far more eloquent manner. I agree that "race" often gets used where "class" might be more appropriate, and it's important to remember, as this author points out, that racial privilege can easily be offset or eclipsed by a lack of economic or educational privilege.

_________________
"I get people straight up declaring "This isn't vegan" probably because it's not made of kale and tears." ~vixki
Sews Before Bros
Norton's Movie Maps


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:17 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3902
Location: It's hot. All the time.
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
There's a story unfolding here that really makes me think of this thread. boring story even more boring, there is a queer dance party in Oakland called Ships in the Night. On February 15, they posted this message on their Facebook page:

Quote:
"if you are *cis* straight & thinking of coming to Ships In The Night, please consider that you are taking the place of a queer person. ‪#‎realtalk‬ ‪#‎takingupspace"‬


they expanded on the sentiment on their blog:

Quote:
This past year the Ships crew and patrons have been experiencing the changes and shifts that gentrification (among other factors) have had on our communities and events. Gentrification in the Bay Area has influenced the queer community and we can all see it in the crowd at the party. We have noticed an increasing amount of white faces, a lot less of Black and Brown queers, more *cis* straight-identified people coming to the queer dance party; specifically many of our Old Oakland crew and friends are not attending the party. There is also an overall vibe of individual needs being more important than the community's needs and a lack of cognizance of personal space and spatial entitlement. We have had a lot more incidences of people getting overly intoxicated alone, people being pushy at the bar trying to buy a drink, people elbowing their way to the dance floor to claim their spot, constant microaggressions, etc.

more here: http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/201 ... nation.php

What do you guys think? I'm personally more inclined to address problematic behavior in person at the event than to issue a blanket statement saying "if you're white, cis, or straight-but-not-narrow, don't come". But then again, I am white, cis, and straight-but-not-narrow, so while I definitely consider myself an ally, I'm not in the position to dictate what's going on. I just think this kind of harsh divisiveness leads to things like race/gender/sexuality police in a society where these lines are becoming less and less defined.


It really sounds like the organizers are trying to distract attention from what the real issues are. That last sentence is about assholery, which is not exclusive to any one group.

Quote:
It's true that Ships does have a space issue, however. It takes place at The New Parish, which is roughly the size of a breadbox. And like every popular Bay Area queer dance party, long lines abound, many give up or don't get in, and those who do get in face a packed space and still more agonizing lines at the bathroom and bar. Instead of addressing these legitimate concerns -- by, say, switching to a bigger venue, hosting more frequently than once a month, ramping up security for those who feel unsafe, etc. -- Ships organizers, half of whom are white, instead chose to issue a hostile proclamation based on blanket race and identity assumptions in the guise of political uprightness.

_________________
A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:24 pm 
Offline
Dying from Nooch Lung
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:15 pm
Posts: 3245
If I could just make up the official rules of queer dance parties, they would be this.
Groups of straight people shouldn't go to queer dance parties.
It's fine for straight people to go with their queer friends as long as they're not gawking and aren't offended or entertained or otherwise weird when they are flirted with/hit on.
It is, however, 100% fine to not be ok with inappropriate advances/touching/people not leaving you alone when they're asked to, of course, like it always is. But eww weird someone of the same gender is into me is not allowed to be a part of it.
BACHELORETTE PARTIES FOR WOMEN MARRYING MEN ARE NOT ALLOWED. OBVIOUSLY. MY GOD WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS.

_________________
"No one with hair so soft and glossy could ever be bad at anything." - Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:03 pm 
Offline
Mediocre Tart
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:55 pm
Posts: 4858
Location: Tenement. Scotland. Europe.
There are gay clubs around here that have rules that on busy nights (so, Saturdays, mostly) they will turn away straight people. And who is determined to be straight is purely based on who is deemed to be straight by the bouncers (usually straight men) on the door that night. Which... is just so much bullshiitake. Basically it means that any femme women get kb'd.

S'rock, this made me laugh, because SO MUCH. I mean, I can't even get started with this because all the stories I have.
strawberryrock wrote:
BACHELORETTE PARTIES FOR WOMEN MARRYING MEN ARE NOT ALLOWED. OBVIOUSLY. MY GOD WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS.

_________________
"I will take a drugged, sex-crazed, punk rock commie over Mrs. Thatch any day of the week" - Vantine

"I just finished building my Irn Bru cellar!" - Steffers!

"Forsooth! Wanker" - Desdemona


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:05 pm 
Offline
Dying from Nooch Lung
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:15 pm
Posts: 3245
interrobang?! wrote:
There are gay clubs around here that have rules that on busy nights (so, Saturdays, mostly) they will turn away straight people. And who is determined to be straight is purely based on who is deemed to be straight by the bouncers (usually straight men) on the door that night. Which... is just so much bullshiitake. Basically it means that any femme women get kb'd.


That is definitely forked up. You don't get to decide who's queer by what they look like!

_________________
"No one with hair so soft and glossy could ever be bad at anything." - Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:10 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 22108
Location: Cliffbar NJ
strawberryrock wrote:
BACHELORETTE PARTIES FOR WOMEN MARRYING MEN ARE NOT ALLOWED. OBVIOUSLY. MY GOD WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS.


They do it because they see it as a fun, safe, space where they can dance and have fun without attracting a group of creepy guys who will follow them all night, so that they have to spend all their energy fending off unwanted advances rather than interacting with one another and having fun. If you're a woman at many straight clubs, you'll often feel like prey, while at a gay club, you don't expect the guys to be into you. I cannot count the number of times I've left a club early because it was the only way to stop some insistent guy from humping my leg every time I turned around.

The problem is that you're co-opting someone else's safe space and using it as your own, and making it less safe for the original group who set it up, which isn't cool.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

THROW A forking YAM IN THE OVEN ITS forking CHRISTMAS - LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:27 pm 
Offline
Dying from Nooch Lung
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:15 pm
Posts: 3245
Tofulish wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
BACHELORETTE PARTIES FOR WOMEN MARRYING MEN ARE NOT ALLOWED. OBVIOUSLY. MY GOD WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS.


They do it because they see it as a fun, safe, space where they can dance and have fun without attracting a group of creepy guys who will follow them all night, so that they have to spend all their energy fending off unwanted advances rather than interacting with one another and having fun. If you're a woman at many straight clubs, you'll often feel like prey, while at a gay club, you don't expect the guys to be into you. I cannot count the number of times I've left a club early because it was the only way to stop some insistent guy from humping my leg every time I turned around.

The problem is that you're co-opting someone else's safe space and using it as your own, and making it less safe for the original group who set it up, which isn't cool.


I get why straight women choose gay clubs but the idea that anyone could be so blind to the privilege they have in BEING ABLE TO GET MARRIED WITHOUT IT EVEN BEING A POLITICAL ISSUE at a GAY CLUB is insane to me.

_________________
"No one with hair so soft and glossy could ever be bad at anything." - Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:46 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 22108
Location: Cliffbar NJ
Well, that is the nature of privilege, you know? You don't have to see what other people are dealing with because its not part of your experience in the world.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

THROW A forking YAM IN THE OVEN ITS forking CHRISTMAS - LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:19 am 
Offline
Brain Made of Raw Seitan
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:58 pm
Posts: 1268
Location: chicago
Additional queer dance party rule: if you're a straight dude, you can dance with me for a song or two if you're a good dancer, but DONT'T TRY TO PICK ME UP. I'm trying to pick up ladies, not dudes, duh!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:41 am 
Offline
Should Write a Goddam Book Already
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:39 am
Posts: 1032
Location: Sweden
I like your rules, Strawberryrock. When I was young and stupid (before I turned into the marvel of tact and grace that I am now) I went to a lesbian club with a group of straight friends (I'm bi). I don't remember why. Because we were feminists?

_________________
I tend to hook up with people who give me chocolate, but I fail to see how this is a bad thing./tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:46 am 
Offline
Should Spend More Time Helping the Animals
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 6208
Location: Toronto, ON
About 6 years ago a group of acquaintances wanted to go out dancing and invited me along. They ended up going to this gay club (as far as I know this group of people were straight). So I went with them and the gay club was 90% filled with straight girls (kind of like the bachelorette parties mentioned above). I remember there was one gay couple dancing and a bunch of these girls were gawking at them and giggling. what the fizzle? Looking back, that's really sad that the club was taken over like that. It was in a mid-size city and there weren't a lot of LGBT+ spaces, and the ONE club had been taken over by straight girls.

_________________
I like my bagels like I like my men - big and covered with earth balance & nooch. - Bunniee

http://veganforthewin.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:43 pm 
Offline
Seagull of the PPK
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 10097
Location: Bananaland
amonik wrote:
When I was young and stupid (before I turned into the marvel of tact and grace that I am now)....

I shudder to think about so many things I did before I turned into the marvel of tact and grace that I am now. And I bet there are still plenty of shudders left to come!! Still, small improvements.

_________________
Buddha says 'Meh'.--matwinser
James Joyce doesn’t give a twopenny damn, but Marie Kondo does. Oh, bother. --J O'Donogue, JT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:20 pm 
Offline
Wears Durian Helmet
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 852
blame Jonathan Richman:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:47 pm 
Offline
Brain Made of Raw Seitan
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:58 pm
Posts: 1268
Location: chicago
Of course I, as a white artist, get a key to the restaurant so I can come in and finish up my mural painting while the rest of the regular staff has the day off the day before they open (even though I've only been working with these people for a week and they don't really know me), but the (hispanic) cleaning crew has to have someone come and unlock the place for them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:18 am 
Offline
Heeeerrrrree's JACKY!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:39 pm
Posts: 5108
Location: the Eug
I am having trouble responding to someone who posted that "appropriation is not a big deal, everyone does it". Because the whole point to her posting it was so that she could claim something that is not hers.
How do I tell her she is wrong, or at the very least she should look at why she got so defensive?

_________________
Don't mind my breasts and vagina, I'm a gay man.---Idatetatooedguys.

"Tots: the universal food band-aid... better than a mother's kiss. Healin' wounds since 1954." Meggs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:19 am 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:44 pm
Posts: 1448
Location: Jungles of America
kfad wrote:
I am having trouble responding to someone who posted that "appropriation is not a big deal, everyone does it"... How do I tell her she is wrong?

So anything commonly done is okay? Murder, rape, etc? She's claiming she has a completely relativistic morality (or no morality at all rather). Strange.

The golden rule (or just "not being a hypocrite") says you shouldn't do things to others you don't want done to you. I guess you could just steal her stuff and see if she's okay with that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:29 am 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 22108
Location: Cliffbar NJ
What kind of appropriation are you talking about? Its interesting that she acknowledges appropriation in the first place, which means that you at least are starting with a level of understanding for your conversation.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

THROW A forking YAM IN THE OVEN ITS forking CHRISTMAS - LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding Privilege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:39 am 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:02 pm
Posts: 1933
Location: Spokane, WA
Tofulish wrote:
Well, that is the nature of privilege, you know? You don't have to see what other people are dealing with because its not part of your experience in the world.

I like to mention height discrimination as an example in this context, not just because it affects me personally, but because it's both ubiquitous and seldom acknowledged. But it turns out there's a significant demonstrated correlation between height and one's chance of getting hired or promoted, chance of getting married or having children, lifetime income (the average income difference between someone my height and someone 6'2" over one's working lifetime comes out to about a quarter million). Studies have shown that people unconsciously associate short stature with immaturity, insecurity, and incompetence. It's reflected in our language, too: you "look up to" someone you respect, and "look down upon" someone you don't. To be confident is to "stand tall." A bitter person is "petty" or "small." There's a good summary in an article Jonathan Rauch wrote for the Economist a while back: http://www.jonathanrauch.com/jrauch_art ... nish_last/

I bring it up because when I've mentioned it even among (taller) liberal folk who I'd expect would know better, I've had it dismissed as insignificant, something you can just overcome with a positive attitude. So it's made me a lot more aware of when similarly dismissive things are said in the context of other forms of discrimination, and to be more aware of my own thought processes when I think those things myself.

_________________
"All PPK gamers should put on their badge of shame right now. You will never leave the no-sex thread." - Vantine
"I'm so glad my prison of principles has wifi." - Abelskiver


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1379 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 56  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer