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 Post subject: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:21 pm 
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personally, if I were editor-in-chief of CNN, the headline would read "Fred Phelps sucks corks in hell," because who doesn't love a good Exorcist throw-back?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/20/us/westbo ... ?hpt=hp_c2

Ultimately it is a little sad- sad that he was so terrified of Teh Gay (methinks the lady doth protest too much) that he dedicated his pathetic little life to it, and sad that he leaves an entire family of brainwashed idiots to carry on his hatred.

But not that sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:31 pm 
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If I were the editor-in-chief at CNN, there'd be no headline. Give this sick, sad, ugly* old man the attention he deserves: none.

Good riddance, indeed.

(I do like your headline, though.)

*Not a comment on his physical appearance, but on who he was as a person.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:00 pm 
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Yeah, I can't take the high road about WBC. However much this twistd individual suffered prior to his death, I can't believe it was enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:27 pm 
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My first reaction to this news was "ABOUT forking TIME."

I can't muster any kind of sympathy here. Good riddance.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:31 pm 
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I am so conflicted. I think we should be better than Westboro Baptist Church and show compassion, even for someone we disagree with. But on the other hand, I hope that his family learns that the pain they feel at seeing their father and grandfather lambasted on the internet is the same pain that they cause when they protest at funerals, and it is horrible and should stop. And I hope that without its poisoned head, this hateful organization can stop making other people suffer.

He was a horrible person and I'm glad he's not around any more. Rest in the flames of Hell motherforker!

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:37 pm 
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So David Gerrold (gay SF writer) pointed out that Phelps actually inadvertently did gays a pretty big favor-- he put a face and a name on rabid homophobia:

Quote:
Fred Phelps was once a dedicated civil rights lawyer, taking on cases that no one else would.

Somewhere he made a wrong turn. He set out to hurt people and then sue them for being hurt. History will know him only as a deranged old bigot. He wasted his chance to make a difference.

And yet, at the same time, he did make a difference -- he became one of the greatest allies the LGBT community ever had. By putting a face to homophobia, by demonstrating its malevolent insanity, he became a part of the national conversation. He became the best example of a bad example that anyone could have hoped for.

He made it possible for America to see that hate made people ugly. And a lot of Americans were repelled enough to consider that maybe not only Phelps was wrong, but the ideas he represented were as well.

Thanks, Fred. Now, go to Hell.


So yeah. I guess we'll see if the WBC continues without him.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Well Shirley Phelps has been running the show for a while, so I don't know that they are going anywhere terribly soon.

I am trying to focus on the fact that one less person full of hate is here to contaminate the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Yeah, one of the articles that came out when his son said he was at death's door said he'd been excommunicated and hadn't been with the WBC for about a year. So obviously they don't need him to carry on their hateful agenda.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:36 pm 
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I think Shirley was kicked out too.

They weren't deranged enough, I guess?

(And I'm not conflicted on this. I'm not pointing at his grandkids and laughing about their dead grandpa, but the guy was a hateful scumbag who gleefully devoted the last chunk of his life to making the world a worse place.)

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:24 pm 
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The world has certainly not lost anything worth having, and I'm fundamentally irreligious, so I don't believe in rewards, punishments, or lessons when we die. It seems at least as likely as any other scenario that we just stop existing, which makes it that much worse that someone would devote the short time they have to sucking on such an extravagant level, and on spreading so much misery, often to people who were already in pain. On some level I feel like being that horrible a person must be its own punishment, especially if you realized at the end that you had blown the whole thing and were out of chances. And as much as Phelps hated other people, he was hated in return, and in the end he was even rejected by the horrible "church" he invented. Poetic justice? Absolutely. But what a miserable, pathetic, shameful way to waste a life.

On the other hand, at least that whole "gay rights" thing has been squashed, right?

http://www.theonion.com/articles/fred-p ... /?ref=auto

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:31 pm 
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monkeytoes wrote:
If I were the editor-in-chief at CNN, there'd be no headline. Give this sick, sad, ugly* old man the attention he deserves: none.

Good riddance, indeed.

(I do like your headline, though.)

*Not a comment on his physical appearance, but on who he was as a person.


Yes, this. For two reasons. One, it gives them exactly what they want. Two, they teach the children that the outside world hates them and that anyone who is showing them kindness or friendship is lying to them. It helps to keep them in line if they even think of a different life. So by showing them hate, you're just re-enforcing to the kids what they've learned. It was so hard for the ones who left to do so, but they did it, and anything that would make it easier for others to leave should be done.

There are a couple of documentaries about the church, and Steve Drain's daughter wrote a book after she was kicked out.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:01 pm 
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I heard an interview on CBC the other day with one of his sons who left the church the day he turned 18, and never talked to them since. He said they were taught all that hateful stuff from a very young age and grew up with a ton of violence. So while on the one hand I want to say "ding dong the wicked phelps is dead!" on the other hand that made me feel kind of sorry for him. It must just suck so bad to live an entire life filled with so much terrible anger and hate. I mean, not enough to really feel sorry for him, but, it gave me pause to think about. His son said he really was sincere in what he believed, which isn't an excuse but it just makes you wonder like what the hell happened to him to make him so virulently hateful?

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:11 pm 
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I understand that people are having a hard time not frothing at the mouth over his death. But I feel like falling into anger, and happiness about the death of others, is in itself a bit too much like Phelps himself.

I have been inspired seeing a lot of people on the internet today that are making the choice to donate to worthwhile charities in his name. I'm thinking about giving a small amount to the Matthew Shepard foundation in Phelps name myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:29 pm 
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leonardo wrote:
I understand that people are having a hard time not frothing at the mouth over his death. But I feel like falling into anger, and happiness about the death of others, is in itself a bit too much like Phelps himself.

Yeah, I've seen that sentiment around. But really, my celebration of the death of a man whose singular mission in life was to spread a message of hate and bigotry by way of protesting the funerals of murder/hate crime victims does not make me anything like him.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:33 pm 
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I think the thing that made me feel happy about him passing is the hope that he and the Westboro Baptist Church might not show up to protest other servicemen and women's and other people's funerals.

I can't imagine how hard it must be to have lost a loved one and have the WBC make a circus of what should be a time to say goodbye, your last moments with someone you loved, surrounded by your friends and family. What they did to people was horrendous.

Thanks Solipsnation for the info - I had no idea he was a civil rights lawyers. I wonder what happened to make him so hateful

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Fred Phelps hadn't attended a protest himself in a long time, and if his family really kicked him out last summer they're probably all IDGAF about it. And while I don't think it's wrong to be glad that he's dead, the church doesn't die with him. So really, nothing died but a sad, lonely old man.

If anyone wants to get lost in a rabbit hole, you can watch the two BBC documentaries about them on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pxE6_VY8aM

The follow up, two members had left since then and Megan and Grace left after. I know one of their male cousins also left, but I think that was made less of a deal about because he wasn't vocal in the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF1oAsgzchA

And here is an article that is only a few weeks old about what Megan and Grace have been doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:01 pm 
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It took me awhile to find this one, but here is a long account of what it was like having Fred Phelps for a dad. He literally dragged his children back home and beat them. It's really no surprise that a monster made more monsters.

https://blank.org/addict/

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The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear


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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:33 am 
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I probably wouldn't be up for doing this myself (I am not That Good), but this is really kind of awesome.

http://melbourneer.com/2014/03/22/the-w ... from-them/

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:39 am 
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Desdemona wrote:
I probably wouldn't be up for doing this myself (I am not That Good), but this is really kind of awesome.

http://melbourneer.com/2014/03/22/the-w ... from-them/


That is very very inspiring (for me anyway!) I really like what George Takei said on FB "I take no solace or joy in this man's passing. We will not dance upon his grave, nor stand vigil at his funeral holding "God Hates Freds" signs, tempting as it may be.

He was a tormented soul, who tormented so many. Hate never wins out in the end. It instead goes always to its lonely, dusty end."

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:32 pm 
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I agree that hatred is the wrong response. But let's not engage in a false equivalency. Saying "The guy was a monster and the world is better with him dead" is not the same as devoting your life, Fred Phelps-style, to demonizing and terrorizing people you disagree with.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:15 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Ultimately it is a little sad- sad that he was so terrified of Teh Gay (methinks the lady doth protest too much)
Do you know, I completely and totally hate when people say "he's homophobic so he's probably gay secretly" like it's some kind of stab at someone. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but that is something that I consider homophobic. While I understand that envy of self-acceptance and inability to process ones own feelings in a way that come to any positive outcome can lead to people turning into hateful shitbags, saying "he was probably gay himself" is snide. And I don't like it when people use female term like "lady" to refer to gay men; not because I have a problem with women or female identity, it's that it passively supports the idea that gay men are unmasculine and, by comparison, lesbian women are unfeminine whereas actually people should just be allowed to be people et cetera et cetera. Though I do appreciate that it's a good quote from the Bard and I know that you didn't mean anything negative or hateful. *Gulliver continues to mutter incoherently for a good five more minutes about challenging gender identity through language and other such manners.*

He was poopcunting dickbutt, and lets leave it at that.

* I apologise for any swears that didn't get filtered.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:35 am 
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Gulliver, I didn't in any way mean to imply that I would take some kind of snide joy in Phelps 'secretly' being gay, that him being gay would be some kind of come-uppance, or that being gay is something to be ashamed of or ridiculed for (that was Phelps' job, not mine). My statement was that it was sad that he hated an abstract group of people so much and sad that his terror of gay people ultimately curtailed his quality of life- he automatically removed himself from potential friends, future family, and a wealth of life experiences only to trade it in for fear and hatred. And that's sad. The possibility that he could have been gay himself (and I'm only making that suggestion based on a wealth of anecdotal similarities, ie, Larry Craig, Ted Haggard, etc) was not a comment along the lines of "that would serve him right," but "how sad that he was so terrified of the possibility of him finding men attractive that, instead of considering it and exploring it, he turned his self-hatred out towards the rest of the world."

As for the use of 'lady', I was literally quoting Shakespeare. I did not choose to refer to Phelps as a 'lady' because I think it's insulting, emasculating, or somehow makes him gay or "more" gay. I was simply employing a well-known idiom, one that is used in any instance where someone is life-alteringly obsessed with rejecting something they claim to hate, to the point where you wonder why they spend so much time and energy on something so allegedly distasteful to them. As Shakespeare meant it, it is a person who so passionately argues for one point of view that their attitude and fervency actually convinces people to the other side of the issue. In Phelps' case, I think it's very fitting.

I do apologize for not being clear enough in what I meant to say, and in using language that was upsetting to you. But I did not, for a second, imply or feel any of the things you have pointed out. If they were conveyed regardless, please accept my apologies and know that it was not my intent.

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 Post subject: Re: Good riddance, Fred Phelps
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:35 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Gulliver
No harm done. It just hit me in a venty mood and I went off on one at the world in general. It wasn't aimed at you and I'm sorry if I upset you.

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