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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:04 am 
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Well I just meant that in the past 20 years or so that we've seen the right become more of a religious right and now a racist, religious right and we've seen things like women's issues crumble away due to the fact that Republicans give those on the religious right a platform due to them trying to 'win' the 2 party system.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:07 pm 
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linanil wrote:
Well I just meant that in the past 20 years or so that we've seen the right become more of a religious right and now a racist, religious right and we've seen things like women's issues crumble away due to the fact that Republicans give those on the religious right a platform due to them trying to 'win' the 2 party system.


But don't you think that's due at least in part to changes in the evangelical Protestants becoming more politically organized in this country, as well as the fact that about one in four adults in the US is an evangelical now? Those demographics would be felt no matter what kind of political system we had. Whether they would be able to have an impact on a woman's right to choose would depend on the size of their party but it doesn't have to be above 50% for them to have impact. And a parliamentary system doesn't guarantee that women's issues get a fair shake. Ireland has one and abortion is only legal there when the mother's life is at risk.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:03 pm 
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My mom, a lifelong democrat, really, really hates Hillary. I was surprised to see her post something Anti-Trump, a speech by Biden. Not that she has ever been pro-Trump or would I expect her to be, but I was surprised to see her post something Anti-Trump due to her hate of Hillary. She lives in a blue state though so it doesn't matter but I still don't expect her to vote for Hillary either.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:56 am 
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I get that people are completely brainwashed by Trump and somehow think he's a good choice and I think after all this time I'm at the point where I'm not super surprised that these people exist anymore. But I REALLY don't understand how people can support Gary Johnson or Jill Stein. Like, they are LAUGHABLE as presidential candidates. Maybe they would have some validity if they were running for a local representative position or maybe your middle school PTA but as PRESIDENT? ARE YOU F-ING JOKING? *I* am more qualified than them.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:51 am 
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Yea, it's such a great time for an actually accomplished third party candidate to make a huge effort. The Green Party is just plain awful in this country. THIS WAS YOUR MOMENT!


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:58 am 
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It would be a shame though if a third party candidate was actually the most qualified, because no matter how much we want to change it, it's still a 2 party game. That's why protest votes or votes for someone who isn't the D or R nominees are so upsetting - they are just wastes. That's not what's going to change the system, and it's not what is going to make whatever that voter is trying to say heard.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:44 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:03 pm 
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RandiJM wrote:
It would be a shame though if a third party candidate was actually the most qualified, because no matter how much we want to change it, it's still a 2 party game. That's why protest votes or votes for someone who isn't the D or R nominees are so upsetting - they are just wastes. That's not what's going to change the system, and it's not what is going to make whatever that voter is trying to say heard.


I don't know. I think this is the election that a well qualified 3rd party candidate might have a real shot. I know I'd consider it, and many of my friends would as well. Most of us are voting for Clinton because she's light years better than Trump, but none of us are necessarily excited about that vote. If there was someone else - maybe a moderate who could appeal to both the left and the right, with solid and executable ideas, with experience in politics and a strong and diplomatic demeanor - maybe they could have been the one to change things.

I mean, I doubt it. I'm jaded enough to believe that this has been Clinton's election for years and nothing was ever going to really change that. But the dreamer in me wants to believe it may have been a possibility.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:52 pm 
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What would a moderate third party look like? Someone who was lax on preserving Obamacare or wasn't entirely pro-choice.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:41 pm 
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I think "well qualified" is the sticking point when it comes to third-party candidates. It's not enough to be smart and thoughtful (And I'm not sure Johnson or Stein hits that mark, either.) You need to be experienced. Really, you need to have held elected office, which is a real hurdle for the Greens. And right now, even with major-party candidates we're always told are historically unpopular, Johnson and Stein are polling at a combined 10% or so. I can't even begin to imagine a third-party candidate who is experienced and charismatic enough to appeal to voters by the millions.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:10 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
I can't even begin to imagine a third-party candidate who is experienced and charismatic enough to appeal to voters by the millions.


Yeah. From a charisma and experience standpoint, if Teddy Roosevelt couldn't win back the presidency while running as a third party candidate, I don't know who can.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:42 pm 
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Dylan wrote:
What would a moderate third party look like? Someone who was lax on preserving Obamacare or wasn't entirely pro-choice.


I don't see the point in a centrist party. Hillary is already a moderate candidate. If a new party were to come along and offer something new for the predominantly millennial voters supporting Stein and Johnson (and evidence exists the Johnson responses in polls represents younger voters who want to protest vote), I feel sure that the majority of those millennials would prefer that party be leftist rather than moderate, with someone more like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren as its leader.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:47 am 
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Yes, Johnson enjoys a lot of support among young voters, but... why?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2 ... hnson-list

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:04 am 
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Jumping in to report a clever thing a friend of mine said: Trump is neo-fascist (far, far right), Hillary is the "new" Republican, where did all the progressive options go?
Also, how the hell did the Republicans manage to push "centrist" to "old school Republican" instead of .. actual center?

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:02 am 
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lutin wrote:
Jumping in to report a clever thing a friend of mine said: Trump is neo-fascist (far, far right), Hillary is the "new" Republican, where did all the progressive options go?
Also, how the hell did the Republicans manage to push "centrist" to "old school Republican" instead of .. actual center?


I disagree that Hillary is the "new" Republican (despite what Maureen Dowd says). She's more liberal on many issues (especially women's issues etc) than Obama was. http://realtimepolitics.com/2016/06/04/ ... res-proof/

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:16 am 
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FootFace wrote:
Yes, Johnson enjoys a lot of support among young voters, but... why?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2 ... hnson-list


Many of them don't know where Aleppo is either?

Since geography was removed from the curriculum, teaching my map unit is very difficult. I can't, for example, ask them to find the latitude and longitude of Australia. I have to teach them where Australia is first. (Real example encountered my first year teaching)

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:18 am 
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Is it too early to start the countdown for Cory Booker (CONGRESSIONAL VEGAN SUPERHERO) and Elizabeth Warren's joint 2020 ticket?

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:36 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
lutin wrote:
Jumping in to report a clever thing a friend of mine said: Trump is neo-fascist (far, far right), Hillary is the "new" Republican, where did all the progressive options go?
Also, how the hell did the Republicans manage to push "centrist" to "old school Republican" instead of .. actual center?


I disagree that Hillary is the "new" Republican (despite what Maureen Dowd says). She's more liberal on many issues (especially women's issues etc) than Obama was. http://realtimepolitics.com/2016/06/04/ ... res-proof/


Thanks so much for that link! I had heard that when Hillary and Obama were in the senate together, she voted to the left of him, but I didn't have a link to show to people who argue otherwise based on feelings rather than data. And now I do.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:13 am 
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Hillary Clinton is definitely a liberal to the left of Obama if killing half a million Iraqi children counts as being liberal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:14 am 
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That article seems to assume that 'liberal' and 'hawk' are mutually exclusive terms. That isn't the case, and Clinton's time as Secretary of State, her actions in Honduras (the duplicitous attempt to play down the brutality of that coup and her own role in it), and her full-throated embrace of Kissingerian foreign policy is enough to cement her reputation as a hawk in my mind. I mean, is there a military intervention in that last 20 years that she wasn't in favor of? She doesn't seem to learn from her 'mistakes'. In contrast to Iraq, she has 'no regrets' about our involvement in Libya. Obama himself calls that intervention the biggest mistake of his presidency.

In the 90s the Clintons--both of them--embraced that New Democrat label, which I mostly understood to mean "Republican Lite." The Republicans have perhaps moved too far to the right to make that charge today, but I consider her to be Nixonian, and not just in terms of her politics.

It's just lucky for the Democrats that she's running against a clown.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:09 am 
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Well and also she stated early on that she wanted to go into Syria. I'm like, have we had a military intervention in the last 20 years or so that we've said 'glad we have did that'?

Also, I guess because of the debates, I've seen a lot of discussions about Hillary's emails again and her supporters claiming she did nothing wrong, as evidenced by the fact that she wasn't convicted of a crime. The legal system not thinking someone would ever do something and thus not having a law against it, isn't the same as what she did was perfectly ok. Especially after she provided guidance to her own staff not to send emails on non government systems. It shows an incredible lapse in judgement and makes her look suspicious. Lucky for her she is running against someone who has also shown an incredible lapse in judgement.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:23 pm 
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You guys. Watch it. SNL parody of the debate:

https://youtu.be/-nQGBZQrtT0


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:11 pm 
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ScooterDiva wrote:
You guys. Watch it. SNL parody of the debate:

https://youtu.be/-nQGBZQrtT0


So good. So painfully accurate. Alec Baldwin is freakishly good at being Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:25 am 
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Yeah, Alec Baldwin was uncanny as Trump. I guess he has deep wells of rage to tap into for that performance.

But it was all about the day bow bow video. Probably the best thing SNL will do all season, so just watch that and you won't have to sift through 30 hours of unfunny game show, cable access television, and commercial parodies. Good enough that for a beautiful moment or two, I forgot that we were even having this train wreck of an election.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:14 am 
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Oh I thought the Family Feud skit was fing pitch perfect. Every single detail was so perfect and accurate.


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