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 Post subject: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:09 pm 
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Flat Chesty McNoBoobs
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http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/au ... 1&iref=BN1

This makes me so angry and sad for all the people whose deaths could have been prevented by vaccinations.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Godlee said the study shows that of the 12 cases Wakefield examined in his paper, five showed developmental problems before receiving the MMR vaccine and three never had autism.

Arghhh! That's awful! And it's all about the money!
I don't understand why someone didn't question any of this when his results couldn't be replicated by anyone... even himself!


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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:25 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

This makes me so angry and sad for all the people whose deaths could have been prevented by vaccinations.


And the worst part is that the initial (fraudulent) report was SO widely publicized that it has been and will continue to be very difficult to change public beliefs about the dangers of vaccination. I work in perinatal mental health, so I've been following this issue for a long while. The paper was retracted over a year ago if I'm remembering correctly, and so far it's been very frustrating and scary to see how widely the fake results have spread. It's so hard to change false beliefs that are based on fear-mongering like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:28 pm 
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superherogirl wrote:
jordanpattern wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

This makes me so angry and sad for all the people whose deaths could have been prevented by vaccinations.


And the worst part is that the initial (fraudulent) report was SO widely publicized that it has been and will continue to be very difficult to change public beliefs about the dangers of vaccination. I work in perinatal mental health, so I've been following this issue for a long while. The paper was retracted over a year ago if I'm remembering correctly, and so far it's been very frustrating and scary to see how widely the fake results have spread. It's so hard to change false beliefs that are based on fear-mongering like this.


Yeah, you put it very well. People will probably keep pointing to this study, even now that it's been found not just wrong but fraudulent.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:30 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
This makes me so angry and sad for all the people whose deaths could have been prevented by vaccinations.


I think that the number of people not getting vaccinated is small enough for this not to be a huge issue-there's too many people that are vaccinated for diseases to spread much through the population. It's still fairly disgusting, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Meggs wrote:
I don't understand why someone didn't question any of this when his results couldn't be replicated by anyone... even himself!



Exactly. It's unbelievable it took over a decade for the study to be retracted.

I know so many parents who have been swayed not to vax by the autism link, but it's a topic that gets emotional so fast it's really hard to sort out these mis-truths from the facts before everyone has got their defenses up.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:36 pm 
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superherogirl wrote:
The paper was retracted over a year ago if I'm remembering correctly, and so far it's been very frustrating and scary to see how widely the fake results have spread. It's so hard to change false beliefs that are based on fear-mongering like this.

I remember this happening and didn't realize it was still being debated.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:40 pm 
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StepIntoTheLight wrote:
I think that the number of people not getting vaccinated is small enough for this not to be a huge issue-there's too many people that are vaccinated for diseases to spread much through the population. It's still fairly disgusting, though.

Remains to be seen. Every disease has a different threshold for herd immunity, some are quite high. The article points out that measles vaccinations in the UK have dropped as low as 80% in recent years, which is below the threshold number for measles (Wikipedia puts it at 83-94%, citing the CDC and WHO). There's no reason to believe that herd immunity will protect us from an outbreak in that case, and the problem is by no means contained; people will go on peddling this nonsense for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Didn't they discredit him 6 years ago or so? This is new information? He admited it?


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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:53 pm 
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graffitipassion wrote:
Didn't they discredit him 6 years ago or so? This is new information? He admited it?

The paper was partially retracted six years ago by most of its authors due to the revelation of Wakefield's conflict of interest.

What's new now is that there's strong evidence of intentional fraud.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:18 pm 
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just mumbles wrote:
graffitipassion wrote:
Didn't they discredit him 6 years ago or so? This is new information? He admited it?

The paper was partially retracted six years ago by most of its authors due to the revelation of Wakefield's conflict of interest.

What's new now is that there's strong evidence of intentional fraud.


Right. Sorry - I tried to indicate that in the title, but it was too long. It's one thing for a study to be wrong. It's another altogether for it to be fraudulent.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:20 pm 
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I don't think it will make a difference. Some people believe that vaccines are bad with a religious fervor. Facts will not deter them. The parents involved in the San Diego measles outbreak were not deterred.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Disinformation is so frustrating, especially when it's about something so serious.

My response (unless I'm in an argumentative mood) to anti-vaccine folks is to point out that even if what they claim was true, their child would have a better chance of suffering harm by riding in the car/playing in their own home/etc. than they would by getting vaccinated.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:24 pm 
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I immediately thought of all the internet arguments that could have been avoided.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
I don't think it will make a difference. Some people believe that vaccines are bad with a religious fervor. Facts will not deter them. The parents involved in the San Diego measles outbreak were not deterred.

I don't think any dogmatists will be persuaded, but they might have a harder time persuading others. There's the possibility of limiting the damage, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:25 pm 
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The most recent studies have I have seen have shown the highest cases of autism in people who live near major highway, freeway etc (though this might have been a California study)... as a parent of a autistic child, I don't know what caused it, I am prone to think it is genetic, because my wife and I both have a kid with our ex partners and neither of them have autism, but our daughter together does.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:33 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
I don't think it will make a difference. Some people believe that vaccines are bad with a religious fervor. Facts will not deter them. The parents involved in the San Diego measles outbreak were not deterred.

I agree. I know a woman who has 5 children who I don't think have received any vaccines. They all came down with whooping cough a few months ago, which is again becoming a prevalent disease in the U.S.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:07 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
just mumbles wrote:
graffitipassion wrote:
Didn't they discredit him 6 years ago or so? This is new information? He admited it?

The paper was partially retracted six years ago by most of its authors due to the revelation of Wakefield's conflict of interest.

What's new now is that there's strong evidence of intentional fraud.


Right. Sorry - I tried to indicate that in the title, but it was too long. It's one thing for a study to be wrong. It's another altogether for it to be fraudulent.


Yup, and even the news of it being intentional started to come out about a year ago, though it wasn't publicized very well.
This issue really gets my blood boiling because it's just one of many messages to parents telling them that their decisions have irreparably damaged their children and this one's really scary and has far reaching consequences.
Also because there are a lot of people who think that psychologists are just making all of our stuff up, and here's one example of just that!


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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Jenny McCarthy didn't help much either. You can't help but wonder how many people were swayed by her celebrity and her insistance that vaccines caused her son's issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:25 pm 
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Hopefully this will lead to better research into what is causing the autism epidemic.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:49 pm 
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ugh i remember when i was in college i got into an epic debate with a mom style kind of lady who hated vaccines.


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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:27 am 
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This won't make any difference to the Anti-Vaxers. It'll just be another sign that Big Pharma would rather sell vaccines than actually keep people healthy, and have thus discredited the ONE MAN WHO DARES SPEAK THE TRUTH.

This, rather than the obvious and supportable conclusion (he was a fraud with his own commercial interests), will be what Anti-Vaxers decide is The Truth because Anti-Vaxers are...

Well, I'm about to be judgemental, so I'll stop there. I'd love it if the Anti-Vax movement fell apart overnight, but I expect that ten or fifteen years from now, there will still be kids getting whooping cough and other easily-preventable diseases because their parents are what I am very charitably going to refer to as "uninformed."

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:35 am 
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Scientists have been saying for years and years that they have been unable to corroborate Wakefield's findings. They weren't able to change a lot of minds, I don't think. To many, many people, Wakefield's conclusions are Truth, whether they're true or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:45 am 
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Yeah. But look on the bright side--those people will eventually die.

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 Post subject: Re: Study that linked autism to vaccines was fraudulent
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:22 am 
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just mumbles wrote:
Yeah. But look on the bright side--those people will eventually die.

gigity


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